Mesa Boogie Triple Rec, Metal and Heavy Metal tones

[Blackhand]

I recently acquired a Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier and I'm having a blast with the variety of tone in it and it has certainly been keeping me busy as I play all kinds of music.

However, that being said, the main reason I picked up the triple rec was for a great metal/heavy metal tone.

I've been playing with it in channel 3 on many different EQ settings now for about 2 months , and while it does have a good tone, it lacks a lot of... power (I seem to lack the ability to describe in explicit detail the sound an amp/guitar makes).

Palm mutes aren't very defined don't have that bone crunching sound, muddy I believe is the term? And in general unless I push the gain, treb and presence incredibly high, 4 or 5 oclock (and its still lacking), the tone really is lacking in power, which is odd for what is suppose to be the a good hi-gain metal channel with great tweaking potential.

My current gear looks as follows:

Current Guitars:
1. A Cort (This thing needs to go the the rubbish dump, its about 10 years old now, my first electric).
2. A Epiphone Les Paul Black beauty, currently in Drop C with Ernie Ball Beefy Slinkies, otherwise stock.
3. Jackson Kevin Bond RR Sig Model, Drop C, Beefy Slinkies, otherwise stock.

Current Amps:
Teeeeensy Ibanez practice amp.
Roland Cube 30.
Roland Cube 60 (I wasn't always filthy rich =)).
Mesa Boogie Triple Rec with Mesa 4x12 cab. Brand new 6L6 Mesa Tubes.

No pedals, I'm just running guitar to amp.

I've obviously tried all 3 guitars out on it, the Jackson by far delivered the best improvement in tone, but still very much the same kind of tonal problems.

Its probably worth noting that I haven't yet pushed the volumes to extreme levels, knowing how this effects sound of tube amps. But keeping that in mind, I'm having to push the gain/treble/presence to very high levels, much higher than I would expect to get some power at below ear bleeding volumes. Perhaps this is normal? I'm going to make time soon to either steal away some band practice time while I spend hours fiddling or clear the neighborhood out so I can safely shred.

I've read around a bit on the intawebz that putting a overdrive pedal on very low settings (still Channel 3/Modern) or an EQ into the FX loop could help with the tonal problems I'm having.

I really want to get some advice from people with loads of experience in this before I start throwing in more money as I live in South Africa and musical equipment here is INCREDIBLY overpriced and very little stock of anything is kept on shelf to actually test with.

Thanks a lot in advance.

 

[mrd]

You're new to Mesa so I'll just say this:

Read the manual. Seriously. Read it like 50 times. Mesa writes extremely informative manuals that go far above and beyond what most people would expect to know or care to know about their new amp.

It will tell you exactly what every single knob does, how it affects OTHER knobs, and where to set them for "ideal" tones.

The first thing I'll say is this: treble & gain are the most powerful knobs on that amp. The other knobs feed their signal FROM the treble knob, so when you crank treble to 5 o clock, not only does it sound like fucking ****, it also leaves about diddly-**** all for the other knobs to play with, because treble is taking 95% of the tone.

Try this:
Ch3 Modern
Loop off
Volume 9'oclock
Presence from 3-5oclock (too high will give too much high-end transients and ****, but keep it fairly high for metal)
Bass 12 o'clock
Mids 5o'clock or 100%
I know this seems unorthodox but Mids are what define your guitar. The guitar is a mid-range instrument, and there is a **** load of tight, beefy and definitive gain available in the mid knob. Maybe you won't like it all the way up, but at least try it. If not, bump it back down to 12o'clock. But please, whatever you do, don't turn it off.
Treble 10o'clock to 12o'clock
Once you get past about 11:30o'clock on the treble, it REALLY starts to sap the tone. Anything past about 1o'clock, and all you're getting is treble. Keep it reasonable.
Gain 11o'clock to 3o'clock
Again, remember that if you turn up louder, turn the gain down a bit otherwise you will have to deal with crazy feedback, etc. Also, notice that at about 1:30o'clock, the gain causes a lot more bass to suddenly kick in, so maybe play with a threshold there. I've just come to accept the fact that Rectos are fucking bass machines and I don't care about trying to tame it anymore, if I want a less thundering sound I just play my MKIV.

Also... I know I said to keep volume at 9o'clock but that's just a starting point..seriously..turn that **** the **** up bro. 12o'clock volume with those settings (maybe tame the gain a bit) will give you classic, crushing Recto tone.

Oh BTW: silicon diodes.

 

[LEVEL4]

That's odd. You should get CRUSHING tones out of your Epi Les Paul. I have an LP Studio with stock humbuckers, and it's way more crushing than my DiMarzio-equipped HM Strat through my Single-Recto Solo 50.

 

[Elpelotero]

Here's my personal take on the matter...

