My Mark Five 90 is trashed/ Resolved 2/14/22

[KRichter]

OK...Here it goes, My trashed MKV90.
Been a Boogie for 25 years guy for 25 years, NEVER experienced anything like this.
Sent it to my local authorized Mesa repair guy, he had it for 90 days and couldn't figure it out. Finally got it back and will be sending it to Petaluma.
Guy says replaced some caps..da..da.da...Still the same.
The amp is 10 years old. I've had it for 2 years with no issues.
I gigged, worked great, came home, 2 day later, light it up, it's shot.
Yes...I did a complete re-tube and re-swap, nothing is fried on the inside. Checked the loop, all that crap.
The prev owner and I have been running EL34's in it forever. No issues.
Also the Tech checked it way more than I ever could, and says couldn't diagnose it (yep, I know. Odd).
This is way beyond that.
Never a failure with boogie till this one.
What a nightmare...
Here's a little vid I made about all the issues, sorry for the low volume.
Just wondering if this ever happened to anyone else. Very Frustrated.
Stuck relays?
Thanks Guys...
https://youtu.be/bGfP9o986tY

 

[doublescale1]

You're on the right track in sending it back to Petaluma, a lotta moving parts in there; the factory folks should be able to sort it. It's a shame the amp is so very confused, Mesa will sort it..

 

[BroKV]

Any Mesa amps I have owned have only gone to Mesa for refresh/work. Don’t trust anyone, authorized or not.

 

[KRichter]

Yep, every time I called this guy (about once a week) It was like "replaced a few caps..." Looking at the chassis when I got it back, I don't really see anything... A majority of the caps are close together and hit with a hot glue gun, I don't see anything removed or replaced. Who knows, this guy did ***** a lot about Boogie's, And...he was their guy in my area. I don't know if he really did anything.

 

[rarebitusa]

The V:90 is complex, a "divide & conquer" troubleshooting approach may be something to try.

You mentioned "checking the loop"... did that include isolating the preamp? With the guitar in, loop not in bypass and no footswitch, run the fx send to something you can monitor with ie: another amp's fx return or even an audio interface. Use the rear panel control switches to change chans and see if the problem continues. There should be variable vol control with both the gain/master on each chan.

Next you can use a guitar with some type of boost pedal and run that into the fx return and test the power amp section. Changing chans of course will config the power section and setting each chan differently say 90/45/10 for chans 1/2/3.

The outcomes may provide an additional clue where to look next.

 

[KRichter]

Thanks Rarebitusa, I did do some of that early on and will check it again now that I have it back, I know just enough to be dangerous having worked on some simple amps myself, been abound them for 45 years, 25 years with various boogies. What kinda really pisses me off is Mesa sent me to their authorized guy, had it for months, threw his hands up on it, when I picked it up, it was the same, then he proceeded to says this is the last MarkV, not doing them anymore, pain in the ***, etc... He wasn't a real **** about it, but still. Rich at Mesa is going to call with a RMA tomm.
Thanks, I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[Thaymz]

Hey mate

I’ve watched the video and have a couple of observations. Some of the amp behaviours I think could be explained, at least from what I see in the video. Some potentially might be a problem, being the hum and potential issue on channel 1. The hum could also be caused by the amp, interference with the guitar’s pickups or other electronics or magnetics nearby. Hard to say based on the vid is channel 1 is definitely dead, based on how I see the settings. You may know some or all of the below - the amp has a lot of functions, the controls are interrelated and can be complicated and not everyone has dissected the manual. I mention the below in case you may not be aware of some of the features.

Voltage pop
The voltage pop when turning on from standby is common when releasing from standby and also when switching channels, and generally louder if there are voltage changes across channels. From what I recall in the manual these are normal operation and can be expected. The manual mentions it more in the context of switching channels with different voltages but several Mesas I have pop when switching from standby as well. Manual states no harm to the amp will come from the voltage pops.

Channel controls
These will only be applicable when that particular channel is selected.

Master not working
Master is only in the chain when FX Loop is on. When not engaged the Channel Master control is your channel’s volume. If Loop is set to hard bypass the output master is not in the chain and will have no impact on tone. You did mention however you’ve tried with hard bypass switched in and out with no difference but thought I should mention as most of the video is set to hard bypass, at least from what I could see.

