I have tried different ax7 tubes different settings etc. I am not trying to be contra to mesa fans but my 2 Fender prosonics blow it away sound wise right now. I want the M5 to work out i spent a fortune. I use a vetical Mesa 2x12 an American Standard Strat and a les paul. I am very unhappy with it at performance volume. When I am home in the apt it is at a low volume and it sounds great When I gig I can't wait for the gig to end or go get the prosonic from the car. Are there mods I can get to make the treble response normal or do I have pump the treb down? when I do that I lose crunch. My strat sounds like an accoustic at times.
Help!! I AM HAVING AN ISSUE WITH TOO MUCH ICE PICK TREBLE
- Thread starter MD57MD
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TimeSignature
Well-known member
1 - try putting the cab on its side
2 - look into buying beam blockers and research Mitchell donuts to understand what is happening!
3 - lower the treble
4 - if you have v30's they can sometimes have some harsh high's, look into c90's or maybe a marshall cab.
5 - angle the cab away from you!
2 - look into buying beam blockers and research Mitchell donuts to understand what is happening!
3 - lower the treble
4 - if you have v30's they can sometimes have some harsh high's, look into c90's or maybe a marshall cab.
5 - angle the cab away from you!
smd24fan
Well-known member
Can you give us your settings? Then we may be able to help you out. For the record, my Strat sounds very different in comparison to my JP6. What I chose to do is use Ch.2/Mk.1 primarily for my Strat as it fattens up the single coils without losing the classic Strat sound. Again, give us ALL your settings, there are allot of tone freaks on here that will help you through this. There is NO viable reason for you to be this unhappy with your Mark V IMHO. Don't take this the wrong way as I don't know your experience with Boogies, but Mark Series amps are different animals and are infinitely adjustable.
MD57MD said:
I have a fender american deluxe, gibson les paul, vert mesa 2x12, and a mark V. Mine just sounds better when I turn it up. It does require different settings than when playing at bedroom volume, treble and or presence need be reduced. I'm still using all stock tubes from Mesa.
Remember there are more than a few ways to destroy the tone of any mark amp. Start with the eq off, and work on getting a usable tone. Then add the eq and be careful not to go overboard. Sometimes less is more in a band situation.
Thanks I use many settings and I will get my complete settings to you but for starters my treble on ch 1 and 3 are at 9 oclock and my presence 10:30. My EQ the 2 bands to the right are lower than the midle and midle slightly lower than the bass like steps down to the right. My best sound is channel 2. pretty much normal sounding and settings at or around 12 noon. I have toyed with this. i rented a rehearsal space to play with it at band volume to get my sound.. I just want the harshness to normalize. Is it possible that the new cab needs the spkrs broken in?
Also changing the power tubes to winged C or Groove tube?
Also changing the power tubes to winged C or Groove tube?
smd24fan
Well-known member
Seems like with your treble settings/EQ settings that low, you should be fine. Traditionally, with high gain you should keep the treble below 2 o'clock and you are lower than that by far. I'm a little puzzled myself, maybe someone a little more knowledgeable will chime in. I put the SED tubes in my M5, and it sounds incredible, but was not a huge difference on the treble side. Your speakers could use a break-in for sure, but I'm skeptical as to whether new V30's could alone cause your issue. Mine sound insane, but are moderately broken in.
scott from _actual time_
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i had this problem with my Mark V for the longest time, mostly on Channel 3. i still haven't fully conquered it, but i've gotten it much better. i agree with a lot of the advice you've gotten so far:
-get rid of the V30s, especially if they are not in an oversized cab. the V30s have a large midrange peak and way more high-end sizzle than darker speakers like Classic Lead 80s or the Mesa Black Shadow (which is a modified CL80). swapping my V30 for a CL80 clone made a huge difference in lowering the brightness.
-turn the Presence as far down as you can stand it. even 10:30 was too high for me. i run my Presence from 8 o'clock to all the way off, and i brighten the sound if needed by using the highest slider on the EQ.
-use the EQ sliders and not the presets--the presets have more treble. run the highest slider below the middle line.
-run the Treble low (like you're already doing) and the Gain higher. that has helped me a lot.
most of all, keep tweaking. i spent three months unsuccessfully tweaking mine until i finally found the sweet spot to dial out the ice-pick treble a lot. good luck.
-get rid of the V30s, especially if they are not in an oversized cab. the V30s have a large midrange peak and way more high-end sizzle than darker speakers like Classic Lead 80s or the Mesa Black Shadow (which is a modified CL80). swapping my V30 for a CL80 clone made a huge difference in lowering the brightness.
-turn the Presence as far down as you can stand it. even 10:30 was too high for me. i run my Presence from 8 o'clock to all the way off, and i brighten the sound if needed by using the highest slider on the EQ.
-use the EQ sliders and not the presets--the presets have more treble. run the highest slider below the middle line.
-run the Treble low (like you're already doing) and the Gain higher. that has helped me a lot.
most of all, keep tweaking. i spent three months unsuccessfully tweaking mine until i finally found the sweet spot to dial out the ice-pick treble a lot. good luck.
TimeSignature
Well-known member
Your amp settings look good.
I think this issue has everything to do with your speaker cab. The type of speaker, the fact that they are not both low to the ground and your ear positioning relative to the angle of the speaker are what is producing the harshness that you hear.
Read this thread if you'd like to know more about speaker directivity. Its a long one!
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=470956
Now, I personally have never had luck with Mitchell donuts but most of the folks on the thread above have so you may want to look into it. At the very least you will begin to understand the "problem" in detail.
For the record, out of all the amps I have owned/ own, my DC 10 and Fender Supersonic have the absolute worst ice pick sound ever.... I HAVE to play them angled AWAY from me. The Mark ranks up there. Im actually considering beam blockers.
I think this issue has everything to do with your speaker cab. The type of speaker, the fact that they are not both low to the ground and your ear positioning relative to the angle of the speaker are what is producing the harshness that you hear.
Read this thread if you'd like to know more about speaker directivity. Its a long one!
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=470956
Now, I personally have never had luck with Mitchell donuts but most of the folks on the thread above have so you may want to look into it. At the very least you will begin to understand the "problem" in detail.
For the record, out of all the amps I have owned/ own, my DC 10 and Fender Supersonic have the absolute worst ice pick sound ever.... I HAVE to play them angled AWAY from me. The Mark ranks up there. Im actually considering beam blockers.
niilz
Well-known member
Try this for your clean channel:
Mode: Fat
"Normal" (NOT Bold)
Variac Power
90 watts
Gain: 8:30h - 9:30H
Channel: Master Full
Presence: 7:00h - 9:00h
Treble: 7:00h (no Treble!!!)
Mid: 5:00h (full)
Bass: 5:00h (full)
FX Loop Level: 9:00h
EQ Preset off or 7:00h - 9:00h
Volume as needed...
...and replace the poweramp tubes with el 34 (less ice picky!!! ;-)
Mode: Fat
"Normal" (NOT Bold)
Variac Power
90 watts
Gain: 8:30h - 9:30H
Channel: Master Full
Presence: 7:00h - 9:00h
Treble: 7:00h (no Treble!!!)
Mid: 5:00h (full)
Bass: 5:00h (full)
FX Loop Level: 9:00h
EQ Preset off or 7:00h - 9:00h
Volume as needed...
...and replace the poweramp tubes with el 34 (less ice picky!!! ;-)
What i have learned to do from past experiences is, if i have a problem that doesnt seem to go away frequency wise, i change the position of the cab or PLAY IN A DIFFERENT room. WOW how much trouble a certain room can be with reflections and what not.. Let us know what the problem turns out to be, and trust me there is a catch somwhere its not from the amp, youll find it..
As to power tubes options or even types of speakers, these are tools to get into to find the sound you are looking for but they are not IMO the solution to what seems to be like a killing frequency that doesnt go away. You should be able to tame them with any setup even if its not the sound you are specefically looking for.
