DC Series Clean Tones? Show me your settings.....

[Monsta-Tone]

I love the Lead tones from my DC-3, but the Cleans are still lacking.

I get great Cleans if I use my Maxon Compressor, but then I forget it's on and switch channels and the Lead channel is crappy.


How do you guys have your clean channels set?

What tubes are you using in V1 & V4?




I use a:

PRS McCarty, stock pickups.
2004 US Strat Plus, Rio Grande pups, no S-1 crap.
Planet Waves Cables
Maxon Compressor
Planet Waves Tuner Pedal with true bypass
Morley Bad Horsie II
Maxon AD-808 in the Loop

 

[Rubadub]

My Fender-est cleans on the DC5
are as follows, left to right;
4(pushed in) 5.5 3.5 2 4 2 7.5

I'm playing a McCarty through a small board
with George L's cables
Analogman "comprossor"
Tc chorus driving the DC5 and a Deluxe in stereo.
Analogman looper also gives me tuning (muted)
and a footswitchable loop linking
octaver/envelopefilter/tube driver and overdrive.
If I seat a listener with back to the amps,
the cleans from the DC5 and the Deluxe are
almost indistinguishable.
And I like that.

 

[edward]

DC5 owner and devotee, here. It'll be a little different since I've got 6L6 bottles to your ELs, so not sure how relevant this is to you.

First off, my definition of great cleans is not "pure" clean tone ...I like just a tad of hair on the edges, and then lighten my attack for "cleaner" and pick harder for "hairier." For a single coil axe, I set: T:~3-4 ; M:~3 ; B:~7 ; Pres: ~5 And of course, Gain set ~5 ...up to 7 for a bit more crunchy edge, around 3 for more spank. Remember, too, that treb and mid controls *really* affect your gain so it'll be more difficult for you to stay clean if these are set high.

I also went to a NOS Mullard for the V1 ...experiement here, and remember there is no magic tube or NOS bliss to be found. You're looking for a match with the sound in your head.

For V4, I went with a NOS RCA 5751. Wow, now that made a world of diff!! (as opposed to the subtle diff of the Mullard in V1). This really did much to sweeten the tone on the rhythm channel. It seems like the reduction in gain (a 5751 is ~70% of an ax7) makes the tone more "round," less edgy, noticibly more smooth overall, especially the upper mids and highs.

Try this, too: a 12AT7 for the PI. What the 5751 did for the ryhthm channel, the at7 does for the whole voice of the amp. I really like what it did to the Lead channel ...less grainy, more creamy OD. I did find that the vol does have to go up, but you're likely not cranked up above 5-6 on the master anyway.

Again, since we've got fundamentally different "core tones" from diff power sections, take my settings and tube suggestions with a grain of salt. But FWIW, the cleans and semi-crunch coming from my DC5 do not leave me wanting in any way

Edward

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Here are my settings:


Channel 1 (Cleans)
Gain: 5
Treble: 6
Mid: 5
Bass: 7
Pres: 6-10
Reverb: 4
Master: 8



Channel 2 (Distortion)
Gain: 7
Treble: 6
Mid: 7
Bass: 6
Pres: 10
Reverb: 1
Master: 3

Output Volume: 3-4



The problem that I'm having is that the Clean channel seems to be much lower in volume than the Lead channel no matter what I do. There doesn't seem to be enough headroom on the Clean channel to get the sound out there.

The tubes are new, but I have not experimented with them yet.

The Clean channel on my DC-5 & DC-10 have much more headroom and sparkle.

 

[disassembled]

Is this the same amp you said that you have done repairs to? Maybe the pre section is bleeding off too much signal because of a bad resistor ( i don't recall the extent of damage which you had).

Is it the preamp that runs out of room or the power amp? Can you run an external pre and get much better clean headroom and volume?



Greg

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I brought it into my shop this morning to look at it.

I repaired the footswitch circuit. The entire power supply and switching circuit was working poorly.


One thing that it might be is the tube sockets. These amps get way hotter than my DC-5 or DC-10. All of the sockets have been cleaned & re-tensioned, but are blackened or browned from use.

I ordered about 20 more from Mesa yesterday.

Once in a while, a Power Tube gets loose and the amp starts ticking. Pretty annoying when you're at a gig. :lol:


I'll try the Clean settings you guys reccomended too. It might be that I just end up using another amp, since I have 2 other DC's, and just use the DC-3 at home.

