mark iii vs mark iv

[trem]

Hi All,

This is my first post. Since i'm new to boogies I hope you guys can shed some light to my question. I have a chance on buying a black stripe mark III and a mark IV A for roughly the same price.

The speaker in the mark III has been changed to a vintage 30 by the previous owner. The clean sound was good, although a little too fat. Reverb is a little weak, so no fender clone here. The lead channel was however very good. It has gobs of gain and lots of crunch. I couldn't dial in a smooth sound though, which is understandable since I only tried it for less than 1 hour. Presence control is very powerful, as someone else pointed out here. Loved it with minimal tweaking.

The mark IV is all original. Clean channel was better than mark III. Reverb was much better also. Much more similar to a fender. The lead sound was however kind of weak. There's a lot of gain, but not as I expected from a mark IV (hey Hetfield used this thing). There's not much "body" to the sound, if that makes any sense. Even though the EV speaker is still there, the bass is missing. The overall feel is stiff and sterile. It's a flagship model, how could it sound like this? I know there's so much tweaking to be done, and tube brands to experiment with.

Had I not found this forum (and if not for the veeeery small price difference between the two), I would have jumped at the mark III instantly. Please, help me make up my mind. Thanks a lot.

~trem

 

[4Draw]

Audibly? I'd take the Mk III in a heartbeat. And it looks like you thought it sounded good too. Concerning its clean sound: with another speaker or better settings you should be getting a fenderesque clean out of it in a little while. The reverb....I'll always use outboard digital reverb/delay etc, it sounds better to me. My Quad Pre has fantastic tubedriven springreverb though, which is VERY good, it might be the best reverb I've ever heard, but that's not the case with most heads and it's also not the case with MK III's.

The greenstripe MK III I had & tested was perfect, HOWEVER (and here it is) it is NOT as versatile as the MK IV. You've got a boatload of options, different channels, controls and whatnot on the MK IV, in the Mk III you don't have that much of it.

My solution? I plan on having several other MK heads in combination with the Quad Pre and the Studio pre for the ultimate in livesounds and versatility. Who said you can only use one amp for your sound, anyways?

----------------

I'd also suggest running the MK III Combo with an extension cab or perhaps even head or rackmount it to go into a 4x12 or something, which will make it sound even huger!

 

[Boogiebabies]

Here is what I would do. Slap them both on a credit card and try them at home with your guitars and your cabinets and tubes. If the store has a decent return policy, take back the one you dont like. The MK III is a beast and has the same clean channel as the MK IV, but the shared EQ makes it a bit harder to get a good clean, crunch and lead tone out of the same amp. When I play out or gig, I take the MK IV EV combo and a Mesa 1X12 EV ported Theile. It's huge, versatile and all three channels can be balanced for the necessary output of the venue.

 

[Shep]

i would take the mk iv becasue you can resell it for more and get a blue or red stripe mk iii if you aren't happend...

 

[Shep]

and there sounds like there is somthing abit funny with the mk iv..bad tubes..not sure..?

 

[trem]

Hey all,

Thanks for the replies. I knew it! You guys love them both. :?

Just to give you an idea, the mark IV I tried sounded almost exactly like a SansAmp GT-2 pedal on boogie settings through a JCM-900 set clean. I love the GT-2, but I was hoping for more dynamics and crunch from the real thing. Then again, I only tried it at master volume (output level) 2. Do things get better when you play it louder (say 3 onwards)?

Shep, yeah, I thought about that. Changing tubes are easy. Just afraid I'd get disappointed just the same even with tube change.

~trem

 

[4Draw]

Hey all,

Thanks for the replies. I knew it! You guys love them both. :?

Just to give you an idea, the mark IV I tried sounded almost exactly like a SansAmp GT-2 pedal on boogie settings through a JCM-900 set clean. I love the GT-2, but I was hoping for more dynamics and crunch from the real thing. Then again, I only tried it at master volume (output level) 2. Do things get better when you play it louder (say 3 onwards)?

Shep, yeah, I thought about that. Changing tubes are easy. Just afraid I'd get disappointed just the same even with tube change.

~trem

Things definitly get better if you're able to open her up more. (And it's that way in ALL of life's important matters :wink: )

 

[Russ]

The MK III is a beast and has the same clean channel as the MK IV, but the shared EQ makes it a bit harder to get a good clean, crunch and lead tone out of the same amp. When I play out or gig, I take the MK IV EV combo and a Mesa 1X12 EV ported Theile. It's huge, versatile and all three channels can be balanced for the necessary output of the venue.

I would take the Mark IV over the III anyday. The fact that you have options is the saving grace with this comparison. The bottom that you say the amp lacked was probably just in your settings. I get more than enough bottom out of mine. I also run the EVM-12L in the combo and a Theile with an EVM-12L. But I have run it with several different 4x12s with various tones coming out of it all the while. The IV is just truly amazing once you get past the learning curve. I am not surprised that you weren't happy in the short time that you tried it out. I took me about a month of tweaking and reconfiguring my setup to be really happy. I was pleased though after about a day. I just learned that it is not a plug and play amp until you learn the controls well. Take some time to read through the posts here and fool around with that Mark IV. I think it is the only Mark series amp I will ever need though a IIC+ would be nice some day for posterity. I do not have any plans to get another Mark until after I get my Recto fix. I am planning on a 2 channel DR. Between the two you can get just about any Mesa sound you would want. Again I think your short trial period was too short to fully gain any sort of appreciation for the amp. If you can get the Mark IV for the price of a Mark III then I do not know what you hesitated on. However if the Mark III was just overpriced then it is doubly good that you did not buy the III. If the Mark IV was selling at the price of a III then good luck if it is still for sale. If it is, I would buy it even if it needed tubes. Chances are though that you just had some bad setting dialed in. I know that I dialed in some terrible sounding tones when I was first noodling mine. The fact is that you can actually make the amp have too much bottom so I can't see why you were not getting enough bottom. I will say that the combo with just the EVM-12L is not as appealing at first listen. It is not until you really open it up that it shines. Then in conjunction with another cabinet it becomes incredible (hence the Theile). I would pair that combo with at minimum a sealed cabinet if not a ported one. Then, the choices become endless for your choice of tone.

My Mark IVA is probably the best amp I have bought in a long time. Especially since I had limited exposure to it prior to the purchase.

You said that you didn't get what you expected a la Hetfield. Well, to be honest, Hetfield used the Mark IV true. He also used Marshalls for power amps and is known to use Marshall cabes loaded with V30s. In the Year and a Half in the Life of video you see a Mesa footswitch during the recording sessions. It looks a bit more to me like the FU-2 not the FU-3 but might just be an older FU-3. In his gear list that many people have come up on either through eyewitness or interview he has used Mark II, IIB, IIC+, III, IV, Studio Quad, Triaxis and Dual Rectifiers. These are just the Mesa amps too. Then there is the Jose Arrendondo modified SLP that belongs to Kirk. In addition to this he has used Wizard, Deizel, Krank, etc. all in a search for his tone/distortion. This doesn't even include the vintage stuff like the Supro or other crap Bob Rock had him try out during the Black album recording sessions. So if it is a Hetfield sound that you are after then first decide which period and then get the gear that he was using. It will take a while to get some of those things so I figure you can practice your all down stroking method in the meantime.

Just out of curiostiy what kind of guitar and pickups were you using for your try out?

Also FYI, the Mark IV can be a very tight little amp. This might be part of what you were experiencing with the EVM-12L. The EVM-12L is a very accurately reproducing type of speaker. It can really show your bad settings, playing, and guitar. I have found that the Mark IV really tells on you more than most other tube amps. The EVM-12L further shows your hand. This is not to say that the EVM-12L is not a good speaker. It is a great speaker with an excellent range and great power handling capability. Just remember that this amp will show your weaknesses. It doesn't provide that over blended blanket you find with most amps. Instead it is very articulate. This is a reason why James liked the amp. It is because it could keep up with his mayhem without mushing out.

If nothing else, do like Shep said and buy the IV. If you don't like it then you can always get your money out of it and get a III if you really lik eit better. Just be sure to give it enough time and really play with it before you give up.

 

[trem]

Very cool Russ. Thanks for the informative post. :wink:

I used my trusty old Ibanez RG with DiMarzio Air Zone when I tested both amps. The Mk IV is selling for Mk III's price, so yeah, most boogie lovers would have jumped at it right away. Actually I'm not into Hetfield's tone at all; was just thinking that it should be at least capable of getting the same amount of gain, yet it wasn't. I really really hope it was only the settings or bad tubes.

