I recently purchased an amp that has a Class A power section that uses EL34s. The touch sensitivity is amazing. Is it possible to get this type of sensitivity from a Dual Rec? Is it possible to convert a Dual Rec power section to Class A from A/B? Anybody but me ever thought about this?
Dual Rec - Class A Sensitivity
- Thread starter kramerxxx
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Kind of what I thought, thanks.
So, you have tried the Yellow Jackets? They seem to have gone up in price and popularity as of late but I don't know anyone personally that has owned them.
I think adding a OD pedal in front of the Dual Rec and pushing the input gives close to the same effect as what I will call the 'Class A' effect but it would be nice if there was a way to get this without the comberance of a pedal in front of the amp.
So, you have tried the Yellow Jackets? They seem to have gone up in price and popularity as of late but I don't know anyone personally that has owned them.
I think adding a OD pedal in front of the Dual Rec and pushing the input gives close to the same effect as what I will call the 'Class A' effect but it would be nice if there was a way to get this without the comberance of a pedal in front of the amp.
jdurso
Well-known member
kramerxxx said:
i dont wnat to throw this thread OT but can someone explain the difference between class A and class A/B? while those phrases are just thrown around, i never really got the jist.
A simplistic explanation.
Class A means the tube is alway on.
Class A/B means that the tube idles when you aren't providing it input from your guitar.
Class A is not as efficient as A/B but,.....
Tone-wise it gives you a more dynamic 'feel' at the strings, with greater 'urgency' as in: what you pick immediately shows up at the amp.
The problem being that it runs the output tubes VERY hot, thus they wear out faster - in theory.
Randall Smith goes into detail on the Mesa site, if you are interested in a more detailed/technical answer.
Class A means the tube is alway on.
Class A/B means that the tube idles when you aren't providing it input from your guitar.
Class A is not as efficient as A/B but,.....
Tone-wise it gives you a more dynamic 'feel' at the strings, with greater 'urgency' as in: what you pick immediately shows up at the amp.
The problem being that it runs the output tubes VERY hot, thus they wear out faster - in theory.
Randall Smith goes into detail on the Mesa site, if you are interested in a more detailed/technical answer.
kramerxxx said:
Yes, I used them a lot with my Dual Rec. I still have a pair collecting dust somewhere.. was going to sell them but never really got around to it and they might come in handy some day. Any specific things you want to know?
Yes adding an OD gives more oomph and touch to the DR but it's really not the same thing at all in my opinion. It's like a cover of your favorite song
Unfortunately the DR thing is only had with a DR. If you're looking for touch sensitivity and the DR tone minus some of the massive low end, check out a Soldano SLO100
I couldn't bond with it and eventually sold it for a Mark IV and never looked back. Even my Stiletto which is class A/B has tons more dynamics than my DR ever did.
As far as the Class A and A/B thing, what most people call Class A is sort of a misnomer as *true* class A is single ended and not accomplished with a pair of tubes; rather a single power tube. But that's splitting hairs rather thin for most.
jdurso
Well-known member
kramerxxx said:
ok that makes sense (my 300 level EEE classes are starting to come back to me)..... thatnks for the reply and ill check out the site
Platypus said:Unfortunately the DR thing is only had with a DR. If you're looking for touch sensitivity and the DR tone minus some of the massive low end, check out a Soldano SLO100
Well, you have hit the nail right on the head for me here.
I have wanted a SLO for a long time and have had difficulty coming to grips with the price. I guess you have to pay the Piper, huh?
The DR is a great amp but needs to be cranked up to get 'that' sound. I had mine modified so I'll most likely never see the money I've got invested in it back. It sounds better than stock but not 'Soldano' better. I guess this is one more attempt at getting it closer to 'that' sound.
Thanks again for your thoughts
kramerxxx said:Platypus said:Unfortunately the DR thing is only had with a DR. If you're looking for touch sensitivity and the DR tone minus some of the massive low end, check out a Soldano SLO100
Well, you have hit the nail right on the head for me here.
I have wanted a SLO for a long time and have had difficulty coming to grips with the price. I guess you have to pay the Piper, huh?
The DR is a great amp but needs to be cranked up to get 'that' sound. I had mine modified so I'll most likely never see the money I've got invested in it back. It sounds better than stock but not 'Soldano' better. I guess this is one more attempt at getting it closer to 'that' sound.
Thanks again for your thoughts
I feel your pain on this one... I dumped a lot of time and money into my Dual Rec trying to get 'that tone' and I've come to realize through owning tons of amps that if you're not satisifed with the tone 90% from the stock config then it's time to find another amp. I truly wanted to love the DR but it ended up being an expensive stomp box for me when I wanted that crushing huge chord sound. The leads on it I was never pleased with no matter what I did or what tube combination I tried, etc.
I had a moment of clarity when I dialed in the Stiletto for the first time.. it was a kick in the head for me. After that I went searching for that kind of dynamic range in a 6L6 based amp, this I found in spades in my Mark IV.
Tone is a tricky thing, sometimes you just have to scrap what you've got and start over :idea:
Platypus said:
There are a few dual power tube true Class A amps--the THD BiValve for one, but overwhelmingly the rule is true Class A = single power tube.
The only Mesa amp that does true Class A is the LSS in Class A mode.
kramerxxx said:
I don't believe touch sensitivity is limited only to amplifiers of Class A operation. With volume and EQ you can dial it in to some degree. Your speaker choice plays a very important part in achieving this characteristic. But I certainly do agree, regardless the configuration ... be it a single ended power section or a push-pull configuration ... Class A ... there is definitely something good going on there ...
Blue Angel & Maverick are both Cathode Biased, sort of Class A, but not quite.
I own most of Mesa's amps advertised as Class A (everything except the Maverick), and while they're great sounding amps, my understanding is that they're not actually Class A in Electrical Engineering terms.
As far as I know, the Mesa amp that offers true Class A, single-ended operation is the LSS in its Class A mode.
As far as I know, the Mesa amp that offers true Class A, single-ended operation is the LSS in its Class A mode.
jdurso
Well-known member
am i the only one in the guitar world that does not like class A? maybe its the style i play or the fact that my playing is not as dynamic as some other people but of the class a (whether true class a or a mimic'd class a) amps ive played have not really done it for me. ill be the first one to say my chops dont warrant even looking at a class a amp, but i guess theyre just not my cup of tea.
nomad100hd
Well-known member
To be truly class A you need an SE (single ended) amp. With a cathode biased PP amp you can bias it to run class A but it drifts out when pushed.
This is what i'm going to do, i have a modded valve junior that i've written some songs on and simply can't get that sound out of my mesa. So i'm going to build a dummy load/line out and run that into the PA of my mesa for the songs i need that tone.
This is what i'm going to do, i have a modded valve junior that i've written some songs on and simply can't get that sound out of my mesa. So i'm going to build a dummy load/line out and run that into the PA of my mesa for the songs i need that tone.
MetalMatt
Well-known member
Couldn't' you find a class A amp or power amp and slave the recto into it?
nomad100hd
Well-known member
I could build one but i don't know how easy it would be to find one. Generally anything more than 5 or 10 Watts goes PP commercially. The transformers for an SE amp are much larger per watt than a pp amp, so the amp would get heavy fast. IF you want 100W of clean power so your just distorting the pre and not the power amp, it would take something like 8 6l6's and 4 25W OT's. At least 25W are the biggest OT's i remember seeing for an SE amp. I think power amp distortion is where the tone comes from with SE amps.
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