YellowJacket
Well-known member
:lol:TheMagicEight said:Or a Digitech Death Metal :lol:
:lol:TheMagicEight said:Or a Digitech Death Metal :lol:
seerenity said:Playing devils advocate...
When it comes to death metal, it becomes so saturated that it is tough to tell the difference between a multi thousand dollar boogie and a cheap modeling amp...
While I have no doubt that the Recto does sound better, I doubt I could tell a big difference at first.
I think a lot of people get their hands on an expensive amp like a Recto and ignore the tone controls, going straight for volume and gain. I've heard many of them set up to sound like fizz because the people playing just don't get that you need to find settings.YellowJacket said:What is it with Metal players and wanted to saturate their sound anyway? When I read up on high gain heads, I feel like I am the only player in the world who turns the gain down so he can hear the tone from his guitar. Even if I did metal, I'd opt for a creamier crunch over a BRUUTALZ sound. In my mind, heaviness should come more from what and how you are playing than from amp settings. Come on, learn more chords than stupid two note power chords.
I think you got it right there! I've owned the Mark IV for only two - three weeks now. And during the first week, there are many times I've actually wondered if the Hardwire TL-2 that I have is better when it comes to actual playing. Its so much easier to play on the TL-2 into the clean channel of a tube amp. You get the raging rich saturated fizzy distortion and the tube sag because of the tube amp.TheMagicEight said:Thinking out loud now: maybe the reason he likes the Death Metal over the Dual is because he's used to needing only a light touch from the ridiculous amount of tight gain on tap. To us it sounds like fizz - because it is - but maybe tight fizz is better than loose flub of a Dual with bad settings? Tell him to get a Krank!
Yeah but I'd know. I seem to play cleaner on my Mark IV vs any ss modeler because I think I'm trying harder on my tube amp. The feel and feedback from a Mesa is so much more, for lack of a better word, personal than transistors. The amp becomes one with your mood and personality whereas my technique and mood dont come into play with the digitech crap.emperor_black said:I think you got it right there! I've owned the Mark IV for only two - three weeks now. And during the first week, there are many times I've actually wondered if the Hardwire TL-2 that I have is better when it comes to actual playing. Its so much easier to play on the TL-2 into the clean channel of a tube amp. You get the raging rich saturated fizzy distortion and the tube sag because of the tube amp.TheMagicEight said:Thinking out loud now: maybe the reason he likes the Death Metal over the Dual is because he's used to needing only a light touch from the ridiculous amount of tight gain on tap. To us it sounds like fizz - because it is - but maybe tight fizz is better than loose flub of a Dual with bad settings? Tell him to get a Krank!
But once I go back to the Mark IV, I love the touch sensitivity it has even on the high gain settings. The notes are fat and precise; something the pedals cant do. They always end up thin sounding. As far as the audience is concerned, I dont think they would know the difference between a pedal and a great amp. Why, on the gigantour, I could hardly hear Mustaine's guitar sounds over the sh!t PA. In a small club, if they're playing metal, usually they crank up the volume all you can hear is mostly plain noise.
TheMagicEight said:I think a lot of people get their hands on an expensive amp like a Recto and ignore the tone controls, going straight for volume and gain. I've heard many of them set up to sound like fizz because the people playing just don't get that you need to find settings.
What I'm realizing is that you can't substitute technique for gain or a boost pedal; I'm saying good technique on one amp might be lousy on another. My XTC, for example, practically plays itself. You can have a feather light touch and the notes jump off the fretboard. My Rectifiers, if I'm not really hitting the strings, will begin to sound a little flat. That said, you can't get any other amp to sound like a Recto; that's just how you need to play.
My point is that with the method of really wailing on guitar, you don't actually need the gain up too high. In fact, the only thing extra gain will do in some cases is create mud and fizz, the common complaint of these amps. I'm in complete agreement with you over turning the gain down; not only does it sound creamier to me, but because you're not overloading the gain stages to create flub, as long as you're playing correctly, it will be tighter and heavier.
Thinking out loud now: maybe the reason he likes the Death Metal over the Dual is because he's used to needing only a light touch from the ridiculous amount of tight gain on tap. To us it sounds like fizz - because it is - but maybe tight fizz is better than loose flub of a Dual with bad settings? Tell him to get a Krank!
emperor_black said:I think you got it right there! I've owned the Mark IV for only two - three weeks now. And during the first week, there are many times I've actually wondered if the Hardwire TL-2 that I have is better when it comes to actual playing. Its so much easier to play on the TL-2 into the clean channel of a tube amp. You get the raging rich saturated fizzy distortion and the tube sag because of the tube amp.
But once I go back to the Mark IV, I love the touch sensitivity it has even on the high gain settings. The notes are fat and precise; something the pedals cant do. They always end up thin sounding. As far as the audience is concerned, I dont think they would know the difference between a pedal and a great amp. Why, on the gigantour, I could hardly hear Mustaine's guitar sounds over the sh!t PA. In a small club, if they're playing metal, usually they crank up the volume all you can hear is mostly plain noise.
ryjan said:Yeah but I'd know. I seem to play cleaner on my Mark IV vs any ss modeler because I think I'm trying harder on my tube amp. The feel and feedback from a Mesa is so much more, for lack of a better word, personal than transistors. The amp becomes one with your mood and personality whereas my technique and mood dont come into play with the digitech crap.
I hate those 1960a cabs. The design itself is alright - though I'd take a Recto 4x12 any day over them - but the G12T-75s make for a thin, flat tone. I think the only reason they're popular is because they were the first set of speakers Marshall endorsed for being powerful enough to handle their 100w heads without needing a full stack.YellowJacket said:Just one other thought. What do you guys think about chasing studio tones? I have been shocked what some bands sound like live vs in the studio. For instance, Greenday's tone live is absolutely TERRIBLE but it sounds awesome on the album Dookie. I also love SOD's studio tone--it is so phat--but ****, it was terrible live. =-/ Sum 41, however, sounds virtually the same in both situations.
I have been haunted since this summer by the absolutely awesome tone I got with a TSL 100 minus two tubes going through my Standard Rectocab. I always hated Marshalls but I guess it was the 1960a cabs I didn't like because ****, that sounded GREAT! I was curious so I have listened to a bunch of Youtube tone clips to try to find what it is I like, but honestly, they all sound like ***. The Marshall settings are always scooped to all hell, frightfully bright, and buzzy to high heaven. The Mesas are no better. In all my internet wanderings, it was impossible to find what I really like about both amps in my own experience. Is dialing in guitar tone like expecting people to custom design wedding rings? Is it THAT hard to make any equipment sound decent?
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