I need advice on an F50. Please help!

[Roscoe62]

Hi there!

I never thought I would ever have enough funds to afford something in the class of a Mesa Boogie amp, but I just got a small windfall and now I'm shopping.

However, I have a dilemma. I have 2 guitars - a fender strat, and an epiphone les paul. I've only got enough money for one amp, so I need to find one that is capable of making both sound great. I play a variety of stuff from light jazz, MOR rock, to some hard rock, so I guess the amp also has to be pretty versatile.

I visited my local dealer, told him my story and he pointed me at a Fender Deville - which seemed to have a pretty nice sound, but I'd really like to try a Mesa Boogie F50. The dealer also sells Mesa gear but is currently out of stock of the F50. I'm sure I can twist his arm to bring it in, but I'd like to be sure in my own mind that the F50 is going to be cover all the bases before asking. Both are priced about the same - the Deville is maybe $200 cheaper.

Dollar-wise the F50 is all I can stretch to - all other Mesa amps are out of my price range.

Have any of you had any experience with similar guitars through either the F50 (or the Deville). If so, I'd really like to know what you have to say.

One other question about the F50 - I've heard it's a LOT louder than you'd expect it to be - but am I able to get a really good distortion out of it without waking the neighbours?

Again, any of your experiences or advice is really appreciated.

Thanks for taking the time to read.

Roscoe

 

[dylan7620]

hy man, i take it you are looking at a combo? the f-50 is a great all around amp with all the basics you need to get you started. the fender vs mesa thing won't go very far as this is a mesa biased sight lol. but trying to be unbias as i can i'd pick the mesa still. the fender may excell a little at cleans and so on but the f-50 can more than hold its own. if you'll be using quite a bitdistortion the mesa will be what your after as well. i can't see that fender doing any modernd/hard rock without any pedals to help it out.

 

[picnic]

I demoed the F50 and an F30 both used at Guitar Center.. Both were nice clean, but not a nice as a Twin clean. I haven't played the amp you are looking at so I don't know its clean tone. The distortion on both F's was difficult to dial in, very harsh and I didn't like either of those models. I am not a metal/shredder though and those tones don't do it for me YMMV. I have both Fender and Mesa amps now. My Lonestar is the amp for me, the Fender is going. Buy the Boogie if it sounds good to your ears. You can always sell it and move on if your needs/tastes change.

 

[Dann'sTheMan]

Hi Roscoe,

I play a similar range of musical styles, and imho the F-50 covers all of those bases with sheer class. I was fortunate to be able to choose from pretty much any Mesa when buying my Boogie, and I'm one of the significant group of people that prefers the tones in the F-series. Just one of the reasons, was that the F-series was equally happy with the low output pickups in my Charvel Strat, as it was with the twin humbuckers in my PRS Custom 22 (yesterday, I was rehearsing for a big gig next weekend, and I tried an American Deluxe Strat through my rig - GLORIOUS!). Here's a diagram of how my rig hangs together:

I don't want to lay it on too thick, but imho the F-series is in another class tonally to the Hot Rod Fenders, both on the clean and the dirty tones. I did A/B with the Fender, but it's also worth pointing out that the F-50 costs close to $2000 here in Europe, and so I was tonally auditioning the Boogie against many highly respected and pricey European amps. I honestly preferred the F-50, and had to follow my ears and bring it home.

The biggest caveat, is one that you have already touched upon. The F-series is bone-crunchingly loud - including the humble little F-30. This was quite unnerving when I first brought it home, but I rapidly stumbled upon a solution, where I could reduce the levels in the loop with my multi-FX unit, and then get the amp's Master Volume above 9 o'clock - where the amp really starts to open up (worth remembering when trying it out). This "volume-pedal-in-the-loop" trick has been well documented over at HCAF's F-series Lounge and many owners have found this an elegant and inexpensive means of taming the F-series into a bedroom amp. I certainly have, and I've used this approach for many volume sensitive TV studio sessions. Furthermore, there's always the speaker level attenuator approach (Hotplate, Weber mass etc.) to consider too.

I've been ravin' about my F-50 combo for many years, and it's one of the most tonally versatile amps around imo. I'm a huge fan of session maestro, Dann Huff, and I bought this amp because it delivered a wealth of Dann-inspired tones, from clean to scream. I have a range of video and audio clips in my Signing In post over in the Rigs & Tones section, that give an idea of just some of the tones I've been able to capture. I highly recommend auditioning the F-series if you can.

Big smiles,

Andy.

P.S. FWIW, the F-50 is one of only a handful of amps ever to win the highest "Gold" accolade from UK Guitarist magazine. Check out the review here.

P.P.S. If you do get an opportunity to audition the F-series, I recommend taking along hal9000's excellent audtion settings, as some of the settings can be rather unconventional to the new Boogie user.

 

[strumminsix]

Which Deville did you demo? My favorite Deville is the 4x10 configuration which is just delicious. I will own one someday. But the Lonestar is much better for versatility and power.

