Mark III Speaker Replacement?

[Wolfchild]

Hi guys, wondering what are the sonic implications of changing the speaker in my Mark III (Blue stripe, 60w, reverb, EQ).
Currently it has the Black Shadow "type EVM" speaker which is fine for cleans but strikes me as a bit too Hi-Fi on the dirty channels. I'm looking for a smoother sound, more like my Studio .22 which has a Black Shadow "type VS-12" speaker in it.
Is the speaker that critical in determining the final sound of an amp? (I know a few people who say it is much more significant than what tubes you use).
Can anyone recommend a decent replacement that could take some of the edge off the top end?
How do Mesa's own replacements (C-90?) compare?

Thanks in advance,


W.

 

[DaveP]

The C-90 would be worth a try. Also you might want to try turning down the presence to 1 or 2 or off. That has a
big effect on the overhaul feel of the amp. Setting that to high can have a negative effect on the tone. Brittle sounding.
You might find the EVM is perfect.

 

[dodger916]

I've come to like the C-90. I think it's smoother than a 12-L, and pretty transparent for a Celestion.

 

[Wolfchild]

Thanks for the input guys.

Don't think I've ever had the presence above 3 (usually it's off), but I still find the amp a bit too clinical sounding for my tastes.

Played several theatre gigs a week or so ago and each time I DI'd using a Palmer Speaker sim. Believe it or not I found the tone to be much warmer, smoother and more responsive to changes on my guitars controls through my monitor mix (ie the direct tone), than it was standing near my amp. This is what leads me to believe a speaker change is in order as clearly I have no problem with the sound of the MKIII's preamp.

Any more thoughts?


W.

 

[boogiemon]

just keep in mind that you're going to loose some low-end response if you jettison that EV.

 

[thunda1216]

a good substitute is the Eminence V12. Nice and smooth, not too trebly and doesn't break up too early. 120 watts rated, too.

 

[cho]

I like the Weber California (ceramic), but I mostly use the clean or crunch channel, and I play rock/blues, not metal. It is smoother than the EV, and has more detail and clearer, fuller bass than the C90. You wont get the crisp edge that the Vintage 30 or Greenback will give you for crunch/lead sounds, but, alas.... I don't think there will ever be one speaker that is best for all sounds...that is my dilemma with all my 2/3 channel amps!

 

[rvschulz]

i have several different speaker setups - the only one i DON't have now is the single C90. in my purple-stripe combo - MS-12. 2 different vertical 2x12s - one is a metal grill w C90 and EVM12 , the other is a recto with V30s.

if i am just going to grind ... V30 cab - loud and distorted noise monster. if i want really clear and precise, the C90/EVM12 ... it does not hide my mistakes. believe it. best sounding cab. i play these cabs with a green stripe head.

however. my overall favorite is actually the MS-12. i can go from jazz and get that "dull bottom" without changing from 10s to anything heavy and everything between. i fi had to have only one ... this is it.

your ears must be tested by listening, everyone hears differently. good luck.

 

[Restless Rocks]

I've often wished Mesa would reissue the MS-12 Eminence. It sounds incredible plus it will fit in those rear mount situations(like the wide body combo) where the big cast frame of the EVM will not. That is one speaker to snag if you're lucky enough to see one.

 

[Wolfchild]

As an experiment, I plugged the speaker into the 4ohm jack and this has (to my ears), warmed the sound up a fair bit. Boogie manual says that this will not harm the amp (but may cause the power tubes to wear out faster), is this true?
Does plugging the speaker into the "wrong" input really change the sound or am I going mad :?

 

[boogiemon]

1) no

2) no


An 8 ohm speaker in a 4 ohm jack will help *preserve* the life of the tubes.
A 4 ohm speaker in a 8 ohm jack will wear the tubes faster.

changing the load/impedance that the amp sees does indeed affect the sound: some can't hear it, others can.

As an experiment, I plugged the speaker into the 4ohm jack and this has (to my ears), warmed the sound up a fair bit. Boogie manual says that this will not harm the amp (but may cause the power tubes to wear out faster), is this true?
Does plugging the speaker into the "wrong" input really change the sound or am I going mad :?

 

[Mutt-Dawg]

I'm a little late, but I have a Mark IIB, and a 4x12 cab with the MS-12 speakers. I made a 1x12 cab and put a Eminence Deltalite II 2512
in it and it sounded like the MS-12, except a LOT lighter.

 

[CoG]

Thanks for the input guys.

Don't think I've ever had the presence above 3 (usually it's off), but I still find the amp a bit too clinical sounding for my tastes.

Played several theatre gigs a week or so ago and each time I DI'd using a Palmer Speaker sim. Believe it or not I found the tone to be much warmer, smoother and more responsive to changes on my guitars controls through my monitor mix (ie the direct tone), than it was standing near my amp. This is what leads me to believe a speaker change is in order as clearly I have no problem with the sound of the MKIII's preamp.

Any more thoughts?


W.

Mark IIIs love Palmers, especially for crunchy-type sounds. My Palmer PGA-04 sounds awesome. It tames some of the harshness that's in the basic III sound without losing the aggressive openness that distinguishes it from the very 'smooth' MKIV. You gotta remember that the EVM-12 was chosen as a speaker because Mesa wanted to make the Mark combos really loud as well as versatile. The EVM has its strong points tonally but it's definitely not the only choice. Just avoid V30s unless they are REALLY broken in and preferably in a big-bottom cab like a Recto.

And yeah, the 4-ohm mismatch trick is pretty useful.

 

[Rhoads]

Keep your EVM !

 

[tommyg]

I have an Eminence Delta Pro 12-A in my MkIII combo (400 watts!). It's not sterile like the EV; has a 2: voice coil and won't color your sound. Has a warmth to it and is really sweet when using the gain!

 

[MrMarkIII]

Try a speaker with less sensitivity. An EVM 12L has a sensitivity rating of 100 dB. The Celestion G12-T100 is 97 dB.

 

[Wolfchild]

Went with the Eminence Deltalite II 2512 in the end. Very happy with this speaker!

IMO, I've now lost the sterile, hi-fi sound of the EV but have preserved the aggressive voicing of the MKIII.

I was also considering the III+ mod that I read about elsewhere on this forum but with this new speaker, I don't feel I need to smooth the sound out. Seems the Deltalite has made the inherent MKIII tone more palatable to these ears, not warmer per se, but certainly more natural and organic.

Also shaved several kilos of the weight of the amp!

Thanks to everyone for their informed opinions.

Now to fit the EV into a thiele cab and see how that goes...


W.

 

[igfraso]

A 4 ohm speaker in a 8 ohm jack will wear the tubes faster.

Is that all? Or are you damaging the transformer as well?

 

[MrMarkIII]

The Eminence Texas Heat in my Mark III tames the icepick beast.

 

[gummx97]

The Eminence Texas Heat in my Mark III tames the icepick beast.

Will the Texas Heat fit a combo without any mods as far as the cab is concerned? Straight out remove and replace?