 

[plumptone]

Here are my settings:


Channel 1 (Cleans)
Gain: 5
Treble: 6
Mid: 5
Bass: 7
Pres: 6-10
Reverb: 4
Master: 8



Channel 2 (Distortion)
Gain: 7
Treble: 6
Mid: 7
Bass: 6
Pres: 10
Reverb: 1
Master: 3

Output Volume: 3-4

Monsta - you're doing basically the same thing I do, with a couple of differences. I use strats and teles with no mods - one strat is a 88 strat plus with the gold lace sensors and the other's a USA deluxe with the stock noiseless p'ups (no S-1 for me either).

First, for the clean channel (especially with the strats), trying turning up the gain to between 6 and 7, that will help a little. I use my clean channel with a compressor up front (MXR), and use it to hit the preamp hard by adding gain. The compression serves to reduce the "bark" you can experience with the clean channel when using compression - and I've found a great balance between that channle and my lead channel with the clean channle master at about 5 or 6. I also prefer to leave the presence in the 4-6 range, but never higher.

My lead settings (and I never use the compressor with the lead channel) are as follows:

Gain: 7.5
Treble: 6
Mid: 4.5
Bass 6.5
Presence: 3.5
Reverb: 0 (i use rack 'verb)
Master: 2.5 - 3

Main master is same as you.

But for me, the key to my lead sound is the EQ, which I tailor for each venue differently, but it's generally a mid scoop very slightly below the center, if not on the center, but with everything else up from center in a smiley face. I get great balance between both channels this way.

Good luck.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Hey thanks for all the help guys, here is what I came up with:


For testing, I removed the chassis and used test jumpers for the speaker & Reverb. This is how I test all amps that come through our shop (provided they need chassis removal).

I tried both Edward's & Rubadub's settings before doing anything else.

I really liked the setting that Rubadub uses. It is very lively and much more touch responsive. This would make sense since he is using a McCarty as well.

This also increased the ballance between the channels. Before, Channel 2 was much louder no matter what I set the Master to. I think this is because I had the EQ & Gain turned up higher and the amp was basically clipping already, before I turned the Master up.



I decided to experiment with tubes. Here is what I tried:
Tubes used:
JJ 12AX7
JJ 12AT7
JJ ECC803
Groove Tubes Mullard Reissue
TAD 12AX7C


V4 JJ 12AX7 for all settings, then I tried these same tubes in V1 with all of the other tubes in V4, 1 at a time
V1 JJ 12AX7 Very responsive and open sounding
V1 JJ 12AT7 Very small sounding, much less volume in Clean channel, about the same volume in the Lead channel
V1 JJ ECC803 Much more lively than the AT7, but not as nice as the AX7
The TAD & Mullard Reissue were both very microphonic in V1 on the Lead channel. They did sound good on the Clean though.


V1 was tried with all of the tubes mentioned above for each of the V4 selections below. Pretty time consuming
V4 JJ 12AX7 Very percussive, punchy and yet sort of dark. Great sustain
V4 JJ 12AT7 Very round sounding with lots of warmth, but lacking in sustain
V4 JJ ECC 803 Sort of the middle of the road between the JJ AT & AX tubes lacked sustain and depth though
V4 Mullard Reissue Very brittle and Marshally sounding. Not as much sustain as the JJ AX7
V4 TAD 12AX7C Absolutely beautiful and full sounding with tons of sustain. The blanket has been lifted from the Clean channel.


Here is the tube config that I ended up with after a few hours of testing:
V1 JJ 12AX7S
V2 EH 12AX7 (love that crunch, JJ 12AX was good here too)
V3 JJ 12AX7S
V4 TAD 12AX7C
V5 JJ 12AX7
V6 JJ 12AX7



I also experimented with each of these tubes in the V6 position. I really liked the Cleans with the JJ 12AT7, but lost all of the love that I have for the Lead channel.

I ended up with the JJ 12AX7 again in V6 because it was the best mixture of all the things that the amp does.

Gotta put it back together now........ :lol:

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I forgot to mention that I used the amp with no pedals, and without the EV Thiele cab that I usually have underneath it.


I tried the original settings that I posted here and it sounded muddy and junky. These were settings that I had put the amp on during our band practice, so I didn't have much time to actually tweak them to taste.



Here are the settings that I decided sounded the best yesterday, without the Thiele, and the band:

Clean channel:
Gain 4
Treble 5.5
Middle 5
Bass 3
Pres 4
Reverb 2
Master 7.5

Lead channel, no EQ:
Gain 7.5
Treble 6.5
Middle 7
Bass 7
Pres 10
Reverb 2
Master 3.5


I'll try it with my band on Wednesday with these settings and see how it sounds.