First off, my interpretation of your "power" is what I would call tightness, or perhaps even punch. That aggressive metal chug sound, like Metallica or something similar...The Recto is not the ideal amp for this. The Recto is more suited to for modern, deep chugging metal. Not so much the tight stuff. Now, the problem I sense is that the drop C tuning is creating too much bass for the amp to handle. The amp is already bassy, and you're throwing more on top. Now there's nothing wrong with playing drop C...You just have to learn how to tame it. Aside from getting higher gauge strings (.12), try to invest first off in a ts808 overdrive pedal, or whichever overdrive pedal you can find in So A. Turn the gain down on it and the volume up. Place the pedal between the guitar and amp. If you still want more, get a graphic EQ and cut some of the bass frequencies.

As suggested, read the manual and learn the interaction of the knobs. Try to think of Treble as attack and bite. Mids are clarity, stiffness, and creaminess. Bass is tight, deep, or muddy. Presence is sparkle, brightness, and shrillness. Furthermore, don't crank the Gain. Cranking the Gain adds bass and lower mids. Try to achieve gain through high volume. Good luck!

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

+1 to all above...mostly it's your settings I think. Try this:
Ch3 Modern
Gain 1:30-2:00
Bass 12:00
Mid 11:00
Treb 11:30
Pres 10:00 or so

on the back: Bold, diodes, loop select to ftsw, loop send 1:30 (even if footswitched off or nothing connected. this is important!) loop mix all the way down if nothing connected.

Set your output in the 11:00-1:00 range and use the channel masters to control your volume. If this does not produce crushing metal tone, then the problem is likely in your guitars. Try backing the pickups a bit farther from the strings.

 

[155]

I agree with no glass, but what really helped mine was just the eq, in the loop it gets you the definiton your looking for. I dont think there are many peolple on here wtih recto that dont have an eq.

 

[ollievk]

irst off, my interpretation of your "power" is what I would call tightness, or perhaps even punch. That aggressive metal chug sound, like Metallica or something similar...The Recto is not the ideal amp for this.

That is true in a sense but if dialed in right man, you can get a nice tight tone. Everything else you've said is spot on, definitely need an EQ in the loop, it makes the biggest difference. Also with regards to the mids, I've got mine at about 1 o'clock, I used to have them scooped almost completely and I got an awful tone with no clarity, mids = good times!

 

[TomiR]

Well, a good OD pedal like an Ibanez Tubescreamer is essential to get a great metal tone, in my opinion of course! I always use one when tracking metal guitars no matter what amp I am using.

It removes some of the muddy low end from the guitar signal itself and really pushes the preamp tubes. And no, it is not used for adding distortion.

If you have a 3channel Triple, then I suggest using very little presence, since the red channel is a bright channel to begin with. I usually turn it completely off, but settings from off to about 9o'clock are fine. A lot of people are "afraid" to do this, and then the go around complaining ho harsh and fizzy their sound is... Low presence settings on the red channel is in my opinion the perfect mixture of tightness and smoothness.

http://www.soundclick.com/tomir
I just uploaded a clip I tracked with my Triple Recto+Rectifier Standard 4X12" cab. A bit sloppy since I had a hard time hearing what I was playing, because my iso-phones are still on the way.

Two guitar tracks, one left one right and no EQ etc. Just a low pass filter at 12khz. Other than that, completely raw tracks.

The settings were:

Red Channel, modern
Diodes, bold

loop off

bass: 11o'clock
mid: 10o'clock
treble:11o'clock

gain: 12o'clock
master:9o'clock
Presence: All the way down

Ibanez TS9
gain:9o'clock
tone: 10o'clock
level:12o'clock

The guitar used was a Schecter Hellraiser C7 w. EMG 707's. The mic was a Shure SM57.

Oh, and I would suggest looking at some better pickups. There are a lot of pu's to choose from, but for metal, the EMG 81 or the 85 are great.

 

[wildrat666]

That's odd. You should get CRUSHING tones out of your Epi Les Paul. I have an LP Studio with stock humbuckers, and it's way more crushing than my DiMarzio-equipped HM Strat through my Single-Recto Solo 50.

the single recto is tighter than a triple recto. and for the tread use a overdrive pedal gain:0 treble 12 oclock and volume max. it gives you a tighter sound. keep the bass down(12 oclock) mid 11 oclock treble 1 oclock, prescence 12 oclock gain 1-2 oclock and master vol 12 oclock(let the tubes work for you) bold and modern setting.this gives you a tight metal sound

 

[lailer75]

TomiR! perfect example of true recto meaness! was that a 2ch?

 

[TomiR]

TomiR! perfect example of true recto meaness! was that a 2ch?

Thanks!

Nope, just my 3channel Triple with stock tubes ...and the settings I posted before.

 

[Blackhand]

Thanks a lot for the responses and great advice everyone. I think theres enough here to get me on the right track.

I have read the manual =) and have achieved some great sounding tones on my rec and its probably one of the better pieces of musical equipment I'll ever get, I've just been struggling to get a metal tone atleast to start from.

I just can't seem to get that setting where I get those "monster palm mutes" and pinch harmonics don't come through clearly at all and don't have that squeal. My solid state Cubes were pretty easy to achieve that on, just set them to rectifier and shred. They were fine for practicing metal, they just didn't sound that appealing, but the mutes and pinches came out fine. My rec is kind of the other way around at the moment.


Anyway, I'm going back to the EQ with some of the settings provided to see if I can get some success. I'm thinking my next purchase will either be a Ibanez TS808 or Ibanez TS9.

I know the sound I'm looking for is in this monster, I just have to find it!

Thanks again.

 

[Gtr_Pkr]

+1 for the EQ in the loop. See if you can get a 10 band EQ. That gives you the most control over the sound.

+1 for the 81 and 85 EMG pickups. I put them in my Gibson V. When I play that through my Triple Recto.....Awesome metal sound. Still remains tight with the fast, palm-muted stuff.

:twisted:

 

[vertigo_]

if u want straight up metalzzzzzzzz tone. Get emg in ur guitar. Emg + recto = BRUTALZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

[jdurso]

just to balance the thread concerning pickups if your not an active pickup type look into the PRS HFS..... its one of the hottest pickups ive played outside my esp eclipse with emg 81s.... also the PRS Tremonti Treble is PRS's hottest pickup.... i highly highly recommend those two pickups for the purpose of metal, plus they clean up better than emgs IMO

i 100% agree with the eq in the loop ... to me its a must for the type of sound your looking for..... ontop of that i would also look into an attenuator so you can crank the power amp (which will give you the tone your looking for) while at the same time you can tame the volume.... although if your looking for bedroom levels the attenuator is even a waste of time ... actually for a bedroom amp a recto in general is a wate of time... but if your more concerned with the tone a reasonable levels an attenuator will make a huge difference

 

[alex1564]

You can also put an EQ in front of your amp, with spectacular results. "EQ in the loop" is pretty popular on this board, but you can do it either way. In front of the amp, you're adjusting for the guitar. Boost the cutting/chunking frequencies (800 hz), cut the mud (400, 1.6k), and also use it as a boost - that's what most people use their ODs for anyways.

 

[Blackhand]

Hey everyone, thanks for the replies once again, its all been incredibly helpful.

Just today I was able to find a Ibanez TS9DX in stock (to find anything semi-decent in stock and on the shelf in South Africa is pretty **** amazing) and grabbed it. I was actually looking for a Maxon OD9, but I won't be able to get one of those here unless I get it specially imported and likely for a ludicrous price.

Back to the point, picked up my les paul, put the TS9DX infront of the amp, and the improvement was immediate, without doing any fine tuning, the tone went from good to absolutely incredible. The monstrous sound of Drop C on my guitar is coming through now and I was really amazed at the difference. Pushing up to higher volumes, it just got better, sounding incredibly aggressive, the best ear bleed money can buy.

Next thing I would get is probably an EQ, mostly just to try dial in on my own unique tone. As it is though, I'm very happy with this amp now and it sounds CRUSHING without having to pump up the gain/treb, I just use them at 9 to 1oclock now and thats probably all I'd ever need. After that, likely an NS2 as there is a smaaaaall amount of hiss when the guitars volume is up, the amp is at extreme volumes and I'm idling, but its barely even noticeable then.

Thanks again to everyone.

 

[Sustain]

get a nice EQ and put it in the loop. every once in a while I turn my EQ off so I can remember how much better it sounds when its on.

 

[kingster911]

EQ's in the loop, OD's in front yes. The HFS pu's just cliqued in my head as maybe what I should put in my McCarty because I couldn't ever sell that thing. I like have to keep it for the rest of my life because I have it and it's so comfortable but I need it less muddy. Does anyone think this is unethical?!

 

[vitriol666]

All beeing said about cranking the mids and the useful explanation about how tone controls on rectos work, is very important and crucial to getting a good and usable metal sound out of it.

Scooped mids might sound cool when you are practising alone but in a band setting your guitar will drown in the other instruments.

The tightness of the chunks and palm mutings also depend a lot on your pu's and the distance between your pu's and the strings, and of course your technique. Cheaper guitars usually have sloppyer and less tight pickups, at least in my experience. Don't be afraid of making the distance a little bit bigger than you might be used to, you'd be surprised how much this has to say for clarity and tight response.

That beeing said, I have a 2 ch. triple rectifier currently with 6L6 tubes. I keep the mids cranked fairly high but it still does not seem to give me enough mids, or the "right mids". Cranked all the way up the tone is pretty much the same as on 3 or 4 o'clock. At least it does not add the type of mids that i like. My question would be if it would make sense to swap tubes to EL34 to squeeze more or different mids out of the amp?