I'd imagine your questions need to be:
1 - how do I want to produce my sound (the F50 being a 1x12 and the Devilles w/mult configurations
2 - what tone do I want to focus on clean or driven (the F50 have a nicer drive while I don't think I'd ever use anything but the clean of a Fender)

Ya, sorry gang, I dig Fender but no Fender can touch my Lonestar tones and verstility (but I do sometimes think that it is missing Tremolo ).

 

[Roscoe62]

Thanks for all the responses guys!

Dylan 7620,

Yeah, I knew it would be a Mesa-biased site, but I thought it would be interesting to hear the thoughts of someone who had heard both. Also, maybe in my heart of hearts I'm looking for a little justification for splashing out on the F-50! :wink:

Picnic,

Yes, I've seen a few posts mentioning they found it difficult to dial in a good distortion, and yet I've seen posts from others saying they found something that sounded great to them almost straight away. I guess we all have different ears, so I'm going to have to try it out for myself.

Dann's The Man,

Buddy, I have seen your posts all over the place! It's great to hear from someone who's REALLY experiencing joy from their F-50. I have read up a few posts about attenuators like the Weber MiniMass etc. Although I've also seen some posts saying this doesn't nearly go far enough to tame the F30/F50 into a bedroom amp. However, your volume pedal in the loop trick sounds like it might be the right solution. This amp will probably spend most of it's time in my bedroom, or at church so any way of taming it when it's in those situations has got to be a good thing!

The Fender 212 is retailing here for NZ$2300, while the Mesa F50 is going for NZ$2500.

BTW, I tried to download a few of your video and audio clips yesterday but I got a message saying they were no longer there(?). I'll check again today.

Finally, I've seen the name Dann Huff but I'm not really familiar with his work. If you were going to point me to an album that showcases what he can do, what would you recommend?

Strumminsix,

The Fender I was directed to was the DeVille 212. My dealer also advertises a 410 on his website (for $100 more) but I didn't see it in the store. I really do like the sound of a strat going through an amp that gives it some heat, and I suspect that my strat may sound better through a Fender amp, BUT as long as the strat still sounds like a strat through the Mesa then I think I might be able to get more versatility out of the F50. I hear what you're saying about the Lonestar - you're definitely not the first I've heard to say that, but I'm afraid my budget just won't stretch to a Lonestar. As a comparison the F50 retails here for NZ$2500, while the Lonestar for $3900.

 

[strumminsix]

Glad to help. Again, don't discount cabs and how your sound will be projected.

A 1x12 will need to get relatively louder to compete with a 4x10 in an unmic'd setting.

 

[srf399]

I sold a 1965 Deluxe reverb about 6 months ago.... Got a MKIV cause I love the singing lead channel but it isn't the 3 dimentional sweet fender clean sound I will admit. It does depend on priorities and what sounds you want. I felt bad losing that clean sound.... it's magical in old fenders.... and I've never heard a newer fender that comes close... But when I tried a LSC I new I could always get that sound back without paying Vintage prices. It's just like a vintage fender. I would love to A/A them...LSC for cleans and MKIV for lead and crunch

 

[Dann'sTheMan]

Yep, I've been ravin' about the Mesa F-50 for some time. :lol: Can you tell it's my favourite Boogie?

There is a wealth of experience over at the F-series Lounge with tips from custom switching integration to loop attenuator projects; tubes, mike placement and speaker experiences to customising grill cloth and control knobs! A volume pedal in the loop will certainly turn the F-50 into a church friendly amp - at least it does mine.

I also come from the Fender school of tone, and I've been playing Fender amps since I started playing the electric. I've been regularly supplied Fender amps on numerous house gigs, and prior to the F-series, whenever I've toured, I would ask for a Fender amp (I remember getting to know the Hot Rod series during a tour in Florida about a decade ago). For the kinds of gig I do, great clean sounds are a necessity for me. Thankfully, these days, I would have no hesitation putting my F-50 rig (and more recently, the Lonestar Classic) toe to toe with any Fender. Furthermore, the F-50 inspires with the dirty and lead tones too. It's my "Dann-Huff-In-A-Box" amp.

Regarding Dann Huff, you most likely already have some of his work in your music collection - he's been at the top of the session guitarist heap for the last two decades, in both LA and Nashville, as well as fronting the highly respected Van Halen-esque hard rock group "Giant". He plays all over a lot of the CCM music that comes out of Nashville, and is now one of the most respected producers in Music City. Check out www.allmusic.com and do a search for Dann Huff. In the "Credits" section (several pages worth!), there's a pretty exhaustive list - and I'll be surprised if you don't have some of it in your CD collection. He's appeared on everyone from Madonna to Amy Grant, from Whitesnake to Shania Twain. Revisit your CD collection and see if you don't agree that Dann IS the man.

Finally, apologies about the problems with my audio clips. I have them hosted at digitalsoundplanet, but there seems to be a problem with their server (temporary I hope so please check back from time to time). In the meantime, do check out the video clips - these should be working fine. However, if you only get audio, you'll need to download the CODEC from DIVX to watch properly.

Best wishes with your search, and if you haven't already guessed, my recommendation would be to go for the F-50. :lol:

Big smiles,

Andy.

