Dual Rec tone issue - advice needed

[Onepointfive]

Hi all,

New to this board, so apologies if a problem like this has been posted previously.

Recently bought a secondhand Dual Rec 3 channel head and am having some problems with it.

Sounds ok at low levels but i drove it quite hard the other day at a practice and it sounded terrible, broke up really quickly and sounded awful! No bottom end, no clarity and really raspy. Sounded like 'white noise'.

I'm running it though an Engl 4x12 Cross-loaded with two V30's and two V60's at 8ohms - so i really dont think it's that.

I played around with it a little at home, and noticed that the last two vavles (the two on the far right, if you look from the back) were not warming up (glowing), and i think i could have a valve problem.

I want to try and eliminate all other problems before i spend a lot of money on new valves, but as it's secondhand, i have no way of telling how old the valves are! It's currently loaded with 6L6's

As i'm new to boogie's, maybe i'm just missing something obvious? I'm drop tuning to A, and i'm after a really tight percussive kind of tone (Periphery, etc) - any settings advice would be appreciated too! eg, running it bold or spongy, etc.

Also, this is only a small issue, but the power light on the front is green? I thought all dual recs were red? - obviously this could have been a small mod by a previous owner.

Really appreciate any advice!

 

[domct203]

Welcome to The Board.

The two tubes on the far right when viewed from the rear of the amp are the 5U4GB Rectifier tubes and do not glow very brightly, check again in a dark room. If you switch the amp to "Tube Rectifier" and the amp works, these tubes are fine.

I highly recommend you download and read the amp's manual if you do not have one. The amp's features and settings are clearly explained:
http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/user_manuals.htm

What channels of the amp are you getting this "white noise"? How high is the Gain & Treble? Mesa's do not dial in like most amps, what are your Gain, EQ, Channel Master, Output, Mode and Power settings?

FWIW, I would change all the tubes to new Mesa tubes. You don't know how much use is left on the ones in the amp, and you will set the amp back to it's basic tone.

Dom

 

[Onepointfive]

Hi Dom,

Thanks for the welcome. And thanks for the tip on the Tubes, i'll check them again tonight in a dark room. - But it was running on tube rectifier, so i guess they're working.

It was the third channell, set to 'modern' - clean sounded ok, quite warm, and the 2nd channel sounded ok, but i didn't drive it too hard.

i bypassed the loop so the solo / master volumes were not used, but roughly the setting were;

Presence about 2 o'clock
Volume about 12 o'clock
Gain 2 o'clock
Bass 3 or 4 o'clock
Mid 1 o'clock
Treble 12 o'clock

Set to BOLD and using the 6L6's

I know that the presense / bass / treble are all linked in, and i'm coming from playing a Marshall JCM2000 DSL50, so it's going to a learning curve, But i was shocked at how bad i managed to get my boogie to sound!

Palm muting sounded truly horrible and loose, the rest just completely lacked any clarity, The other guitarist was using a stock Engl Powerball and his tone was far better in the mix (which should NOT be the case!!!)

And i've been playing a good long while, so it's not technique :wink:
I'm not running any FX, apart from an MXR smart gate (but that was not being used at this practice)

Would i be better off putting up the channel volume higher and using the master volume to regulate?

Again, appreciate your advice, I will contest, i'm a total Boogie noob, and i've heard before they can be twitchy (but worth it!)

Anyone out there kind enough to point me in the right direction for a 'basic' metal set-up? So i have a starting block and i can work from there?

 

[Dave G.]

Again, appreciate your advice, I will contest, i'm a total Boogie noob, and i've heard before they can be twitchy (but worth it!)

Anyone out there kind enough to point me in the right direction for a 'basic' metal set-up? So i have a starting block and i can work from there?

I dunno if these setting will be to your liking but here is my setup that allows the palm mutes to really come through and also keeps the amps clarity!

I use channel 2 on modern, Bold setting and tube rectifiers.

Presence on 3.30 o clock.
Master on 11 o clock.
gain on 2 o clock.
Bass on 9 o clock.
mids on 12 o clock
Treble on 2.30 o clock. Dont Be afraid of those high treble and presence settings btw!

i boost it with a 10 band eq or an overdrive..(waitin on my new Bad Monkey)
Anyway try them settings and let me know how you get on. If you prefere channel 3 i can give you some settings i like for that if the channel 2 doesnt do it for you.

