Mk llCl drgx imbuya late '83 now I'm curious!

[OryCheyne]

I've had my mkllC since 1992 or 1994 (blurry times), had always just been happy with it. A few years ago I'd googled some info on boogies and noticed the fuss about the C+ so I checked mine and found it likely to be a moded C. S/n 11397 marking under chassis is 7/83, and cabinet is 8/83. The faceplate has 'Pull Shift' printed above the bass pot whereas the other pot markings are etched. (Imbuya cab and EV speaker)
Today I was going through some older Boogie Board posts and saw BoogieBabies thred mentioned some early +'s had a single vertical line above the power cord and suggesting there be a MkllCl just prior to the C+ production.
The same single vertical marking is on my amp, I think mine had to have been sent back for the mod before I owed it and that MB just didn't bother striking the horizontal line through. I think this has to be the case, however I'm interested to know more if anyone has a similar mark on their mark, what months and s/n?
From accounts in that thread the C+ started Jan 84. Can anyone confirm which s/n ended the normal run of llC production, or know the dates of any other threads which discuss the llCl in more detail?

What a terrible problem I have. (It's ok to hate me! - I would)

 

[JCB1980]

Hey man, what's up? Wasn't BoogieBabies post awesome? Great info on this board for sure.

I've got a Mark IIC I DRG. Serial number of 121XX. The date on the side of the chassis is 43 and underneath it is dated 12/83. Mine is a combo, black tolex. Only thing I can see with mine that isn't original is the EV (has original sales receipt with the EV option on it) was replaced at some point in the line.

I plan on sending it in for the rest of the C+ upgrade in the next couple of months. It has the RP11A and the PWR 7C1 boards. Once I have it upgraded the only difference between it and a factory original IIC+ should be the fact it has the PT100 tranny.

 

[OryCheyne]

Thanks for the reply JCB. Too right about the forum.

Thinking I'll pop the C open and check board and transformer details.
I've never been disappointed with it's sound so I'm not sure what difference would be between it and a factory.
About a year ago I enquired with Boogie about a service, at $300 I thought that excellent, just that the freight back to Australia was going to be $1k. Too steep but still in the back of my mind. Could it really sound better.
You mentioned there was more to be upgraded on yours to get it to a +. Do you know what that would be? Yours have 'pull shift' printed above the bass control?

Think I need to modify my signature.

 

[JCB1980]

I haven't a clue what is actually done inside the amp to make it a C+. BoogieBabies could tell you if you asked him. Most of what I know I learned reading his and others' posts on here. The things I mentioned before about the board are just things I have picked up on here to look for when figuring out exactly what you have. The early IICs had RP10 and IIRC PWR 7D1 boards that could be upgraded to a IIC+ but had to be manipulated differently. The RP11A and PWR 7C1 would have been what was in C+ that were factory original and not upgraded. The transformer I have is the PT100, the factory C+ would be PT105 transformers. There is debate here and on the interweb of which sounds best, but the PT105 would be the one that was on the factory DRGs. Yours being a DRGX it has the export tranny which is the X101 (? I think) and is highly regarded for the IIC+ according to what I read here.

As for what the upgraded C to C+ sound difference would be, it adds some gain to the lead channel and the rhythm channel a bit too. It smooths out the lead channels gain too. It also makes the Effects Loop usable if you use them. From everything I read it is highly recommended to do the upgrade, even MB at Mesa apparently says the same thing, though I have never spoke to him myself. And comparing the IIC I that I have with the IIC+ I definitely want the upgrade. Not to say the IIC I sounds bad at all because it sounds great, but the IIC+ is just better to me.

Mine does have the Pull Shift above the bass control. All IIC's and IIC+ would have this. The one to look out on is the Master 1 control. The IIC's and the IIC I that I have has 'Gain Boost' above the Master 1 control. A factory IIC+ would have 'Pull Deep' (except in when it doesn't, which is another long explanation).

$1k shipping is brutal for sure, but the fact you have a Mesa in Australia alone is awesome. I read here they are hard to come by and command some crazy prices.

When you look inside it the numbers for the preamp board will be (looking down, amp face top) on the right edge of the board, go straight down from there and the number on the power amp board will be in the top right corner of it. On the side of the chassis will be what model it was made as (DRG, HRGX, SR, etc.) and a number. The number corresponds to the week of the year the amp began being built and the date on the bottom of the chassis between the tubes is the date of final assembly or inspection IIIRC.

And as for the signature, haha, places like this are the only place I can nerd out on gear and not get looked at too funny. So you may as well go all out.

 

[OryCheyne]

http://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=5f0efe041275ce10!1693&authkey=!AKl5lvVS8cxxvGY&ithint=album,

Thanks for all the details JCB.
Some photos linked.
Seems this one must have made it back to mesa.
The power board has 7C on it missing the 1. The preamp is RP10.
X101 and simul-class transformer.
If the photo link works can anyone tell me if this has the upgrade?
Much appreciated.

Ory

 

[gts]

......can anyone tell me if this has the upgrade?

Do the effects loop test.
Let us know what you find.

 

[OryCheyne]

Will do again in around 8 hours. I have done so previously and recall it being a flat response - no change in tone.
Not having any reference, I'm second guessing and will retest.
I've never been disappointed with the sounds, mainly interested in learning about what it actually is and it's history.
Also starting to wonder who had it before me.
Will update on test later.

Ory.

 

[Boogiebabies]

The IIC I I saw was # 12186 and was a 1X12 SRX with an RP-11A.

I found another IIC+ on Craigslist in Kingston, NY and went to go buy the amp. When I got there it was a IIC I
in the early 12000 range and it passed the loop test and had a Pull Deep face plate. However, it did not sound
like a C+ and I pulled the chassis in the store and it was very similar to the IIC I # 12186 and had a loop modification.

These are the only two I have seen like that.

 

[JCB1980]

Here are some pics and gut shots of the IIC I that I have. BoogieBabies, thanks for all the info you have provided and compiled on the board. Off subject completely, but I saw in one thread where you were talking and you mentioned watching your Panthers loosing. In my world the Panthers are Carolina, just curious if yours are the same. If so, that makes you even more awesome in my book. Anyway, on to the photos.

 

[loylo69]

Will do again in around 8 hours. I have done so previously and recall it being a flat response - no change in tone.
Not having any reference, I'm second guessing and will retest.
I've never been disappointed with the sounds, mainly interested in learning about what it actually is and it's history.
Also starting to wonder who had it before me.
Will update on test later.

Ory.

Looking at your pics, it seems to me your amp is an original IIC, not modded to +.
I own a IIC (not+) that lokks quite the same as yours (except it is 100W version, non simulclass), I will check the S/N and date codes.

 

[OryCheyne]

The response direct in via loop return is flat all the way.

JCB, nice pics, rather clean machine for its age, (I need to learn how to load photos direct in here)! Look at me noobing on this too!
I see the power board is the 7C1 you were saying is in the C+ standard. It looks very similar to the 7C (no 1) in mine, I wonder what the version change is, must be different to warrant the next increment.
Does your llC| have flat tone through the return?

Loylo, thanks for the feedback, that's what I'm after. Guess I'm wishing mine already had the upgrade.

BoogieBabie,
It seems there are a few examples of the llC | models out there! I'm interested whether the difference between the standard or |, and the + is easily visible at the circuit level?
I noticed different sized ceramics between JCB's and mine near the return input jack. Is that the loop modification you referred to?
If the standard llC has some tonal change in the effects return and if the C+ and Cl don't present any change in tone, what distinguishes the difference between the C+ and the C|? Is it the preamp or the power amp stage where the + upgrade is done?

I only read a few of the earliest Boogiebabie posts that had mentioned the llC l version, before I sent my post.
Best I research more of the previous posts for photos of the C+ I can compare against.

Played again today after I check the return input tone and I noticed there may be some dirt in the drive channel pull pot. The channel really didn't engage until I used the foot switch!!! Needs some work.

Cheers
Ory

 

[gts]

Ory and JCB1980

I suspect the IIC-I was an incremental development of the IIC on it's way to what eventually became the IIC+.

As BB stated he's seen a couple of others and they passed the loop test.
At least one he had seen had the RP-11A Pre-amp board as well as a Pull Deep face plate. (The RP-11a was the board used during IIC+ production and is in JCB1980 IIC-I as well.)
The RP-11a board could very well have been in development during the time these other IIC-I's were produced.

Ory yours has the RP-10 pre-amp board which was the board used during IIC production.
That said yours might have been one of the first that was tweaked by Mesa when they were fiddling around, exploring, and improving, IIC's on their way to becoming the C+.

 

[OryCheyne]

Thanks GTS
I think both mine and JCB's could still be on their journey to eventually becoming llC+s.

BoogiBabies, you certainly laid out the ground work, and I do mean work. Plectrums' raised high! I have only scratched the surface however I think I'm going to have many months great reading. (I feel like one of those people who hadn't seen any episodes of Breaking Bad, or Game of Thrones, then just get watch all the episodes in one shot). Although it looks like there're a few photos missing and links broke, that's what we get with technology.
After reading one of Tony777s post, he has exactly the same DGRX as mine, only 5 weeks younger than mine and looking like it hadn't seen the light of day in the last thirty years. The fact he had the real thing to compare it against and still decided to act sells it for me.
Someone tell me if I shouldn't? How much should I ensure it for in transit?