 

[Surfcaster]

I'll just chime in here a bit, too. While the Fender DeVille no question has a great clean channel, I find the drive channel seriously lacking....very buzzy and unpleasant. And of course Fender's reverb is legendary. But if you use overdrive/distortion regularly, I'd also recommend the F50 (I happen to own one of these, too). The clean is very good and the drive is awesome. The reverb is the biggest disappoinment for me on the F50, but it's very useable...and in my case, I plan on getting a reverb pedal anyway.

No doubt in my mind that the F50 is best rock amp when comparing it to the DeVille. I might choose the DeVille if I was a surf player, country player or a clean-low gain blues player, but otherwise, my money is on the F50.

And I'll throw in a +1 for Dann Huff...amazing player and he is on an amazing number of studio albums. For a while in the 90's I don't think you could buy a CCM album that didn't have Dann's name on it (I think he had that written into his contract! ) He was the lead player for WhiteHeart in the early years...that's where I first became familiar with him. Another outstanding guitarist came out of that group as well...Gordon Kennedy. He's also a studio musician these days, but has a much lower profile than Dann.

 

[hazer]

You HAVE to be kidding me! F-50 versus a Hot Rod Deville? No contest. The F-50 is the amp to choose. The Fender is horrible, they have tube rattle, they feed back real easy, at super low volumes, and they're made in Mexico. The Fender has a little nicer reverb, but the F-50 has a great clean channel, amazing drive tones, and a decent reverb. Fender has really gone downhill with their Mexican guitars, and from what amps I've played, they too are mediocre.

 

[strumminsix]

You HAVE to be kidding me! F-50 versus a Hot Rod Deville? No contest. The F-50 is the amp to choose.

It's all about different needs. You put up a guy like me who plays mostly clean, likes a full midrange, likes a Zen drive for a driven sound and needs a good distribution of my sound and keep overall volume lower and give me a choice between between a 410 HRD and a 1x12 F50 and you'll see me carrying out a HRD without thinking twice.

 

[Brewski]

Both amps have their strengths. I think that if you had to chose between the two with no effects, the scale tips toward the F-50, for versatility. It just depends on what sounds good to you and what kind of music you're going to be doing.

 

[Roscoe62]

Thanks for all your answers, guys! I have to say I'm impressed at the honesty expressed here! At the end of the day there are no wrong answers because it's a purely subjective question.

However, what I'm going to do is see if I can twist the dealer into letting me take either of these amps home for a night or two to really try them out. I'm hoping a large up-front deposit might help! I hate having to play in the shop!

I've a feeling that my preference is going to be towards the D50, but I think it's just going to depend on how well it's clean channel handles my strat. I really don't think there'll be much of a contest in the gain channel, and I suspect my Les Paul is gonna sound great!

The only other thing I was concerned about was taming the volume and Andy, I did have a quick look through the F Series Lounge to find info on the volume pedal. I think for me I'd prefer to just set up a small box with a normal pot on it as my foot control isn't great! I saw that Hal9000 provided a circuit diagram there on page 5 for one and it looks pretty simple. However, he didn't state whether he was using a linear or log pot. You don't happen to know do you? Or maybe the info is listed further on. I thought it might be a good idea to rig one up before auditioning the amp.

There's some great info in the Lounge - it's just a shame it's not it's own forum as searching for something specific in a single 64+ page post is almost impossible!

 

[Dann'sTheMan]

The only other thing I was concerned about was taming the volume and Andy, I did have a quick look through the F Series Lounge to find info on the volume pedal. I think for me I'd prefer to just set up a small box with a normal pot on it as my foot control isn't great! I saw that Hal9000 provided a circuit diagram there on page 5 for one and it looks pretty simple. However, he didn't state whether he was using a linear or log pot. You don't happen to know do you? Or maybe the info is listed further on. I thought it might be a good idea to rig one up before auditioning the amp.

There's some great info in the Lounge - it's just a shame it's not it's own forum as searching for something specific in a single 64+ page post is almost impossible!

It's certainly a lot of material to get through. As I'm registered over at HCAF, I have my page view set at 100 posts per page, but the thread is still 15 pages long! A read to be taken on in bitesize chunks methinks. 8)

Regarding the attenuator box project, we helped a new owner through all of the steps later in the thread - check out this post and the posts that follow. The Xicon pot that hal9000 suggests has a linear taper. Let me know if there's anything more I can do to help.

Best wishes with the auditions, and I hope you find an amp that rocks your world,

Big smiles,

Andy.

 

[Roscoe62]

Latest story on this is that my dealer can only source ONE F-50 in the whole country and it's BROKEN! Apparently it's blowing fuses.

Anyway, I'm desparate so I'm going to give it a go. My dealer is going to bring it into the shop and get the service techs to have a look at it. If I decide to buy it he'll make sure it's given a full service before I take it home.

It's not ideal but it's the best I can do. Because it's close to the end of the financial year stock is very low, and if I waited for the next shipment that may be up to 3-4 months away and they couldn't guarantee the price they're offering now.

Hopefully it's something simple as I REALLY don't want to be stuck with a very expensive lemon! :?

EDIT: Hmmm...nothing boosts the desire for something like suddenly finding out you can't have it eh? :wink: