Lonestar LSC LSS 'effects-send' level setting affect on Gain

[Bill11]

Hi,

I didn't see that this issue had its own thread, and I think it deserves its own thread, so especially the new Lonestar owners will not miss out on some of the Lonestars great sounds.

So if you own a Lonestar, don't forget that the position of the 'effects-send' level control on the back panel of the Lonestar will directly affect the overall gain that is available in your Lonestar.

I like the 'effects-send' level set about about 1 - 3 pm, but it can add great gain/sounds at higher and lower settings.

Lonestars rock!

 

[Charles Reeder]

Hey (again!) Bill11:

You are so right...it does need to be discussed!

I well remember a few days after I first got my Lonestar...I pulled the cover off...turned it on and began to play....and the amp had absolutely NO OOMPH! I was panic-stricken...what had happened to the full beautiful sound?

It took a while...but I finally realized that the effects level knob had been moved (how I don't know) and was set at about !0:00. I moved it back to about 1-O'Clock and my 'sound' was back. Huge Sigh Of Relief!

I use no effects in the loop...but my effects level knob does get a frequent workout! The changes in sound a little adjustment here can make are dramatic. Every time I tryout a different tube in V3 (especially); or change from a 12AT7 to a 12AX7 (or visa-versa) in the phase inverter (V5) position...an adjustment is called for.

Also, any change in power-tube-types warrants experimentation with the setting on the effects-level. Especially it seems; when going from 6L6 tube-types to 6V6 and/or YJs (or the reverse). Also; I sometimes use the EL34-bias-setting with certain 6V6s. Once again...time for adjustment.

Generally...just as you do...I seem to find the best results somewhere within the 1-O'Clock to 3-O'Clock setting range...but exceptions do arise.

Good subject for a post...and should be especially useful to 'newbies' with a 'panic-attack'...like the one I had when I first got my Lonestar!

Charles

 

[plan-x]

I set mine at 1:00-1:30. above that starts to mess with my chorus and delay that are in the loop.

 

[user 9654]

I've been running mine at 0. Will I have to make changes to my effects setting if I start messing with this knob? Will it produce more gain or just change the gain structure?

First post. I hope I do not disappoint.

 

[woody]

Let me get this right, You are saying that the fx pot on the back of the amp will add gain when the setting it turned up @ at higher setting? even if the FX Loop is not being used! If this is right this would be the first time I heard this, I'm not saying its not true but just never heard this before. I'm going to give this try tonight and everyone else let us know what you find out
Thanks !!

 

[FunkyMonkey]

I wouldn't want to lose the Output/Solo controls, but don't use the loop for any effects.. Having looked at the schematic and a block diagram for the LSC it looks as though the Send Pot acts as just an attenuator. So in theory (or my small mind at least) if I set the send level to full I will get the full gain structure the amp was designed to deliver - i.e. as if the loop was bypassed??

I can't try this now as it is 2030 in the evening in the UK, but sounds reasonable.

Duncs

 

[Charles Reeder]

Hey FunkyMonkey:

I can't read schematics (shame on me...seriously!)...and so I will take you at your word about the effects volume being at 'normal' setting when maxed.

Wow! That means the Lonestar amps are indeed set up with some serious 'gain'. I'm going the try one of my amps with the effects-level maxed...and attenuate somewhere else in the 'chain' and see what happens.

Regards: Charles

 

[Bill11]

Hi powermatt99,

To my ear, turning the control up increases the gain that I can dial in with either channel.

But try it out and let us know what you hear...

 

[Bill11]

Hey (again!) Bill11:

You are so right...it does need to be discussed!

I well remember a few days after I first got my Lonestar...I pulled the cover off...turned it on and began to play....and the amp had absolutely NO OOMPH! I was panic-stricken...what had happened to the full beautiful sound?

It took a while...but I finally realized that the effects level knob had been moved (how I don't know) and was set at about !0:00. I moved it back to about 1-O'Clock and my 'sound' was back. Huge Sigh Of Relief!

I use no effects in the loop...but my effects level knob does get a frequent workout! The changes in sound that a little adjustment can make are dramatic. Every time I tryout a different tube in V3 (especially); or change from a 12AT7 to a 12AX7 (or visa-versa) in the phase inverter (V5) position...an adjustment is called for.

Also, any change in power-tube-types warrants experimentation with the setting on the effects-level. Especially it seems; when going from 6L6 tube-types to 6V6 and/or YJs (or the reverse). Also; I sometimes use the EL34-bias-setting with certain 6V6s. Once again...time for adjustment.

Generally...just as you do...I seem to find the best results somewhere within the 1-O'Clock to 3-O'Clock setting range...but exceptions do arise.

Good subject for a post...and should be especially useful to 'newbies' with a 'panic-attack'...like the one I had when I first got my Lonestar!

Charles

Hi Charles,

Thanks. I had a similar disconcerting experience with my first LSC which lead to this post. It seems that this little "trick" is not well known, but it needs to be well known so folks can take full advantage of their Lonestar's capabilities.

I haven't been using effects either, but the effects send level is still important to adjust.

Your advice on trying different adjustments after pre amp or power amp tubes changes is great advice; I realized after I read your post that I have been doing this, too, but not consciously thinking about it.

