Express 5:50 ... metal?

[LP1981]

Hey people,

I'm new here and i have a question for you guys concerning the express and metal. I'll be testing out an Express 5:50 soon but i was wondering whether you're able to play metal with this amp à la Metallica, Ozzy etc.. maybe Children of Bodom too?
I read that the express isn't really for metal. Is this true?
For those who do play metal with this amp what pedal goes well with the Express?

thanks in advance!

 

[smd24fan]

I used to have an Express before I bought my Mark V. It is my opinion that you can't get the sounds you mentioned with this amp without boosting it. Don't get me wrong, the burn channel on the 5:50 sounds awesome to my ear, but the sounds you mention are more like what a Recto would provide. Having said that, you can get a pretty heavy tone out of the Express with a good OD. I'll let current Express owners chime in on what pedals they prefer, but I have had awesome results with a BB Preamp, Keeley TS-9, and the Maxon OD808 which I currently use with my Mark V as well. Hope this helps you out.

 

[kekam35]

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=37405

 

[edward]

Metal with an Express? I wouldn't. IMHO, if you want real metal tone, get a Mark: a MkIII Simul for hard/aggressive rawness, or a MkIV for liquidy saturation. Either will get you there without breathing hard. Can't speak to the MkV ...it's probably "there" but I can't say personally. The Express is a different animal completely.

Edward

 

[GD_NC]

The Express is a great amp but not really geared to Metal. You'd probably be much happier with a Recto, Stiletto, or Mark. Those amps all do Metal with ease. As for which one. That's a harder choice.

Mark - tight, fast, articulate with clean, searing or nasty leads
Recto - extend bottom w/ lots of thump and chug (great for drop tuned, 7 string)
Stiletto - old school metal - Mesa's take on the Marshall/plex-ish sound plus much more

if you are hunting the used market. DC's are also a great choice for Metal if you can find one.

 

[Newysurfer]

Metal with an Express? I wouldn't. IMHO, if you want real metal tone, get a Mark: a MkIII Simul for hard/aggressive rawness, or a MkIV for liquidy saturation. Either will get you there without breathing hard. Can't speak to the MkV ...it's probably "there" but I can't say personally. The Express is a different animal completely.

Edward

Geez Edward.... he's asking about a 5:50 again.
You own a 5:25. Like you said ... it's a different animal :mrgreen:

And LP1981 .... the other guys are right - the 5:50 doesn't do what I call metal.Doesn't have quite enuf gain.
Does Foo Fighters, Pearl Jam, Nirvana etc heavy rock though.
Takes all pedals fantastic too so for metal I recommend a Dirty Bomb, or MI-Audio Tube Zone, or what I use is a Crunchbox mid scooped with an MXR EQ pedal

 

[edward]

Ya, I know ...I should have been more clear; sorry. After I got my 5:25, I was curious and went over to try a 5:50. I liked it ...not any more than my 5:25 tone (other than the obvious that the speaker and cab were larger in the combo I tried). But as I knew how to "navigate" the knobs on the express, I goofed with the 5:50 for a while. Again, nice amp, but just does not have the thick saturation that Mark IIIs, IVs, and DCs have. If one is looking for metal tone, you could do better than a 5:50 ...no slam on the 5:50 by any stretch. But it just is not the best choice (or even a good choice) ...IMHO, of course

Edward

 

[EtherealWidow]

Express absolutely does black metal. Not thrash, power, speed, death, or grind. But Blackened Atmospheric Doom, absolutely.

 

[emperor_black]

I tried a 5:50 recently and no it cannot do metal with passive buckers and no pedals. I even plugged in a Epiphone LP with active EMG's and still the max it got was AC/DC type tones at max gain and at 5 watt setting. Same guitars through a DR in the same guitar shop gave instant metal tones but still very fizzy sounding because the amp was not cranked up.

But I've come to the conclusion that any tube amp can be made to sound great metal tones with a good OD pedal and an EQ pedal in the loop. I have been tweaking my el cheapo crate v33 head and with a Monte allums mod'd MT-2 as an OD pedal, and a Boss GE-7 in the loop, I'm getting great metal tones the likes of lamb of god, obituary, gojira, death and so on.

 

[LP1981]

What about the F-50? I read it has more gain than the Express series. Is this correct?

 

[TimeSignature]

The F50 has more gain, yes. I'd still go with the Express, scooped mids with a tube screamer in front.

I have owned both amps.

Maybe it was just me, but there was something a little off when it came to the gain of the F50. It was ok though.

 

[Newysurfer]

What about the F-50? I read it has more gain than the Express series. Is this correct?

Yep ...F-50 has more gain for sure but you'll still need to mid-scoop it for real metal tones.

LP - if metal tones without pedal help in a combo is real important to you look at a Rectoverb or Mark Series amp.

Personally, I play a little metal also but great clean & OD channels are more important to me than super high gain. No amp (except the Roadster & Mark V) does everything great from clean thru to high gain. They all compromise something at either the clean or high gain end....so....

I reckon it's more important to have great cleans because that's your base tone for pedals. If you have ordinary cleans then all your pedals will sound ordinary. But if you have great cleans and a series loop then you've got a very pedal friendly amp and your high gain pedals will sound fantastic for metal tones. I think that's the design concept Mesa used on the 5:50 and that's a main reason I bought it :mrgreen:

Oh ...and what the hell is "Blackened Atmospheric Doom".
Can someone give me an example

 

[soundchaser59]

...and what the hell is "Blackened Atmospheric Doom".

that's a form of heavy metal??

All this time I thought I was getting that by eating greasy texmex......

 

[emperor_black]

I think Summoning is a good example of what 'Atmospheric doom metal" sounds like... used to be one of my fav bands...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsHmAplC7Ws&feature=related

 

[ryjan]

...and what the hell is "Blackened Atmospheric Doom".

that's a form of heavy metal??

All this time I thought I was getting that by eating greasy texmex......

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[edward]

What about the F-50? I read it has more gain than the Express series. Is this correct?

Yes, the F50 has more gain and thicker saturation. But for metal tone, I personally think one is far better off with a Mark or DC for two reasons: the nature of the gain's tone/dynamics is really "lively" and responsive, and the GEQ gives you FAR more tone shaping ability than any contour knob could even dream of. The contour is a "nice" add-on, and better to have it than not; but the GEQ is a serious tone-shaping tool! No comparison.

Some woulds also say Recto, too ...I won't disagree, but Mark and DC cleans are nicer IMHO, if that's a consideration for you. No knock on the F50 ...nice amp. But IMHO it was a backward step for Mesa when they superseded the DC with the F-Series.

Edward

 

[Fcal124]

I use a Digitech Hardwire TL-2 pedal with my 5:50 2x12 and it gets very close to a rectifier sound.
If I'm playing all metal, I use my RKII

 

[emperor_black]

I use a Digitech Hardwire TL-2 pedal with my 5:50 2x12 and it gets very close to a rectifier sound.
If I'm playing all metal, I use my RKII

I tried a TL-2 into the clean of the MK IV just for kicks and did not like it. Are you using the tight mode or loose mode? I love the loose mode but it turns too flubby with passive pups. The tight is great but it has that nasaly midrange honk that just irritates the hell out of me. I'm thinking about trading that pedal for a good tuner.

 

[HaggertysMusic]

I've had no problem getting a great metal sound with a 5:50 and an EQ in the loop to tame the mids. It certainly gives it a "mark" vibe.

Don't forget cab's have a tremendous impact here. A 1x12 open back with a c90 is not going to get you there. I've had great results with the 2x12 recto cab loaded with V30's.

I don't buy the F50 is better for metal than the 5:50 story... I've spent a lot of time with both and they are so similar. If someone can hear the difference, it's slight.

 

[Newysurfer]

I've had no problem getting a great metal sound with a 5:50 and an EQ in the loop to tame the mids. It certainly gives it a "mark" vibe.

Don't forget cab's have a tremendous impact here. A 1x12 open back with a c90 is not going to get you there. I've had great results with the 2x12 recto cab loaded with V30's.

I don't buy the F50 is better for metal than the 5:50 story... I've spent a lot of time with both and they are so similar. If someone can hear the difference, it's slight.

+1 with Haggerty in part....
although the F-50 does have more gain so it does produce a heavier distortion tone IMO.
The 5:50 doesn't produce a satisfactory metal tone for what I call metal. Just not quite enuf gain.
What I use for that is an MI-Audio Crunchbox mid scooped with an MXR EQ pedal into the 5:50's clean channel.
It's more of a Mark series metal tone than a Recto one.
If you wanna hear what that sounds like click on my Soundclick link below and scroll down to track 32 at the bottom to "metal tester" :mrgreen: