FX loop tone degradation

[nicoroy123]

Hi guys, need your input on something.

Yesterday, while practicing with the band, I realized how much tone I was losing with my FX Loop engaged. Toggling it on/off with the MV's footswitch make me realize how serious it was, all members of the band realizing it too.

Here is the chain:
FX Send> 10 feet cable > Boss CE-5 > 6 inches cable > Boss DD-3 > 10 feet cable > FX Return.

My FX loop volume knob was at 12:00. No matter if I increased the volume or not, it was like having a low-pass filter on my sound!.

So now, would it be because of the 2 X 10feet cables or simply because these two Boss pedals are big tone suckers?

Thanks

 

[Supreeth]

Does the same thing happen if you don't have pedals connected and just toggle the FX button on the footswitch? I think it's the Boss pedals' tone sucking feature which would be the likely culprit more than the long cables.

cheers,
Supreeth

 

[phyrexia]

I have a DD20 and a PH1R in my loop and don't have any sort of issues like that. Are they nice cables or crappy cables?

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

Granted, the loop is buffer, so that helps to some extent. But yeah, if you use better pedals and cables, you'll do even better. Regardless of whether you have anything in the loop or not, there is some tone loss when you have the loop engaged. However, it should be fairly negligible. As for me, I run things in the loop, so I can't turn of the loop on my amps... :lol:

 

[Rezamatix]

I am having a similar issue, just took delivery last night, played for 4 hours straight. Brought over the line 6 delay modeler, connected to the fx loop. loss of volume and tone was major. so much that im almost bummed about the amp...is there something i can do to make this work? OR...is there a delay that anyone can recommend that works in the fx loop of the mkv that wont do this to the sound...please help...

 

[th0rr]

I am having a similar issue, just took delivery last night, played for 4 hours straight. Brought over the line 6 delay modeler, connected to the fx loop. loss of volume and tone was major. so much that im almost bummed about the amp...is there something i can do to make this work? OR...is there a delay that anyone can recommend that works in the fx loop of the mkv that wont do this to the sound...please help...

Not sure if this helps but I am using a Boss DD-2 delay with no issues. Maybe you could try a different brand of delay? Do your friends have something you could borrow to try out? Also what is your level set at on the loop? I have mine at 12 O'clock. No issues.

Also I am using very short cables. 6 inches. Since the Mark V has a switch to engage the FX I just keep the delay on the amp always on and use the footswitch to engage and disengage the delay.

 

[Newysurfer]

Gotta say I'm bemused by you guys owning a Mark v and then sticking crap Boss and Line 6 pedals into it.
You're literally mixing coke into Bollinger.
Both Boss and Line 6 pedals are infamous for being tone suckers cause they use poor quality buffers in most of their pedals.
The Boss CE and DD series usually tone suck the least of all their pedals but running 2 together doubles it.
The higher quality in tube amp tone you go the more you'll notice tone degradation.
Doesn't your exy new Mark V deserve high quality effects with true bypass ?? :mrgreen:

 

[Rezamatix]

Gotta say I'm bemused by you guys owning a Mark v and then sticking crap Boss and Line 6 pedals into it.
You're literally mixing coke into Bollinger.
Both Boss and Line 6 pedals are infamous for being tone suckers cause they use poor quality buffers in most of their pedals.
The Boss CE and DD series usually tone suck the least of all their pedals but running 2 together doubles it.
The higher quality in tube amp tone you go the more you'll notice tone degradation.
Doesn't your exy new Mark V deserve high quality effects with true bypass ?? :mrgreen:

ok, as happy as i am that you are bemused, i was actually seeking constructive help to solve my problem. the amp is not just losing a little volume or tone , but ALOT, i would say its dropping about 40 percent volume and all the high end is gone. is there a better delay pedal you can recommend to run the in the loop that will not do this? the efx control in the back on the amp is at 12 oclock and everything else on the amp seems to be perfect, just want to know whats up with the fx loop and what i can do to get some delays thru it without losing all the volume and high end...

 

[4406cuda]

I am using the TC Electronics Nova Delay in the loop and getting great results with it.

