LSC/LSS owners; are you happy with channel2?Want to fix it?

[Charles Reeder]

Just A Reminder:

If anyone wants to 'really' know what this thread is about...you definitely need to go back and read the first posting...very carefully...and... then skip about if you want to.

Look for the postings from those who have actually done the 'mod' themselves...as several people have preferred their amp as it was before the 'mod'...however... even more people have liked their amp much better after the 'mod'. Reading carefully may prompt you to try it...or it may help you decide that for you it's best to leave well enough alone.

Certainly the mod is actually one of the easiest you could possibly contemplate...much less involved than the popular 'parallel-to-series' effects loop mod done by some Rectifier owners.

And it would really be sad were you to "cut your losses and go with another amp"...if yours could be made to sound how you wanted it to with a simple 'mod' that takes very little time, no additional parts, and doesn't even void the warranty! That last word from Mesa themselves.

Regards: Charles

 

[Spikey Si]

Well, after some dithering, I have put my LSS into a local repairman to do the mod (I know nothing about electronics and have scared off by the threat of immediate death via the dreaded Caps). I was going to do it a few weeks ago, but thought I would give ch2 some proper attention to try and get the sound I am after.

After many hours of trying, it still wasn't happening. I just LOVE the sound of Ch1 clean and crunchy but the higher gain stuff just didn't move me.

I then bought a Blackstar Dual Valve Distortion pedal. WOW. There it was immediately. Sounded good on ch2, but sounded great on a clean ch1.

This led me to decide that the ideal situation would be ch1 on a crunchy setting, (my current favorite sound in the amp - ALL my guitars sound amazing with it) and a modded ch2 on clean that I can drive with the 2 channel Blackstar. This gives me the beautiful clean sound, 2 amazing crunch settings and a full on lead sound, all of which I can boost with the solo switch.

Getting the amp back on Tuesday or Wednesday and I CAN'T WAIT!!! I will let you know what I think....

 

[gtrdaddy]

The gain pot on CH2 has a more aggressive sweep than that of CH1. The master volume pot on CH2 has a less aggressive sweep in gain. This is done intentionally by Boogie for a couple of reasons. They compensate the output of CH2's higher gain structure in the master in order to help prevent accidental blasts in volume if one was to have the drive switch engaged and both masters at similar positions (i.g. both @ 11:00). The other reason is to give the amplifier a second "personality" which behaves distinctly different than CH1. Variety is the spice of life. Now, if you want to clone CH1 with CH2, all you have to do is lower the gain on CH2, and bump the master volume. You WILL get an exact clone of CH1 if that is what you are looking for.

Happy Noodling!

Jamie

 

[Lou]

Hi,

I read about ten pages as I'm new to it but then jumped.

So as I write I am waiting for my LSS to arrive.

So can the same be true in reverse ( frogive me please if it was discussed in pages 11-14!!)....making ch1 sound like ch2.
I sold a 66 black face pro to buy this...and had been tossed between the stiletto and the LSS .....

the more of this thread I read the more I worry I wont like ch1

 

[Charles Reeder]

Hey Lou:

Mesa has confirmed that the two channels are identical except for the thick/clean/thicker switch and the 'drive' switch and control pot on channel-2.
The difference in the gain structures of the two channels is the direct result of the reversal of positions of the gain and master pots on channel-2.

Therefore...yes... you could do the opposite of the 'mod' this thread proposes...and make channel-1 sound like channel-2 by swapping the positions of the gain and master pots on channel-1.

However...I believe almost everyone (including those who are happy with channel-2 without the 'mod')...will tell you... they like channel-1 as it is.

When you actually get and play your LSS...it is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY that you will want to 'mod' channel-1 in any way. You may or may not want to 'mod' channel-2...but so far I've heard of very few people who were dissatisfied with channel-1.

In any event...congratulations on your purchase of the Lone Star Special...and I really hope that you enjoy it!

