The Heartbreaker started sounding good the day I tossed the 6L6's and moved into EL34's. To get authentic brit tone, I got a greenback voiced speaker, and the Heartbreaker Lust channel cranked out rock and hard rock tones with a great deal of authority.
However - curious that the Bogner Goldfinger uses 6v6's to get pretty authentic crossover tones, I wanted to try 6v6's in the Heartbreaker which should, by its design, be THE premier crossover amp.
I got a two sets of matched pairs....eg.....a pair of JJ's and a pair of Tungsol RI's, and they are matched as a quad. Thanks to thetubestore for undertaking such an unusual request.
Using the Mesa back panel instructions, I put the bias on the 6L6/6v6 setting and loaded the new tubes. They farted out with no tone. So I got in touch with thetubestore guys who looked into the Heartbreaker design data and told me that at the tweed voltages, 6v6's don't bias at all like 6L6's (like the Mesa bias switch would appear to instruct)....in fact, they bias very close to what Mesa has their EL34 switch biased at tweed voltages.
So I switched the bias over to EL34 with the 6v6's and the tubes came to life. I will say that the 6v6 quad, although they rate right dab in the center of the idle current ratings, remain just a tad cold using the EL34 bias, and just as advice to other's that may be convinced to give this a try, get tube selections that will bias a little hotter with the EL34 bias switch in tweed. The bias voltages are found in a chart on one of the latter pages of the Heartbreaker schematic which can be found in a websearch.
Now, I didn't know if I'd like the JJ's or the Tungsols, as these are opposite flavors of 6v6's from what I gathered from some samplings of written opinion on different gear forums.....which is why I ordered a pair of each, and again, the two pairs were also matched.
In researching more details like tube output impedances and the like, I am taken to understand that when running one pair of 6v6's I would ideally have to run a 16 ohm speaker in the 4 ohm jack for a close to output tube impedance match with the HB transformer. Unfortunately, I only own an 1x12 8 ohm speaker, and I found that running a single pair using my impedances didn't quite cut it, probably because the bias remains a hair cold and the speaker/impedances mismatch probably just set it in the wrong direction....However, running the pairs as a quad gives me pretty good tone, and certainly better than either pair individually.
For comparison, I run my EL34's on edge of breakup. They have a sweet compression and crunch to them that I love and that makes me want to play hard rock all the time - but I don't push them into mush zone like vintage Marshall guys love - I leave them on the edge of breakup....Masters at noon or slightly better. If I need more drive...pedals. The amp takes pedals extremely well.
This mismatched 6v6 quad has a crunch that is not dissimilar to the EL34's at exactly the same settings. That is a pleasant surprise. They don't have the compression the EL34's have...they feel a little snappier or more rigid...but their tone is closer to the EL34 than to a 6L6 IMO. I'd say they are more tonally balanced than EL34, just not quite as bright (this is a dark sounding amp...), but their tone doesn't get grainy and harsh as you crank the presence knob as it seems to with the 34's/greenbacks. So the presence control can be used liberally ......Overall the tone controls seem to be more responsive with the 6v6's. Somedays I think that EL34's have such a stamp on the tone when their overdriven that the only control that does anything is the treble. Not so with the 6v6's. The tone switches, particularly trim and fat, impart much more significant tonal changes. Trim gets into that fendery midscooped tone, both channels....and fat imparts a more mid-focussed british flavor. With EL34's it was British or thick British.
Most encouraging is that I am getting most of what I want to hear on the beloved Lust channel with the edge of breakup crunch tones, but the BIG plus the 6v6's have over the EL34's is on the Love Channel - the love Channel tones definately shine out better tone. In particular, I am really really digging the Love Channel low gain clean, but surprisingly LOVING the "normal" high gain tones with these tubes with the gain at noon or below. WOW! Awesome alt. blues tones sitting there.
To be frank - with my greenback voiced speaker - I haven't been able to bond with the Love Channel with EL34's. The fizz in the upper mids just kills them. Its where greenbacks and 34's work together to give classic rock, but is so far away from american tonality that the clean channel just doesn't cut it with this configuration. I'd guess a less british speaker with EL34's would be another way to work around this.
With 6v6's I'm getting better use out of all the channels and tone switches of this amp. Its got a more laid back tone that inspires more to blues than to hard rock.....compared to EL34's.... but the tonal flexibility I think will win the 6v6 over the EL34 configuration for my gigging neeeds.
One further thing....given that these tubes bias up like EL34's, I'm thinking it may very well be possible to configure the amp with a one set of 6v6's and EL34's sitting in the amp, one as an inside and the other as an outside pair - so when I run in half power mode, I get the 6v6's by themselves with their 2x14W output....and then when I flip to full power I get the 6v6 and EL34 working together in tandem. Blues to hard rock at the flick of a switch? I'm going to give this a whirl after I can confirm I'm not going to blow up tubes or something by doing this.
I've also heard that good crossover tones can be found with KT77's or 6CA7's.....??? Any experience out there?