I hope M.B. is still offering the upgrade service.
Nobody let my wife find out. I'll have to sell something, obviously not gear related!

I paid $2kAu for mine in 1992, (I discovered that I had defaced it by putting my initials and date in sharpie), when I was as an apprentice on about $11k a year wages, took out a loan to get it. The cab is in no condition compared to the one Tony777 has. I paid no particular attention in giving mine string marks at gigs on several different occasions. The metal strap in the handle is just about broke right through from all the lugging. Heavier than a bucket of lead! I love it. Some joints the guys would be stressing about leaving the gear after setup to get a meal. I was never really concerned due to the weight. Would love to see someone trying to run and carry one of these.

I think I'm going to start obsessing over this. Comments welcome. Should I gift it a vertical line to go with it's horizontal?

 

[OryCheyne]

Removed :!:

 

[OryCheyne]

Replying to my own post! (because I'm procrastinating about something else)
I have decided after consulting reputable Mesa tech.
No + upgrade for now, staying it as is, other than dirty pots it ain't broke.
Sometime before August will be serviced at ProAudio in Canberra. Tubes, caps, detritus!

If not for being on the other side of the world to Petaluma - may be different!
I'll see about getting a before and after recording and may update after the service.

 

[McBarry]

+1 for John's work at Pro Audio (he's the service manager for the last decade or two).

Ask him if he's got any nice 6L6's besides the new production ones - U might be surprised.

Where are U located?

And BTW....dude, get a roadcase for that baby.. a run down the Hume in the back of a courier truck will rattle it's bones bigtime !!!

Be prepared for seriously scary bill for work. Filter caps are something like $40ish each !!!!!!!! But he's a good operator and your baby will be in good hands.

Regs, Dave

 

[OryCheyne]

Hi Dave,
I'm in Sydney, likely to travel it to Canberra in person. Scary to think I used to lug it every where in the back of my van with the rest of the band gear. Bassist had a +400. None of us had road cases. Further up and down the Hume to Brisbane and Melbourne, quite a bit for a few years.

Thanks for the heads up on the bill. Likely to be saving a bit by not sending it to the States though.

Cheers.

 

[OryCheyne]

So this Dummy (me) finally (after only several months as a BB member) clicked on the Mark Series link for the first time today. Lo behold :shock: 'The Post'! Ed, I'd been flying blind.

I can safely say my llC is not a + and has not been upgraded. :|
(falls safely inline with the s/n and date timeline of events Ed strung together).
Until today I had thought the amp passed the 'loop test' given the tone didn't change as I increased the volume via the Lead Drive.
Well the tone don't change but it certainly gets louder, which apparently means it's a fail.

Would dearly love to send it home for the mod if only money wasn't an issue. Will need to stick to my guns for now and see how it sounds and what the guys at ProAudio suggest after it's serviced.
Has anyone heard of an upgrade being done by Boogie certified technicians other than Mike B? What is the consensus, sacrilegious or acceptable for anyone else to rewire.
I know Mike would have seen every variation, so he would only be the best choice of tech in all of the entire world.
Anyone know if Mike B has some kind of soldering robot that he can operate from remote?

Finally, what I want to know is who was the f@cjkn idiot that built Australia so faraway from California?

 

[loylo69]

I can safely say my llC is not a + and has not been upgraded. :|

As I said, sadly, your pics suggested that your RP10 preamp board has no sign of the + mod.
I know other people than MB can perform the mod. But some may consider that MB should be THE guy to be asked for performing the mod.
For example, JVK can do this mod. But he's on the UK...

 

[McBarry]

Sydney eh?
Drop me a txt and we can swap beers/stories/lies/more beers/homebrew/even more lies when U come down.. 0401 361512

If U know what U want done, John certainly can do it... BUT, he's not an avid lover like U and I and most readers here.
Sooooo..... he might be "lacklustre" in enthusiasm to do whatever mods U desire, but his actual work is top notch..
And all Mesa parts (which is where the scare factor comes into play for the cost..)

Pro Audio are the only authorised service centre in Oz - he's got a steady stream of MB's through there, from really yummy vintage to ultra modern..
Interestingly, Pro Audio weren't the original importer - it was either Farrells Music or Brookvale Music on the northern beaches. I've got one of their aluminium shop ID plates on My Mark IIA - a VERY VERY yummy amp if ever there was one...
I might admit to a teency bit of bias there....

Cheers, Dave