And I am still enjoying your advice on 6V6's and Yellow Jackets; I bought a duet of each and enjoy the sheer sound versatility this gives the Lonestar...nice! Its like having several boutique amps all in one chassis. Very cool and not at all what I expected when I bought my Lonestar, but way better!

And I still enjoy a quad of EL84's from time to time too; not much bass, just straight ahead crunch.

And thanks Charles for all your contributions to this board; I know you have made my Mesa experience richer and much more fun!

 

[Bill11]

Let me get this right, You are saying that the fx pot on the back of the amp will add gain when the setting it turned up @ at higher setting? even if the FX Loop is not being used! If this is right this would be the first time I heard this, I'm not saying its not true but just never heard this before. I'm going to give this try tonight and everyone else let us know what you find out
Thanks !!

Hi Woody,

Yes, yes and YES...I know...I couldn't believe it either when I first heard this trick, at least not until I tried and then...wow! How cool and easy was that!

Did you get a chance to check this tip out and what do you think?

 

[woody]

So Has anyone noticed any change in the overall distortion??

 

[boogiemon]

I wouldn't want to lose the Output/Solo controls, but don't use the loop for any effects.. Having looked at the schematic and a block diagram for the LSC it looks as though the Send Pot acts as just an attenuator. So in theory (or my small mind at least) if I set the send level to full I will get the full gain structure the amp was designed to deliver - i.e. as if the loop was bypassed??

I can't try this now as it is 2030 in the evening in the UK, but sounds reasonable.

Duncs

the manual says that the loop circuitry includes two ( i think, but at *least* one) of the five preamp tubes, so the loop send control could be thought of as an extra gain stage & is the last one in the path to the power amp. Turned up, it'll give the power amp more to work with. i find that my LS definitely has more balls when the loop in & the send control is set to 1 o'clock or so.

Also, w/the loop in, turning up the master on ch2 & using the output control to set the volume really opens up the tone quite a bit.

 

[woody]

Does this apply for the Lonestar special??

 

[woody]

I tried this with my LSS and with the FX loop on, Ther is some some more gain/volume to be played with, It's a kewl feature? with the FX loop off I couldn't tell any different,
goodnight

 

[zappaslaughter]

I posted about this a few months back. The added gain can be a good thing, but it will also rob your chn 1 head room, especially at concert volumes. The louder you play, the more you will notice it. I found it by playing an out side venue, and I could not get the regular headroom I was acustomed too at lower volumes from chn 1. Half way throught the set I bypassed the loop, and BAM! bac to oodles of clean head room.

 

[Bill11]

I posted about this a few months back. The added gain can be a good thing, but it will also rob your chn 1 head room, especially at concert volumes. The louder you play, the more you will notice it. I found it by playing an out side venue, and I could not get the regular headroom I was acustomed too at lower volumes from chn 1. Half way throught the set I bypassed the loop, and BAM! bac to oodles of clean head room.

Hi zappaslaughter,

That is great to know...I haven't played a venue when I could crank it like that, but now I will be prepared!

 

[ja22y]

Let me get this right, You are saying that the fx pot on the back of the amp will add gain when the setting it turned up @ at higher setting? even if the FX Loop is not being used! If this is right this would be the first time I heard this, I'm not saying its not true but just never heard this before. I'm going to give this try tonight and everyone else let us know what you find out
Thanks !!

Hi Woody,

Yes, yes and YES...I know...I couldn't believe it either when I first heard this trick, at least not until I tried and then...wow! How cool and easy was that!

Did you get a chance to check this tip out and what do you think?

No, no and No....With the Fx loop off, the whole send/return circuit is by-passed. True-bypass by a wire. So that pot in the back has no effect at all. With the loop on, V3A drives the send and V3B drives the return. The send gain is control by that pot in the back. The return level (not gain) is control by the master pot.
Loop off/on meaning using the mini toggle switch.
The benefit of the extra gain circuit is documented in the manual.

 

[ama_kid]

zappaslaughter -

Thanks for bring to light a possible negative to this specific function of the LS series as it pertains to Channel 1.

To everyone, here's what I found in a live situation:

Effect Loop setting at 11:30-1 o'clock:

Nice meaty, yet airy and defined gain on Channel 2 (with either Drive engaged or not). Channel 1 headroom is perfectly glassy, clean and definitely acceptable. Clarity, bass response and effects response (in loop) is very good.

Effect Loop setting as 1-3 o'clock:

Slightly more gain on Channel 2, but depending on your right hand technique, pick angle and attack you start hearing the actual pick come through with the note you are striking. Channel 1 starts to get a little breakup (depending on where you have your Gain setting at) as you dig into it more. Effect response is still very good.

For my specific settings, the conclusion I have come to is that my sweet spot is around 1:30 as I like a little bit of natural breakup in my clean when I want it. Gain is perfect in this area too and hitting it with my BB Preamp or Keeley Modded BD-2 really kicks the gain into a sweet singing lead tone that for me with my delay and EQ in the loop really sustains and gives me some awesome overtones.

Anything over 3 o'clock on the effects loop level starts to effect my control over both my pick attack and my effects. My 2 cents.

Thanks to everyone who contributes to this forum, my Boogie experience has increased 10 fold since reading and posting! This coming from a player who was endorsed by Boogie for a while and couldn't pry these tips from Boogie themselves.