How can I make a LSC Channel 2 Cut through the mix more?

[SyKrash]

Hey guys. Recently aquired a Mesa Boogie LSC V.1 and it's been a great amp. Lush gorgeous cleans, that really live up to the hype. Alot of headroom, flexibility etc.

I actually find that channel 2 (with drive) engaged is a very great sounding channel. A fat warm tone reminiscient of the Mark I, but with alot more options and the channel switching ability.

I've gigged with it 3 times already and it has been a great amp live (other than the weight, ouch) but I find that RHYTHM guitar parts (chords, power chords etc.) on channel two just don't cut through enough. I've tried cranking the mids, and/or the treble to get it cut through a mix, but I still feel like it just gets buried.

I defnitely keep the bass at 1, or near off, there's a TON of it, but between the drive, gain, presence, mids and treble, I just can't seem to dial in a sound that has a decent amount of gain AND that will also cut through.

I work mainly as a sideman in pop acts, so the amount of gain I usually go with is somewhere in the Foo Fighters, Kelly Clarkson, Carrie Underwood range. There's enough gain to rock with and have some balls, but don't need chunky chugga chugga Dual Rectifier rhythms.

Any tips to taming this beast? I recent;y tried an eq pedal in the loop with poor results.

 

[MesaMonster]

Have you tried some kind of Overdrive pedal in the front. I use one on my Road King and it tightens that baby right up. It makes a huge difference and makes my amp stand out. I use a FullTone FullDrive 2 MOSFET which I am told is a TubeScreamer with some extra stuff. I had a Boss OD-2 at one time that brought out more highs but it just died on me recently. Try a clean boost in front too. You can get up to 10db gain.

 

[plan-x]

Experiment with the drive engaged, running it higher than the gain, keeping the gain down which introduces to much bottom end and mud. The mids also add to much bottom, kill em. The Treble acts more like the mids and I run mine above 12:00. Also try the thick switch for kicks.

 

[SyKrash]

I'll definitely try both suggestions.

With the voicing toggle it apparently lowers the treble frequency that the treble knob controls. So in theory, if I have it in the "Thick" mode, cranking the treble knob is actually boosting more of the 'midrange'/'upper-mids' ?

I have an ac, a bb and a rc booster all from xotic. I ran the BB into it. It definitly increases the gain, but there's not much midrange in this pedal to begin with, it just increased the overall saturation/gain. Most xotic pedals don't really have as much of a pronounced mid-hump as say a Tube Screamer or Full Drive.

Would an EQ pedal through the front help out?

 

[plan-x]

Yeah, an EQ up front might pull it off. The Reeder mods help also. Thick is as far as I go. Thicker pulls up some low/mids a tad.

 

[Jimi Henrix]

Did you use Humbuckers or single coils ? it is very difficult to get a good sound doing chord or powerchords with Humbuckers, this amp seems to prefer single coils, i´m not sure but a good rack EQ like the BUZZAUDIO MP1 probably can solve the problem either it is expensive and not a comfortable solution to play live, try also Treble at 1/2 o´clock or 3, Bass off and middles off presence at 9 or ten o´clock
Good Luck

 

[SyKrash]

I use a Les Paul Traditional, with '57 pickups

 

[Jimi Henrix]

I use a Les Paul Traditional, with '57 pickups

I have doing experiment on my Les Paul Standard 60´s recording and with a software EQ, i´m not engineer but for me it needs a big cut around 300 HZ, i don´t understand why this amp is so dark

 

[fishyfishfish]

This amp doesn't "Cut" like most amps. It sits in the mix OK, but as far as a band setting with multiple guitars/keys you either love the sound or it is not going to do it for you. This is the reason I sold the amp and moved on.
If you can, try out a 'Dyne or even a Mark IV.

 

[jjboogie]

Turn up the volume!

I have never had issues with a Lonestar cutting through a mix and neither should you!

 

[SyKrash]

would you mind sharing your settings?

 

[lostcause]

Im starting to wonder if maybe the LS is an amp that is affected buy playing styles more than any other amp.
Ive never had a problem cutting through the mix.
Amp tilted back and miked. Its thick and throaty on ch2 but It still doesnt seem to get lost for me.
Stock tubes, no mods. Maybe I sound like crap and am blissfully unaware.....nnnnaaahh :lol:

 

[SyKrash]

Here's a live clip of the LSC in use. I'm on the far left with the les paul

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EEMjmRVDOo

You'll notice that when I'm i the clean channel, not a problem. There's three guitar players in this clip, I'm playing the 'low' parts in this song, and everytime I switch to the dirty channel I basically disappear. The clip was recorded with a flip cam. My master on channel 2 was actually HIGHER than the master on channel 1. Which is pretty ridiculous for this amp. No effects engaged, loop on with send at around 1:00.

I usually have my tone knob and volume up on the bridge pickup eclusively.

The output was around 10 or 11 if i remember. Everything was mic'd

The other guitarists are using a Vox ac15 (15 watts) and a rivera chubster (40 watts).

 

[djw]

Turn up the volume!

I have never had issues with a Lonestar cutting through a mix and neither should you!

Word.

 

[Leroy the Massochist]

SyKrash

Congrats on the band , it sounds fantastic.