 

[nicoroy123]

Gotta say I'm bemused by you guys owning a Mark v and then sticking crap Boss and Line 6 pedals into it.
You're literally mixing coke into Bollinger.
Both Boss and Line 6 pedals are infamous for being tone suckers cause they use poor quality buffers in most of their pedals.
The Boss CE and DD series usually tone suck the least of all their pedals but running 2 together doubles it.
The higher quality in tube amp tone you go the more you'll notice tone degradation.
Doesn't your exy new Mark V deserve high quality effects with true bypass ?? :mrgreen:

ok, as happy as i am that you are bemused, i was actually seeking constructive help to solve my problem. the amp is not just losing a little volume or tone , but ALOT, i would say its dropping about 40 percent volume and all the high end is gone. is there a better delay pedal you can recommend to run the in the loop that will not do this? the efx control in the back on the amp is at 12 oclock and everything else on the amp seems to be perfect, just want to know whats up with the fx loop and what i can do to get some delays thru it without losing all the volume and high end...

I had two boss pedals in the loop with 2 times 10feet cables. I just bought an MXR carbon copy and dropped the CE-5.
There is a BIG improvement.

I will left the CE-5 off the loop until I find a better replacement. So I will only use the Carbon Copy for now, which does an amazing job BTW.

Any recommendation for a good True Bypass Chorus (must be 9V).

 

[Gizzorge]

for the pedal snobs to read:


http://www.petecornish.co.uk/case_against_true_bypass.html

 

[Newysurfer]

Gotta say I'm bemused by you guys owning a Mark v and then sticking crap Boss and Line 6 pedals into it.
You're literally mixing coke into Bollinger.
Both Boss and Line 6 pedals are infamous for being tone suckers cause they use poor quality buffers in most of their pedals.
The Boss CE and DD series usually tone suck the least of all their pedals but running 2 together doubles it.
The higher quality in tube amp tone you go the more you'll notice tone degradation.
Doesn't your exy new Mark V deserve high quality effects with true bypass ?? :mrgreen:

ok, as happy as i am that you are bemused, i was actually seeking constructive help to solve my problem. the amp is not just losing a little volume or tone , but ALOT, i would say its dropping about 40 percent volume and all the high end is gone. is there a better delay pedal you can recommend to run the in the loop that will not do this? the efx control in the back on the amp is at 12 oclock and everything else on the amp seems to be perfect, just want to know whats up with the fx loop and what i can do to get some delays thru it without losing all the volume and high end...

Well I was being constructive to be fair. I said that your Boss pedals are probably part of the problem. But then you say you've got a 40% volume drop & all the high end is gone. Boss pedals are tone suckers but not THAT bad. I'd go searching for other reasons by a process of elimination. Could be the cables, pedals or an amp issue. You've probably got several issues causing your prob's.

Once you've found the culprit(s) you'll sound much better if you get high quality true bypass pedals that are worthy of your Mark V. For Digital Delay and Chorus/Lesley I can highly recommend these.

Analogman Mini Chorus or Bi-Chorus.
http://www.analogman.com/clone.htm

The TC Electronics Nova Delay
http://www.tcelectronic.com/novadelay.asp

Or if you wanna go a bit cheaper & less features this new Nova Repeater is great
http://www.tcelectronic.com/novarepeaterfeatures.asp

These sound much better on and off, have more features, are more versatile and are true bypass.
Basically stay away from the Boss, Line 6, Behringer el cheapos.

In analog Delay the MXR Carbon Copy & EH Memory Man are great also. In Digital delay the Timefactor gets great reviews. but is exy $$ :mrgreen:

 

[Rezamatix]

thanks for that very informative post. i am checking out the nova and the eventide as we speak.

 

[th0rr]

thanks for that very informative post. i am checking out the nova and the eventide as we speak.

I just came across this.You may also want to check out the Malekko, http://www.proguitarshop.com/product.php?ProductID=1689&CategoryID= .

I do believe that this is gonna be my next delay. A couple of cool options, the ability to engage switch between true bypass or buffered loop to suit your rig and also the modulation adjustments are via external knobs versus internal POTs like in some other delay pedals.

My DD-2 is getting dated.

 

[Rezamatix]

thanks for that very informative post. i am checking out the nova and the eventide as we speak.

I just came across this.You may also want to check out the Malekko, http://www.proguitarshop.com/product.php?ProductID=1689&CategoryID= .

I do believe that this is gonna be my next delay. A couple of cool options, the ability to engage switch between true bypass or buffered loop to suit your rig and also the modulation adjustments are via external knobs versus internal POTs like in some other delay pedals.

My DD-2 is getting dated.

I figured out what my issue was, its the setting of each channel master vs. the output master knob, you have to keep the channel masters below 11 oclock and the master output knob at noon...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHCqO7SUimU

 

[BigDogJP6]

G-Major has level drop and tone degradation issue. G-force works just fine.