Of course that's just my opinion, but whatever it turns out to be i hope you will solve. goodluck friend!
As to power tubes options or even types of speakers, these are tools to get into to find the sound you are looking for but they are not IMO the solution to what seems to be like a killing frequency that doesnt go away. You should be able to tame them with any setup even if its not the sound you are specefically looking for.
Of course that's just my opinion, but whatever it turns out to be i hope you will solve. goodluck friend!
ok i should have read your posts better. Sorry bro. You say that you other amps kill it so you must be playing them in the same room then you tried at the rehearsal space as well. mm...
Stupid question but since you say that mainly the problem is with the clean channel, do you have the harshness when you play softly on the guitar? I noticed that the mesa cleans tend to have such a dynamic range that when you play hard it gets much louder. if it gets very loud are ers tend to perceive the highs a lot more. So let me know if you have the same problem when you play softly. That may be a stupid thing im saying but its worth trying.. (in that case you could put a transparent compressor?)
Stupid question but since you say that mainly the problem is with the clean channel, do you have the harshness when you play softly on the guitar? I noticed that the mesa cleans tend to have such a dynamic range that when you play hard it gets much louder. if it gets very loud are ers tend to perceive the highs a lot more. So let me know if you have the same problem when you play softly. That may be a stupid thing im saying but its worth trying.. (in that case you could put a transparent compressor?)
I ordered 12 pieces of the 1x12 foam from McMaster-Carr and did Mitchell donuts in a few of my cabs.
Do this my son and you will have peace. The audience will thank you too.
part number: 85735K72 for 3/4"
part number: 85735K71 for 1/2"
[email protected] is the email addy listed on my invoice. I ordered from their website and I had them two days later.
Do this my son and you will have peace. The audience will thank you too.
part number: 85735K72 for 3/4"
part number: 85735K71 for 1/2"
[email protected] is the email addy listed on my invoice. I ordered from their website and I had them two days later.
Last question did you try the cleans without graphic eq? i get great cleans without them usually (use the graphic eqs for gain more)
This is NOT a solution to your problem, but just to keep you going at rehearsal put an external eq in the loop (since i suppose youre having the same problem with both guitars then better than place in front of the amp) to tame the highs until we have this thing figured out if you re not able to get the desired solution with the amp's graphic eq.
Unfortunately since i am in a hurry today i mainly read your first post so i might be saying stupid things so tomorrow i will ge back to you and read it well
This is NOT a solution to your problem, but just to keep you going at rehearsal put an external eq in the loop (since i suppose youre having the same problem with both guitars then better than place in front of the amp) to tame the highs until we have this thing figured out if you re not able to get the desired solution with the amp's graphic eq.
Unfortunately since i am in a hurry today i mainly read your first post so i might be saying stupid things so tomorrow i will ge back to you and read it well
to all thank you. I have tried the fender at the reheasal space with the Mesa. I have also used both on the gigs..Nobody especially me wants to spend 2600 bucks for a head and cab and have it unusable. I will try some of the suggestions here. I have been playing a long time and i hav used many still own amps. In other word I know what I am looking for and i can't believe I have to go these measures to get a good sound. especially with the $ invested so far. Thanks for the Advice everyone.
One more question. how about the "govonor" by eminece to solve this problem? Any experience with them?
One more question. how about the "govonor" by eminece to solve this problem? Any experience with them?
phyrexia
Well-known member
preamp tubes. v1, 2, 3.
my amp sounds a lot different than the amps we have at work.
my amp sounds a lot different than the amps we have at work.
MusicManJP6
Well-known member
phyrexia said:
What preamp tubes you using? I just bought a bunch of TungSol ReIssues.... should be here next week.
Mauler
Active member
As I said on the JP forum, my cables have died, and my spare has alot of intermittent noise going on. However a question I will ask as my Mk 1 mode is sounding overly bassy again, I was playing in a dark room (no lighting other than the amp and pedalboard) tonight and noticed that the 2nd 6L6 from the left glows alot duller than the other 3. Would this be cause for concern, or could it be the reason my channel 2 sounds like ***?