I hear what you are saying about disappearing. I thought the clean could also do with a bit more higher mids so perhaps your ear generally is tending towards a sound with lots of lows. What sounds good when you play by yourself (eg trying to fill out the sound with lows) does not necessarily work in a band. Some of the best recordings if you listen to the guitars really closely the guitar sound on its own is not that pleasent eg lots of high mids, but in the context of the band with the bass filling the bottom end it works wonderfully.

With my LSS if I can't get my master and volume above 12 o'clock I turn down the wattage, this increases the top end and cut. Preferable master and volume would be around 2 o'clockish. As you turn down the wattage on Channel 2 you need to engage the thick button and lower the gain (I do not use 30watt any more as it is too loud to get into the sweet spot zone so I expect a LSC would be even harder to manage at 100watt). If you go down to 5 watts you need to go to thicker. The louder you go the more top end cut (and ore bass which might suit your band style) but you then need to fill up some lower mids.

Yeah you could have been a tad louder but you were definitely there filling out the sound. The drums and vocals were prominent so the punters would have loved it I am sure.

Cheers

 

[Jimi Henrix]

I have see the clip, it is difficult to give an opinion or an advise here, beacause your guitar depends also of the setting of the other guitars, it seems to me what we ear in the clip is the final mix done by your technician, not sure if it can be improuved easylly i don´t know how much big is the room where you are playing and the acoustic quality of the room, at first glance there is too much bass in the overall mix nothing is clear, my suggestion here is all the guitar must to have a High pass filter cut on about 100 HZ and after doing the cut work each guitar individually; 1 you can boost a bit 1.5 KZ, 2 boosted again but at 3.5KZ to diferencie from 1, and in your guitar do a roll off near 300 HZ with no boost in mids or boos at 1.5 KZ your guitar and don´t boost guitar 1, this should be done in the mixing console in this way you should get the three guitars separated and clariyfied, if the room is too small, the drums must to be muted with savannahs and blankets the bass must be reduced in Bass and drums too with a bell cut between 70/ 50 HZ in the bassdrum and in the Bass Guitar, some reverb or delays on a clean sounding guitar separate again more but not too much reverb, in this way the overall midlles of the mix are pushed up and the bass are more consistant also the trebles are more clear the singer also filter hightpass cut at 70 hz, vary the Q in your boost or cuts to obtain the finest results possibles that must work, it work in Sequencer and it works too in Live situations, By the way good song and playing
I was forgeting to give you the oder of this work must to be done begin with the bass and bassdrum once they are clearlly separated go for lead vocals and finnally the guitars

 

[plan-x]

Bet those other guys aren't complaining about your mix. 3 guitars can be difficult to mix, and everyone wants to be heard. The LS is a fat blues/vintage toned amp in the 6l6 camp. And sound great in a single guitar situation. The key to cutting a mix is the mids. The LS mids are not centered around those frequencies. The LS also does pedals well. Get a TS type pedal and those other guys will start complaining.

 

[91ce24]

I agree with keeping the gain lower than the drive...that might help it come up in the mix a bit. If you need more drive/sustain, use your BB or some other preamp pedal in front of the amp. Not wanting to overlook the obvious, make sure your strings are relatively fresh...its amazing how much an old set of strings will deaden/soften your attack and overall sound. I like dead strings personally but you're competing with other instruments in the same frequency spectrum.

Make sure the FOH isn't eq-ing you out of the mix...you're being mic'd? If your amp volume is too high (common in small club settings) ,the sound guy may not be putting you through the mains at all and that'll affect your presence in the overall mix if your band mates are getting represented in the mains where you'll get a better spread in the room. Just my .2

 

[420danno]

Im starting to wonder if maybe the LS is an amp that is affected buy playing styles more than any other amp.
Ive never had a problem cutting through the mix.
Amp tilted back and miked. Its thick and throaty on ch2 but It still doesnt seem to get lost for me.
Stock tubes, no mods. Maybe I sound like crap and am blissfully unaware.....nnnnaaahh :lol:

I'm with you, I don't have any problem cutting. If your looking to sound thin and mid-rangy you'll definitely cut through fine with a Fender hot rod. My other guitar player use one he cuts through great, but in my recordings, his tone is far less complex. If you can't get a good tone with a totally stock LSC 212 like mine then you don't know what you're doing. I find that I love the amp with low power settings (tweed, 50 watt, 4 ohm jack) with the drive out and the gain up @ 3 to full, keep the bass down, mid below 12, treb and pres pretty hot, and you've got a great crunchy guitar sound. The drive will give a little more cream but I think it takes away some of the dynamic feel. If you need more sustain, work on your left hand technique, or get heavier strings.


'76 Les Paul Deluxe
'79 Frankin-strat with Bill Lawrence Blades
'92 PRS Ce-24
V1 LSC 212 (upgrade in my opinion from my '84 MkII C+)

 

[toneguy86]

As others have said, this is a dark amp, probably set up somewhat to enhance single coils. Normal kinds of amp settings don't seem to work well. I just had to get used to what I had and am really digging it now. I also am a Les Paul/humbucker or P90 guy. I did experience a bit of what you mentioned very early on (not cutting through, getting lost in the mix especially on channel two). Right now:

I set my drive MUCH higher then the gain (3:00 or higher vs. 9:00 on gain)

Turn the mids down to between 9 and 10:00 and the bass to about 10:00

I use a standback amp stand to tilt it back and run the master about half way or a bit more on the 50 watt setting

Oh...and the treble needs to be up...2:00 at least...it cuts

Mark