Channel 1 volume
The volume of each channel, independent of the output master, is going to be a combination of the the channel’s master control primarily, the channel’s Gain control and the channel’s treble control with the last two being second contributors to volume. Then once the channel has enough signal going through, if FX Loop is engaged you can use the output master to adjust the volume of all three channels at once. When FX Loop is engaged, the intended design is to set the channel volumes relative to each other, and then use the output master to adjust the whole amp up or down.

You also have had the amp for a number of years, how do the settings in channel 1 compare to how you normally use them? Is CH1 master always set that low? I don't have a mark V anymore to check what level of output

In the video channel 2 and 3 have their master set around 11 oclock but it is at 9 or below 9 o’clock on channel 1. Being a low gain channel the master would generally need to be set higher, have you tried bringing that up to 11/12 o’clock? So you don’t damage your ears, always be careful when engaging / hard bypassing the loop. If it’s working you can get significant changes in volume and it can be deafening.

EQ not working on channel 1
There is an EQ switch on the front panel that overrides in priority to the footswitch. Switched to top is On, Middle Off, Bottom FTSW. I couldn’t see exactly what yours was set to but your GEQ was set moderately flat so bring it in and out of the loop was have minimal effect on the tone. Have you tried it with a different EQ setting and Switched up to On. Once you’ve confirmed EQ as On, go to the GEQ section and ensure its set to Sliders. If its set to Preset it ignores the Graphic EQ and instead using the Preset Curve Control knob to the right of the GEQ. If set neutral at noon this would have no impact on tone. Looking back at the vid it looks like EQ was set to FTSW, and GEQ type was set to Sliders. So either this is due to their not being enough volume or signal coming through channel one (increase channel master to check) or the channel is dead.

Diode setting
These settings only impact the sound when on that channel. The amp was on channel 1 before we moved to the back of the back.

Channel 1 - Diode / Tube, is only applicable to 45w. If I recall the amp was set to 90w? Have you tried this switch when channel 1 is set to 45? The difference is also minor and you’d only hear subtle differences and feel, so best to try it with guitar signal going through

Channel 2 - Diode / Tube. Only applies to 45w power. Switch only applicable when in channel 3. As far as I could tell the amp was still in channel 1.

Channel 3 - Triode / Pentode. Switch only applicable when in channel 3. As far as I could tell the amp was still in channel 1.

Channel / Loop assign
Control overrides the footswitch if I recall. ie footswitch will only dictate the channel and Loop assign setting when the control is set to FTSW. It looks to me like this is working as intended.

Solo Pull Mute
This control should only work when the FX Loop is engaged. Interesting and strange that that worked but the Output Master had no impact on channel 1. Either neither of them should work if hard bypassed or both of them should work if Loop is active. If Loop is active when this worked then the master not having an audible difference could be caused by the channel 1 master just being too low. ie - Maybe the overall Output master is working, but there’s just not enough volume coming through the channel for it to make a difference. I would try raise that channel 1 master control to 12 o’clock or higher and see if any difference.

I would try the above to narrow down which ones are true issues as some or all of the frustrations may potentially be resolved. Also separately, you mentioned you are running EL34s. Ensure the bias switch is set to EL34. This point is emphasised in the manual and I assume could do real damage to the amp. I couldn’t see the switch in the vid.

If no luck - I echo the suggestions above. if you’re in the US, send to Mesa.

 

[KRichter]

Thanks Guys, just did a re-do of pretty much all of those check with Mesa on the phone, they agreed they need to have it sent back.... I'll keep you posted, I expect to send it out Monday 1/3/21. Thank you all & wishing you a Happy New Year!

 

[mace]

Hope things work out for you! Your tech doesn't happen to reside in Indy, does he?

Honestly, as time goes on and people retire or change jobs I often wonder long term how much expertise will remain at Mesa for the Mark V? Especially with Gibson taking over. It is really an engineering marvel but at the same time requires a very knowledgable/experienced tech for repairs. If there is some house cleaning/outsourcing by Gibson this could be bad for in house expertise at Mesa.

 

[KRichter]

Hope things work out for you! Your tech doesn't happen to reside in Indy, does he?

Honestly, as time goes on and people retire or change jobs I often wonder long term how much expertise will remain at Mesa for the Mark V? Especially with Gibson taking over. It is really an engineering marvel but at the same time requires a very knowledgable/experienced tech for repairs. If there is some house cleaning/outsourcing by Gibson this could be bad for in house expertise at Mesa.