Charles

 

[fdesalvo]

Just as a side note to changing pots, the Mesa manual for the DR actually suggests changing the presence pot on channel 3 to the part number on channel 2 to have identical channels 2 and 3 (or visa versa), and that one pot being a little different makes a huge difference in the overall tonality, so I could see the lonestar being the same, 1 or 2 pots makes a big difference. The lonestar is the next amp I'm getting so it's good to know this option is there, thanks Charles.

You are essentially swapping resistors. It makes perfect sense .

 

[Lou]

Thank you Charles.

 

[Spikey Si]

The gain pot on CH2 has a more aggressive sweep than that of CH1. The master volume pot on CH2 has a less aggressive sweep in gain. This is done intentionally by Boogie for a couple of reasons. They compensate the output of CH2's higher gain structure in the master in order to help prevent accidental blasts in volume if one was to have the drive switch engaged and both masters at similar positions (i.g. both @ 11:00). The other reason is to give the amplifier a second "personality" which behaves distinctly different than CH1. Variety is the spice of life. Now, if you want to clone CH1 with CH2, all you have to do is lower the gain on CH2, and bump the master volume. You WILL get an exact clone of CH1 if that is what you are looking for.

Happy Noodling!

Jamie

Lowering the gain and boosting the master does NOT give the same tone. Not to my ears anyway. Even when I think they are the same, I switch to ch1 and the sound 'opens up' in some way. The sounds are close, but ch1 just sounds better... If the mod purely affects the gain then I will probably end up switching back, after all, if you want less gain then just twist the knob, but from what I get from reading the previous 14 pages and quotes from people who have done the mod is that is DOES also affect the tone. If it does, then I will be one happy camper...

 

[Spikey Si]

OK, so I did the mod.

The cleans on Channel 2 are vastly improved. The Drive seems about the same, but I will have to play with it some more.

There are definitely different model numbers stamped on the pots, but they measure almost exactly the same.

This has got to have something to do with the taper of the pots. I don't think that it has much to do with the fact that Mesa didn't want to have the channels sound the same. Look at the DR's. They have channel cloning.


I bet that somebody just thought it sounded better to them and that is why they send them out that way.

I'll leave it like this for a few days and see how I like it.

So, now you have had time to assess things, what are your views on the mod? Does it just alter the gain or the basic sound of ch2 as well?

 

[fdesalvo]

Lowering the gain and boosting the master does NOT give the same tone. Not to my ears anyway. Even when I think they are the same, I switch to ch1 and the sound 'opens up' in some way. The sounds are close, but ch1 just sounds better... If the mod purely affects the gain then I will probably end up switching back, after all, if you want less gain then just twist the knob, but from what I get from reading the previous 14 pages and quotes from people who have done the mod is that is DOES also affect the tone. If it does, then I will be one happy camper...

I'm not understanding how this mod is even effective. You are dealing with variable resistors with different taper characteristics. If both pots are of the same value, then I'd say that any differencs are nonexistent.

Now, if one pot is 1Meg and the other is 500K, then you'd only notice a difference if the 1Meg pot was placed into the suspect channel. Furthermore, you'd only notice a difference in tone if the pot was at or beyond 50% of it's sweep.

I've been away from schematics for a long time and it's been many years since I've smelled the beautiful aroma of solder, so forgive my ignorance .

Edit: Nevermind, Charles, I just read your post. I need more coffee.

 

[Charles Reeder]

The gain pot on CH2 has a more aggressive sweep than that of CH1. The master volume pot on CH2 has a less aggressive sweep in gain. This is done intentionally by Boogie for a couple of reasons. They compensate the output of CH2's higher gain structure in the master in order to help prevent accidental blasts in volume if one was to have the drive switch engaged and both masters at similar positions (i.g. both @ 11:00). The other reason is to give the amplifier a second "personality" which behaves distinctly different than CH1. Variety is the spice of life. Now, if you want to clone CH1 with CH2, all you have to do is lower the gain on CH2, and bump the master volume. You WILL get an exact clone of CH1 if that is what you are looking for.

Happy Noodling!

Jamie

Lowering the gain and boosting the master does NOT give the same tone. Not to my ears anyway. Even when I think they are the same, I switch to ch1 and the sound 'opens up' in some way. The sounds are close, but ch1 just sounds better... If the mod purely affects the gain then I will probably end up switching back, after all, if you want less gain then just twist the knob, but from what I get from reading the previous 14 pages and quotes from people who have done the mod is that is DOES also affect the tone. If it does, then I will be one happy camper...

Hey Spikey Si:

You bring up the point that I (and several others) have been trying to impress upon 'doubters' since this thread began...which is that you CANNOT get channel-2 to sound like channel-1; just by setting the gain lower and the master higher on channel-2 to compensate for a different 'taper' in the pots.

Actually I agree with those who say that it seems as if you SHOULD be able to duplicate channel-1 by adjusting the gain and master on channel-2.
Assuming that the values of the pots are the same and a different 'taper' is all that is involved... then it really does 'seem logical' that it would work.

However, the simple fact is that swapping the gain and master pots on channel-2 opens up sounds that SIMPLY CANNOT be duplicated by 'fiddling' with the controls on channel-2 (without the 'mod').
I don't know why this is so...as I am completely 'unqualified' by training or knowledge to explain it. Also, it seems to be 'stumping' those whose knowledge, training and experience should enable them to explain it as well.

It's a 'fact'...established (to the complete satisfaction) of those of us who have done the 'mod'...that the simple act of swapping the placement of the gain and master pots in channel-2...duplicates not only the 'onset of gain' in channel-1; but 'opens up' the sound of channel-2 and makes it more 'transparent'. After the 'mod'...channel-2 'breathes'. In short; the 'mod' changes the tone as well as the gain.

And yes...it (the 'mod') changes the tone for the better in my opinion. The lows become rounder and fuller and the highs ring out more clearly. It is an overused used description (but it fits); to me channel-2 (before the 'mod') always sounded muffled as if the amp was stuck underneath a quilt or a blanket. The mid-range seemed to predominate the tone; and the bass although there in abundance, seemed as if the bottom octave had been 'clipped off'. The highs heard in channel-1 were just simply non-existent. I did find uses for the 'stock' sound of channel-2; (but not many)...usually I simply avoided using channel-2 altogether. I Now use channel-2 frequently.

There have been a few who have done the 'mod'; preferred the original sound, and switched back to the stock configuration. There have been far more people who have done the 'mod', loved it, and wouldn't dream of switching back. There is no 'right or wrong' choice. It is entirely a matter of personal taste.
But if you desire for channel-2 to have the 'openness and transparency' of channel-1... if that will help to make you a 'happy camper'; then the 'mod' is the 'right choice' for you.

As always: I ask anyone who tries the 'mod' to post their impressions. Whether you loved the sound or not...your posting may help someone else make the decision to try the 'mod' or leave their amp as it is.

Regards: Charles

 

[creekhed]

I have been mulling this over for some time...still not sure if I wanna do it.

 

[Spikey Si]

I have been mulling this over for some time...still not sure if I wanna do it.

Well, after plenty of mulling of my own, I should get my 'Reedered' LSS back on Tues/Weds and will post on here what I think about it...

 

[Spikey Si]

WELL...... Picked up my amp this afternoon, and what can I say? The mod does exactly what it says on the tin.

With settings the same (at all gains and tone settings) the 2 channels are now pretty much identical. Add in the tone switch and the second gain stage and you have channel 1 plus added bollocks (if you will pardon my French...). This is exactly what I was after! I have not been able to crank things up as yet, but even at low volume I am getting much closer to the sounds in my head.

The mod has changed the way the gain and drive stages interact with each other, and so all previous ideas about settings need to be scrapped and re-discovered, but now, instead of ch2 having a basic sound I was unhappy with and trying to find a solution, I am starting with a basic sound that I LOVE (ie ch1) and adding extra grit etc.

In Summary, if the title of this post describes you, then DO THIS MOD!!!!

Charles, Thankyou!!!!

 

[Spikey Si]

I wonder if my amp is the first in England to get 'Reedered'?????! Wow, a UK first...

 

[Charles Reeder]

Hey Spikey Si!

Congratulations and welcome to the club!

I think you might indeed be the first in the UK to do the mod...you're certainly the first to post results from there.

I did the 'mod' many months ago and I'm still finding settings I like. For example: Try setting the 'drive' higher than the 'gain'...I sometimes use 'drive' at about 2-o'clock and 'gain' at about 10-o'clock...with the 'thick' setting engaged. As you will discover...the possibilities are now endless.

Anyway...I'm really glad you like the results of the 'mod' and I want to thank you for being so quick to post your impressions...and to verify that the 'mod' does indeed do what is claimed for it.

I realize the 'mod' is not for everyone...but it does get rather tiresome hearing from people who are absolutely positive that the 'mod' can't possibly do what is claimed for it. In effect; they are pretty much saying that those of us who have done the 'mod' and enjoyed it are either suffering from delusions or lying!

I feel that once we get beyond that...we can get back to the basic issue which was from the beginning and still remains:

LSC/LSS owners: Are you happy with channel2? Want to fix it?

Anyway...thanks again for posting your results. Let us hear more from you once you get an opportunity to put the amp and 'mod' through their paces.

Regards: Charles

 

[Spikey Si]

Well, I have had a morning with the amp at a reasonable volume and I am definately happier with the amp post mod. I am getting a whole range of sounds at various levels of gain that hit the spot for me, whereas before the mod I spent a lot of time finding one sound that I was happy with.

I was concerned that there would be some loss of overall gain, but that is not the case at all, and at higher gain settings it all sounds less muddy to me.

It is still early days with the modded amp and there is still a lot of tweaking to be done, but I feel like this mod has given me half my amp back as I am now getting great sounds on both channels.

For those who asked earlier in the thread 'why would you want both channels to sound the same?', they don't. They come from the same tonal place, but the thick/thicker switch and extra gain stage give me all the range I want, with a voicing that works for me.

Before the mod I was starting to wonder if I should sell up and try another amp manufacturer, as I was only using half the amp and various pedals to beef things up, but no more.

For anyone who is wondering if they should do this mod: If you love channel 1 but find channel 2 uninspiring, then DO IT!

Charles, you are a legend!

 

[thirstypirate]

For those who asked earlier in the thread 'why would you want both channels to sound the same?', they don't. They come from the same tonal place, but the thick/thicker switch and extra gain stage give me all the range I want, with a voicing that works for me.

The fact that the two channels come from the same tonal beginnings is what makes the new channel 2 so much more usable. They compliment each other instead of sounding jarringly separate and transitions between the channels are smooth and musical. The hell with the old channel 2, this is what a Lonestar should sound like.

Thanks again, Charles.

 

[Barracuda]

WOW WOW WOW!!!

You're a genius! Man I just made the mod - had some trepidation as I haven't done any soldering since workshop in college. Anyway took about one hour and IT WORKS!! The amps usability has been increased 100% since I never really used Ch 2. Happy camper!

 

[Lou]

So.............apparently I have a "Reeder" special. I'm not sure how I feel about that.
I have nothing to compare it to. Seller intimates that the channel II had a funny sound to it and the modification corrected that.

I can't help but think that Mesa designed the amp just the way they wanted to. And most certainly could have "cloned" channel II had that been their intent.
And since I was tossed between the Stiletto and the LoneStar, I feel I'm missing out on what sounds like a channel that had more gain to it.

Not much into modding and soldering but I'm going to go back through this thread and figure out how to reverse the mod and see for myself.