Also, I'd like to hear what this amp sounds like with Celestion Golds.
However - curious that the Bogner Goldfinger uses 6v6's to get pretty authentic crossover tones, I wanted to try 6v6's in the Heartbreaker which should, by its design, be THE premier crossover amp.
I got a two sets of matched pairs....eg.....a pair of JJ's and a pair of Tungsol RI's, and they are matched as a quad. Thanks to thetubestore for undertaking such an unusual request.
Using the Mesa back panel instructions, I put the bias on the 6L6/6v6 setting and loaded the new tubes. They farted out with no tone. So I got in touch with thetubestore guys who looked into the Heartbreaker design data and told me that at the tweed voltages, 6v6's don't bias at all like 6L6's (like the Mesa bias switch would appear to instruct)....in fact, they bias very close to what Mesa has their EL34 switch biased at tweed voltages.
So I switched the bias over to EL34 with the 6v6's and the tubes came to life. I will say that the 6v6 quad, although they rate right dab in the center of the idle current ratings, remain just a tad cold using the EL34 bias, and just as advice to other's that may be convinced to give this a try, get tube selections that will bias a little hotter with the EL34 bias switch in tweed. The bias voltages are found in a chart on one of the latter pages of the Heartbreaker schematic which can be found in a websearch.
Now, I didn't know if I'd like the JJ's or the Tungsols, as these are opposite flavors of 6v6's from what I gathered from some samplings of written opinion on different gear forums.....which is why I ordered a pair of each, and again, the two pairs were also matched.
In researching more details like tube output impedances and the like, I am taken to understand that when running one pair of 6v6's I would ideally have to run a 16 ohm speaker in the 4 ohm jack for a close to output tube impedance match with the HB transformer. Unfortunately, I only own an 1x12 8 ohm speaker, and I found that running a single pair using my impedances didn't quite cut it, probably because the bias remains a hair cold and the speaker/impedances mismatch probably just set it in the wrong direction....However, running the pairs as a quad gives me pretty good tone, and certainly better than either pair individually.
For comparison, I run my EL34's on edge of breakup. They have a sweet compression and crunch to them that I love and that makes me want to play hard rock all the time - but I don't push them into mush zone like vintage Marshall guys love - I leave them on the edge of breakup....Masters at noon or slightly better. If I need more drive...pedals. The amp takes pedals extremely well.
This mismatched 6v6 quad has a crunch that is not dissimilar to the EL34's at exactly the same settings. That is a pleasant surprise. They don't have the compression the EL34's have...they feel a little snappier or more rigid...but their tone is closer to the EL34 than to a 6L6 IMO. I'd say they are more tonally balanced than EL34, just not quite as bright (this is a dark sounding amp...), but their tone doesn't get grainy and harsh as you crank the presence knob as it seems to with the 34's/greenbacks. So the presence control can be used liberally ......Overall the tone controls seem to be more responsive with the 6v6's. Somedays I think that EL34's have such a stamp on the tone when their overdriven that the only control that does anything is the treble. Not so with the 6v6's. The tone switches, particularly trim and fat, impart much more significant tonal changes. Trim gets into that fendery midscooped tone, both channels....and fat imparts a more mid-focussed british flavor. With EL34's it was British or thick British.
Most encouraging is that I am getting most of what I want to hear on the beloved Lust channel with the edge of breakup crunch tones, but the BIG plus the 6v6's have over the EL34's is on the Love Channel - the love Channel tones definately shine out better tone. In particular, I am really really digging the Love Channel low gain clean, but surprisingly LOVING the "normal" high gain tones with these tubes with the gain at noon or below. WOW! Awesome alt. blues tones sitting there.
To be frank - with my greenback voiced speaker - I haven't been able to bond with the Love Channel with EL34's. The fizz in the upper mids just kills them. Its where greenbacks and 34's work together to give classic rock, but is so far away from american tonality that the clean channel just doesn't cut it with this configuration. I'd guess a less british speaker with EL34's would be another way to work around this.
With 6v6's I'm getting better use out of all the channels and tone switches of this amp. Its got a more laid back tone that inspires more to blues than to hard rock.....compared to EL34's.... but the tonal flexibility I think will win the 6v6 over the EL34 configuration for my gigging neeeds.
One further thing....given that these tubes bias up like EL34's, I'm thinking it may very well be possible to configure the amp with a one set of 6v6's and EL34's sitting in the amp, one as an inside and the other as an outside pair - so when I run in half power mode, I get the 6v6's by themselves with their 2x14W output....and then when I flip to full power I get the 6v6 and EL34 working together in tandem. Blues to hard rock at the flick of a switch? I'm going to give this a whirl after I can confirm I'm not going to blow up tubes or something by doing this.
I've also heard that good crossover tones can be found with KT77's or 6CA7's.....??? Any experience out there?
Also, I'd like to hear what this amp sounds like with Celestion Golds.
Right on! I miss my Heartbreaker!