Reading through everyone's post I get the feeling that a Mk IV is an amp that you can grow old with, and one that requires hard work and lots of TLC to make it work. Hey, sounds like a wife. I love my wife. :wink:

 

[Shep]

settings!! the mk iv is the most touchy amp in the world...it took me two months of playing to get the RIGHT sound...big bass thats tight and nice thick gain...this amp is nice... the III is ALOT easy to setup...

 

[trem]

I'd also suggest running the MK III Combo with an extension cab or perhaps even head or rackmount it to go into a 4x12 or something, which will make it sound even huger!

4Draw, I did exactly that. The owner has a standard recto 4x12 and we hooked up the III to it. Boy did it sounded huge.

 

[X-1]

I am a long time MkIII owner (I am the original owner of a Red Stripe model).

The Reverb on my MkIII is not that great. As you said it will not put you in Fender land at all.

I removed my MkIII reverb tank long ago. I use a Peavey Valverb. It is far superior (and gives a tremolo as well.)

On the subject of which to get.... I prefer the MkIII myself but I am biased. Hell they are both great Boogie amps so I think you have a situation of 6 of 1 or half dozen of the other. You can't make a wrong choice here. I personally would lean towards the MkIII because it appears to be a bit simpler to find your tone out of it. If you bought the MkIV though it would also be an A.O.K. decision.

 

[trem]

X-1, thanks for your input. Like you said, either choice is good. Just have to make up my mind on which is more suitable for me in the long run.

Another question, is the preamp tube layout on mark IV A the same as on mark IV B?

Also, if anyone has the manual for the mark IV A (the one at the boogie web is for B), could you please post it somewhere so I can download it. I've read somewhere the sample settings are different.

Thanks a bunch guys.

 

[4Draw]

I'd also suggest running the MK III Combo with an extension cab or perhaps even head or rackmount it to go into a 4x12 or something, which will make it sound even huger!

4Draw, I did exactly that. The owner has a standard recto 4x12 and we hooked up the III to it. Boy did it sounded huge.

Great! Yeah it will fill up whatever room/club you want AND chew and spit out whatever Marshall your friend is playing while doing so! :lol:

 

[Russ]

The Mark IVA preamp circuit is very similar to that of the IIC+. In the B they changed the design. Look through the posts. The out of print Mark IVA manual was posted not too long ago (about a month or two ago). The settings are a little different. Also there is a little more information that is A specific. The B manual can help with some things but if you get an A you will need an A manual.

FWIW the Mark IVA sounds huge with a 4x12 also.

 

[trem]

Russ, thanks for the pointer. Just found the manual. ThinDave, my hats off to you man.

 

[NoHayBanda!]

Hi

I joined this forum just before reading this thread. I own a triaxis for several years, and bought a mark IV short head last month. I also own a 20/20 power amp and 2 'roadready' cabs with one EVM each.

I never heard nothing about Mark IV having version A and version B. I think mine might be the A version, since its back panel is different from the images shown in mesa's web site (I don't have stereo returns in the fx loop).

I have 3 questions:

1: What are the differences between the two versions, sonically speaking
2: I found my mark IV not having as much sustain as the triaxis. What do you think?
3: Where can I find/download/buy/steal the manual for the A version? I suppose the manual that can be downloaded from the mesa website is for version B

Thanks in advance.

 

[Antoine]

Contact me via PM, give me your E-mail addy, and i will send to you the A version manual !

 

[Boogiebabies]

The solo on Torna Una Volta is a clinic on how to make a perfect solo.
The tone, dynamics, musicanship and emotion are phenominal.
It speaks to my soul.

How can I get the CD ? Out of all the crap in the world, this is a guitar player that I would have to have in my daily rotation.

Antoine,

Thanks for giving your gift to the world.

Oddly, we have an affinity for Music Man guitars as well.
With the limited amount of space to list my gear, I cannot get my
95,96 and 97 Luke's, 02 JP with Piezo's and a 91 EVH.

 

[Antoine]

Boogiebabies, your comments about me are always exagerated, (others members are going to think i pay you for these comments...lol) but sincerely, i thank you very much for all these words.
I will PM you soon !
Know that i've got a 03 Axis Super Sport HH with a Vintage MM Tremolo,
and a 99 Luke II in Luke Blue !
Most of the recordings are done with the Luke, but the Torna Una Volta song was done with the Axis !
Music Man Guitars and Mesa Boogie Amps are a perfect match :wink: