Tighten up the bottom end on my roadster

[siggy14]

I have the angled and straight

Do you notice a difference in sound between the two?

My first thought would be that the straight is bassier. It could be because the internal volume is slightly larger due to no slant. But I think it has a lot to do with the fact that speakers aren't pointing up at you. They point at your lower body making you hear less of the highs and mids and more of the low end. As low end is more omnidirectional. At a distance the differences seem to disappear which enforces my thought that the differences are more because of the speakers not pointing up at you.

I have a friend that is a mesa boogie artist and he has owned them all, he did a test where he mic'd up a mesa 2x12 and a trad 4x12 and an slant over sized and what he found was, when close mic'd with a 57 the difference in sound was so slight it was not even worth owning all three cabs. He sold them all except the slant oversized.

This is his bands facebook page which has a link to their home page which I cant get to... Dang government filters.

https://www.facebook.com/FoolsGameBand?ref=stream#!/FoolsGameBand/timeline

 

[JCDenton6]

^ Your friends band is really good btw!

That's been my experience as well, hard to tell the differences between the Traditional cab and Recto cab mic'ed.

Still would like to try a Traditional cab though.

 

[firmani99]

Siggy, That's really good to know! I've wondered how they differed when behind a mic.

 

[siggy14]

^ Your friends band is really good btw!

That's been my experience as well, hard to tell the differences between the Traditional cab and Recto cab mic'ed.

Still would like to try a Traditional cab though.

They are good sounding, he use to be in a band division that my other friends are in but he did not really want to tour (do shows) anymore so he left. Noodles on this board is in Division now, he took Matt's spot. I am better friends with the guy from Division and know Matt more in a passing or talking on forums and I also sold him the slant over sized cabinet.

I currently own a traditional slant that sounds so good, broken in just nice and I also own a Oversized slant/straight version. Depending on the style of music I am playing depends on the cab I am into.

 

[afu]

I have a 3 Channel Dual, so it's a little bit different, but I think the same kind of remedies apply.

I don't like a boost pedal going in, because the compression makes everything too "in-your-face" for me. The alternatives I've found are:

Depending on the channel, roll the bass counter-clockwise until it seems to disappear and then bring it back up to taste.

Raw mode with the presence maxed and the mid a touch back from noon. The gain can be turned way up for an old school "metal" distortion; Sabbath, Priest, etc..

Using the tube rectifier took a lot of the resonance out of Modern mode. It removed some of the scooped sound.

I like to liberally apply presence and treble. Some complain about the rasp, but making the upper frequencies more dominant makes the lower frequencies fill out the sound without being swamped by it. Besides, the DR series is kind of like a fuzz pedal built into an amp. Rasp is it's bag, baby. I'm currently getting a Muff into a Fender vibe (Modern) and a fuzzy Plexi on steroids (Vintage) by doing the things listed above.

 

[knotts]

I have a 3 Channel Dual, so it's a little bit different, but I think the same kind of remedies apply.

I don't like a boost pedal going in, because the compression makes everything too "in-your-face" for me. The alternatives I've found are:

Depending on the channel, roll the bass counter-clockwise until it seems to disappear and then bring it back up to taste.

Raw mode with the presence maxed and the mid a touch back from noon. The gain can be turned way up for an old school "metal" distortion; Sabbath, Priest, etc..

Using the tube rectifier took a lot of the resonance out of Modern mode. It removed some of the scooped sound.

I like to liberally apply presence and treble. Some complain about the rasp, but making the upper frequencies more dominant makes the lower frequencies fill out the sound without being swamped by it. Besides, the DR series is kind of like a fuzz pedal built into an amp. Rasp is it's bag, baby. I'm currently getting a Muff into a Fender vibe (Modern) and a fuzzy Plexi on steroids (Vintage) by doing the things listed above.

Thanks for the suggestions afu. You say a few things that make me think that we like to set our recto's the same way. Yes, I don't like boosting my signal to tighten the bass. Too much compression and I'm not keen on the compression for rhythm work.

The other thing you mentioned you like liberal amounts of treble and presence. I do a lot of the same and like the results. I think the issue is that I can get some great tones through my roadster. At rehearsal last week, I didn't have time to change the EL34's. Sure enough, I get one of the best lead tones I've ever gotten through my roadster so I'm now reluctant to take out those tubes. They do have some great tones in them.

I'm looking at the option of an EQ to tame the bass before it hits the preamp. My hope is to tame the bass up front and then dial it back in. If I think about it, almost all of my channels are set in the same ballpark. Gain is where it needs to be, treble is between noon and 3:00, mids hover around noon, and the bass is dialed back anywhere from 9 to 11 at most. Presence to taste. I'd like tame the bass in hopes of lowering the treble a tad (usually up higher to compensate for the low end in the signal) and the turn up the bass a little to round it out.

I've heard good things about Fromel Shape EQ. Anybody have any experience with these?

 

[afu]

You can't "really" dial something in that's cut. The harmonics generated by the amp might compensate a bit and reintroduce some of it, but it sounds a bit different. If you're going to do it, a graphic EQ would probably be best. I have a Boss 7 band and it works very well, but I quit using it, because of noise issues. MXR makes a 10 band EQ that I haven't used. Dropping 31Hz a lot would cut the frequencies that aren't even reproduced by the speaker and would make a curve to pull down some of the frequencies around the 61 Hz slider's territory. It also has a 15kHz slider. That can be used for cutting hiss and that stuff that makes our ears ache at high volume. Perhaps someone else knows if the MXR is a good unit.

The Whirlwind Perfect Ten is like the MXR, but boasts studio quality. Maxon makes one that's between the prices of MXR and Whirlwind, but looks like an MXR copy.

There's also digital.... I'm not a huge fan of digital, unless it's a delay/verb, but maybe someone has finally made a way to eliminate that robo-guitar sound. In a band, it probably won't be a big deal, since the wails of the frequency orgy going on masks a lot.

Have you tried dropping the bass side of your pickup by a half turn?

 

[firmani99]

Try this............

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=68246

Best thing I have ever done. As long as you don't cut too much, it can be brought back in.

 

[afu]

http://www.tcelectronic.com/nova-system/

This is almost off topic, but included in this is an EQ and drive which can be used to boost, along with a host of useful, common effects with a large degree of flexibility. It's about $500 new, but just two or three of these effects bought separately at the same standard of quality would be in the same price range or more. I was looking at it again and thought about this topic.

One of the cool things is that the drive and distortion are analog, but the settings are controlled by the computer. A/B-ing a sound would be a breeze and the purported all analog signal path means no digital artifacts mucking up the sound. That said, their Marketing Department should chill out a bit, because to control it, I'm pretty sure digital pots would be used, but it doesn't affect the sound like a modeler would.

 

[knotts]

firmani99, I did read that thread. It is what is making me thing that it's the best way to achieve what I want to hear. Thanks for posting your findings.

afu, that pedal is more than I'm looking to tangle with. I'm sure it's a great multi effects pedal, I prefer things on the simple side (completely unlike my roadster). Couple of knobs max. I don't have a ton of pedals so real estate is not an issue. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[TRENCHLORD]

Casters on the Avatar cab and the MXR EQ6 or Boss EQ7 into the front of the amp to thicken the mids so that you can have the amp's bass down low-medium and still sound full and present.

 

[afu]

I wanted to add an update:

I had a bad pot in my main guitar and it was not grounding correctly. That led to losing treble and compensating at the amp. Now that I replaced it, I'm finding that rolling a little bass off is a decent solution. I think dipping the mids to 9 o'clock pulls some of the low mids down and helps smooth the bass response.

The other thing is that I picked up a Nova System. I don't like the OD/Distortions on it, so I put it in the loop today. The compressor on it is awesome. I use it lightly (2.3:1, 18dB) and it makes everything tighter without pushing it or losing all the response. The clean channel is massively improved by it and the other channels are more present without feeling squashed or bumped in any bandwidth. A tiny bit of reverb added some depth too. It's a massive improvement.

 

[knotts]

Thanks for the update. I'm waiting to hear from Fromel about their Shape EQ. In the meantime, I've been messing with the knobs on my Xotic AC booster with some very positive results. I'm not really boosting the volume or adding much gain, but a little treble and turning down the bass knob has yielded some decent results. I'd still like to get an EQ in the mix, but overall, I'm happy with the direction that I'm headed. I'm getting more of the sound that I want and less of the sound I don't. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[bandit2013]

I have found myself here too, especially with HB equipped guitars. How to tighten up the bottom end of the Roadster. Sure I have the Mesa 5 band EQ pedal. I will have to try it out again. What really made a difference for me was change of three preamp tubes, with the rest being stock. Mullard CV4004 in V1, V2 and Sovtek LPS in V6. WOW, this amp is now a monster. More note definition and articulation with HB and moderate to high gain settings in modern voice of CH3 and CH4 without the mud or lack of articulation. Sorry for a lack of words that best describes the difference. Not quite as tight as the Mark V, CH2 crunch set with maxed gain (still has to be my favorite Heavy Metal tone). CH1 and CH2 tone is not much different with the exception of being a bit louder so I do not have to push the master volume of the channel to hear it (change in PI tube is the key for that). Brit voice of CH2 can also get close to the Mark V CH2 crunch voice, almost as tight or dry in the low end and not as brittle as it was with all stock tubes. TWEED does not seem to be any different and still sounds great. If I only had SC guitars, I would not need to change anything. Now I get the best of both SC and HB (some with active tone controls, and some only passive). Can't comment on EMG type of pups since I have none.

Yes, I have tried the tung sol 12ax7 ,Mullard RI 12ax7, EH, PS7025, Ruby AC7,Ruby ACZHG (JJ tube), Northern Electric, JAN/GE5751, Gold Lion B759, JJ ECC83S, and some old Mesa Chinese tubes from the 90's. I was basically trying to find a tube mix that sounds great with SC and HB. For only HB, TS in V1, V2 with LPS in V6, what also sounded good was JAN/GE 5751 in V1 (rest stock) for modern modes of CH3 and CH4, sacrifice some loudness in the other channels and raw/vintage.

 

[bandit2013]

Here is a sweet trick that does not require any tube changes. However, you need an EQ pedal to be placed in the loop. I have messed around with the Mesa 5 Band EQ that I bought for use with the RA100. I really did not have any specific need for it. I decided to see what effect I could get in the loop of the Roadster. The typical V pattern was not the greatest. However, an inverted V pattern ^ did the trick. Leave the low (80hz) and high (6kHz) sliders in the middle or neutral position. Boost the 750 (center slider) all the way up and adjust the 250Hz and 2.2k Hz sliders on either side for your desire. This makes for a killer boost for shifting the mids and really makes the amp scream. set it to bypass or turn of the Effect to go back to normal. You can also drop the low end to attenuate if needed. I have also tried an M pattern too. Inverted V or ^ sounded the beast. Effects loop centered on the back panel of the amp, input and output levels also at center position.

 

[bandit2013]

Good idea or bad????

Since I had opened up my 14 year old over sized recto cab, never seemed the same, the obvious reason was to change speakers. I must have disturbed the mortise and tenon joint of the center beam that ties the back panel to the baffle since I was getting some vibrations that were getting worse with use. It did not take any effort to remove the beam. Had to remove the 8 nails before re-gluing the beam in place. However, I had noticed the vibrations were centered on the upper angled baffle, not the bottom one. Took some measurements, and well, a daughter 2x4 cut to length would fit. The wood strip that joins the top and bottom appears to be at a right angle to the center post. In short, I installed a daughter board to the original post (secured with wood glue and screws just about every possible angle feasible). The end result, no more buzz, as a bonus the cabinet character changed a bit. Improved tone with tighter bass and not as dominant, still plenty of it with more punch. Overall brightness increased a bit. Of course there may be more to see in the image, things not to do, like RTC sealant on the speaker mounting (around edges, not on the gasket.) just makes for more work to remove the speaker. Yeah I did change the hookup too, removed the stereo jacks and made it strictly mono. Had issue with the original jack becoming an intermittent issue. Other than that, the 4x4 beam will alter the resonant frequency a bit. So for me this was needed. May not be something you should do, unknown what the end result will be, depends on your speakers. Also note, I had this cab for a little over 14 years, and needed some minor repair.

 

[knotts]

My 4x12 is only a few years old and in great shape. I have gotten decent results with an OD, so I don't think it's cab related. I don't notice the same thing through my 2x12, but I don't play it as much. I'm waiting to hear back from my friends at Frommel. The guy emails me back right away. If only they could make a pedal as quickly as they respond to email I would think that they would have more money in their pockets. Thanks for the suggestions. Keep em coming.

 

[Coker]

where can i get more info on the Rev C/D mod

 

[bandit2013]

I was not completely satisfied with the mod I did to the 412 cab. The change in resonance removed the low end too much. I removed the center post and made a new one. The only difference being a small block added to the upper baffle and secured to the beam to reduce the unwanted vibrations. Tone is back to where it should be. As for a new cab, I would not do anything this dramatic to it. Actually I do have a new one to match the RA100 and it is perfect in every way. If my original Recto 412 cab sounded as good as the new one I would not have done anything too it.