 

[Onepointfive]

Thanks Dave! i'll give those setting a try tonight, at least gives me a referrence point!

More i'm thinking about it I think i'm going to have to bite the bullet and get the whole thing re-valved. I'm almost certain the tubes in there are stock and have probably never been replaced. :shock:

 

[Steve@Russo]

my amp sounded like crap when I put the fx loop in, bad tube that is it, spend 50 on pre tubes and see if not, swap power tubes, if not, tech

 

[jbird]

Ya might try the diodes instead of tubes for rectification, should tighten things up a little!

 

[UnderJollyRoger]

Bass on 3 or 4 o'clock sounds pretty heavy. Most people don't put this knob too far on the right on a rectifier

 

[Onepointfive]

Cheers JBird - i'm going to try that and see it it'll tighten up the bottom end.

And yeah, was thinking maybe i put too much bass into the tone, might drop that back and put some more mid in to get the 'punch' i'm after.

Some good tips guys, thanks.

 

[]devilRED[]

Again, appreciate your advice, I will contest, i'm a total Boogie noob, and i've heard before they can be twitchy (but worth it!)

Anyone out there kind enough to point me in the right direction for a 'basic' metal set-up? So i have a starting block and i can work from there?

I dunno if these setting will be to your liking but here is my setup that allows the palm mutes to really come through and also keeps the amps clarity!

I use channel 2 on modern, Bold setting and tube rectifiers.

Presence on 3.30 o clock.
Master on 11 o clock.

gain on 2 o clock.
Bass on 9 o clock.
mids on 12 o clock
Treble on 2.30 o clock. Dont Be afraid of those high treble and presence settings btw!

i boost it with a 10 band eq or an overdrive..(waitin on my new Bad Monkey)
Anyway try them settings and let me know how you get on. If you prefere channel 3 i can give you some settings i like for that if the channel 2 doesnt do it for you.

Most ppl including myself, don't use the presence knob past the 9:30 o'clock

 

[mesaboogie6L6]

As far as the power light goes, you can change them to any color you want to, they are called jewels and they cover the pilot light, they just screw off and on, Mesa sells them, not expensive at all, blue, green, red and purple.

 

[screamingdaisy]

i bypassed the loop so the solo / master volumes were not used, but roughly the setting were;

Presence about 2 o'clock
Volume about 12 o'clock
Gain 2 o'clock
Bass 3 or 4 o'clock
Mid 1 o'clock
Treble 12 o'clock

Set to BOLD and using the 6L6's

Those settings would be good on a Marhsall.

Anyway, if you're in modern these settings will get you close to the standard Recto sound;

Gain - 12:00-1:00
Treb - 1:00
Mids - 11:00
Bass - 12:00
Pres - 1:00 (although some people prefer to run it much lower)

Run the amp on bold and silicone diodes for maximum power and quicker response.

If you're after that tighter Djent tone than you also need to boost it with a Tubescreamer.

 

[Dave G.]

Most ppl including myself, don't use the presence knob past the 9:30 o'clock

Yeah i know alot of people are scared off the presence and treble knobs...especially on rectos....but give it a go. Its worth it in the end. I know a few people now that love it. Yer man Feared on youtube (who im sure one or two of you have seen) pointed me towards those settings and his tone is amazing imo. I find those settings sound even better in a live situation when you can really crank the amp.

 

[cradlefish]

Regardless which tube amp you get. You should always have a spare set of tubes at your disposal at all times especially for
troubleshooting purposes and buying used tube amps. You never know the remaining life of the tubes in there. Trust me on this. If you plan on owning tube amps for the rest of your life? Don't be a cheapass. Go and order yourself some preamp and power tubes for future use.

 

[]devilRED[]

Most ppl including myself, don't use the presence knob past the 9:30 o'clock

Yeah i know alot of people are scared off the presence and treble knobs...especially on rectos....but give it a go. Its worth it in the end. I know a few people now that love it. Yer man Feared on youtube (who im sure one or two of you have seen) pointed me towards those settings and his tone is amazing imo. I find those settings sound even better in a live situation when you can really crank the amp.

I too love the sound from fearedse not feared but i think that he uses the vintage mode, not the modern, so he uses more presence and treble