I hear ya brother! I'm in Cleveland, OH.

 

[KRichter]

So they have had it 3 weeks as of today. I called last Friday and they said they are 4 weeks behind, It's killin me. So for me, it's been down for 4 mos now. I've been using a mkv:25 thru a 2/12, great amp, but has nowhere the thump the 90 has. Sure you can mic it, but I like a hot amp for my own stage thump.

 

[El Rey]

So they have had it 3 weeks as of today. I called last Friday and they said they are 4 weeks behind, It's killin me. So for me, it's been down for 4 mos now. I've been using a mkv:25 thru a 2/12, great amp, but has nowhere the thump the 90 has. Sure you can mic it, but I like a hot amp for my own stage thump.

At 63, I've got lots more patience now.

Try to relax and rest easy. I just got my MKIV back after 2 month wait. Mike Bendinelli did my amp, and might be the only guy servicing the Marks at the moment?

Just got a brand new MKV 90W Combo. I won't be surprised if it has some problems inside the amp somewhere down the line.

And if it does, well......I've got my trusty MKIV-A here which is my favorite Mark.

I'm thinking there's a legion of old geezers like myself that prefer the old Marks over the new ones.

Maybe this new MKV will change my mind on that, but I doubt it. The MKV 35 I just let go was a good little amp, but I'll always take my MKIV over it. The 35 sounded really good, but there was something missing in it. I don't think the EL84 power tube reason will wash with me. I played thru a old Studio 22 a day ago, and it still has that biting, cutting magic of my MKIV, and the Studio 22 also has EL84.

We'll see.

Unboxing the 90W beast today. I'm hoping to be impressed, but not counting on it.

 

[KRichter]

Nice! I do like the MKV combo, I put some recessed spring handles on the side. I wasn't crazy about the v90' so I put a EM12 in it and made a world of difference. I do have a 2/12 with the 90's in it and that sounds great, just not in the combo (my opinion only). I did have 2 MKIV's rackmount shortys, wow was that a mistake letting them go. Let me know how your likikg the V, Like any Boogie, it's a little bit before you truly get it dialed in.

 

[El Rey]

Nice! I do like the MKV combo, I put some recessed spring handles on the side. I wasn't crazy about the v90' so I put a EM12 in it and made a world of difference. I do have a 2/12 with the 90's in it and that sounds great, just not in the combo (my opinion only). I did have 2 MKIV's rackmount shortys, wow was that a mistake letting them go. Let me know how your likikg the V, Like any Boogie, it's a little bit before you truly get it dialed in.

Nothing actually wrong with my new 90W MKV Combo. But so far I still prefer my MKIV-A.

To my ears, the MKV sounds too "slick and refined". Not as "raw and in your face" as my MKIV can be in any of its three channels.

Will take some time to see how this one works out.

Just ordered a Studio Slips cover for it. Didn't realize Studio Slips is owned by Mike Bendinelli's wife.

 

[KRichter]

Nice!, you can get that in your face, ripping raw sound, just have to play around a bit, I like it but it really has too much crap on it. I was on the fence for a while, till I actually was able to gig with it. It really opened up, of course being a IV guy, I played on that setting. Cheers!

 

[El Rey]

Nice!, you can get that in your face, ripping raw sound

Negative....the MKIV & MKII C+ are an anime/cartoons versions to my ears of the actual MKIV & MKII C+ amps I have.

While I didn't expect the new MKV to sound just like them, I did not expect it to be so far off. Especially since Mesa has hyped them to the n'th degree (typical Mesa marketing though).

To be fair, the MKV 90W is a decent amp. I'm familiar with the controls on the old MK's. I can get what I need out of the old ones. Suffered the learning curve on those years ago.

Actually, I find the MKV controls are a bit simpler, and not nearly as temperamental as my MKIIC+ and MKIV-A.

I don't hear it either in the better demos Mesa has. I like the one with Doug West. He gets some great sounds out of the MKV. But there too, I don't hear MKIV or MKIIC. And also to be fair, while even the best produced demos can be pleasing and entertaining to listen to and see, they are no ultimate substitute for using the amp on ones personal "turf", in the live loud band mix. No substitute. No way.

I love Mesa gear, preferring the old Marks over anything else. Both the way they are built and sound. I'll probably end up selling the MKV eventually and patiently searching out another MKIV-A. Hopefully, the prices come down, but I doubt it. At least not immediately.

I'm certain I'm the odd one out on this, as most everyone I read about raves on the MKV iterations and JP2C.

The MKV 90W is a very good amp overall, was just expecting something different.

Ciao y Au Revoir

 

[mace]

Maybe the Mark V will grow on you a bit over time? Maybe not. When I get new gear I usually give it 2-3 months because my mind and mental biases will play tricks on me. I’m an old geezer like you (almost) and pretty set in my ways. Therefore, I’ve learned to give change time to see if it is good or bad. My Mark V is my first Mark and I’ve never owned an older Mesa amp, so I guess I am in ignorant bliss!

Question: who is Mike Bendinelli? Does he work at Mesa or an independent tech? The reverb circuit on my Mark V (2012 purchased new) just crapped the bed again. Sweetwater repaired it about 1.5 years ago but alas the same problem just popped up. Anyway, I want it fixed once and for all!

 

[El Rey]

Maybe the Mark V will grow on you a bit over time? Maybe not. When I get new gear I usually give it 2-3 months because my mind and mental biases will play tricks on me. I’m an old geezer like you (almost) and pretty set in my ways. Therefore, I’ve learned to give change time to see if it is good or bad. My Mark V is my first Mark and I’ve never owned an older Mesa amp, so I guess I am in ignorant bliss!

Question: who is Mike Bendinelli? Does he work at Mesa or an independent tech? The reverb circuit on my Mark V (2012 purchased new) just crapped the bed again. Sweetwater repaired it about 1.5 years ago but alas the same problem just popped up. Anyway, I want it fixed once and for all!

Mike Bendinelli is the Chief Tech at Mesa in Petaluma, CA. As far as I know, he was with Randall Smith from almost the beginning. In my estimation, he is the very best with Mark Series amps. Especially the older Marks. Many happy Mark owners will vouch for his skills.

Personally speaking, any Mark I have that I do not want to work on myself, I will remove the chassis from the head/cab shell and ship it directly to Mesa for repair. As far as I know, if it is a Mark Series Amp, it will go to him.

I don't trust any of the Mesa authorized service centers. Mostly because even the older Marks are a pain in the *** to work on. Especially if its not something one does everyday. Mike works on them every day for years. In my book, there is no one better.

DO NOT SEND TO RAY BARBEE MUSIC!!!!!

DO NOT SEND TO SLEMMONS ELECTRONICS!!!!!!

I just got my cherished 1992 MKIV-A combo back from them a couple weeks ago. It operates flawlessly, and sounds marvelous now.

Mesa still has the best customer service on the planet.

Give them a call, get an RMA#, remove the chassis from the head/cabinet shell, remove the tubes, wrap them up carefully, pack them with the chassis well padded so they don't break in transit, and send it in. They are as reasonable as anyone in price for the best repair work on all Mesa Marks old and new.

Contact this guy:

Rich Duvall
Mesa/Boogie
Tech Support
707-789-3324

[email protected]

 

[KRichter]

Update: After exactly 4 weeks, Mesa called and my MKV90 is done. Few bad relays, diodes, new reverb jacks. Cost was 90.00 and 90.00 to ship it back. That's not bad at all. Considering The Authorized guy they originally sent me to, had it for 3 mos and couldn't diagnose anything, if he actually did anything. Should be packed up and shipped back in a few days! That made my day!

 

[El Rey]

Update: After exactly 4 weeks, Mesa called and my MKV90 is done. Few bad relays, diodes, new reverb jacks. Cost was 90.00 and 90.00 to ship it back. That's not bad at all. Considering The Authorized guy they originally sent me to, had it for 3 mos and couldn't diagnose anything, if he actually did anything. Should be packed up and shipped back in a few days! That made my day!

And there will be the dumb-@$$e$ that ***** about the shipping because they were too stupid to just remove the chassis and tubes, and ship the chassis.

Mesa needs to charge more.

I would not trust anyone to work on the more complex Mesas than Mesa.

Hopefully, when Mike Bendinelli retires, which is supposed to be soon, he will continue to work Mesa's. Besides the creator himself, Randall Smith, there is no one better on Mesa Amps!