DC-5 --- How to brighten up the lead tone.

[herrball]

I was wondering if anyone out there has any recommendations on how to brighten up my DC-5 head, specifically the lead channel. ( beyond the GEQ)
I was wondering if some preamp tube swaps and which slots would help.
(there are new 6L6's in the head)

I play strats w/EMGs one VA with SA/SA/58 and one with S/S/S. The head goes into a thiele/1x12 EV. I am also finishing up an open back cab that may add more openness/brightness but still want to address the tone at the source.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks guys....

 

[edward]

Try a 12at7 in the PI (V6). You may also want to experiment with an at7 in the Lead-channel preamp spots (don't recall which ones those are as I have that sheet at home and I am, um, at work now ). Bottom line is that you need to experiment to see if that tone is for you. If you like it, go get yourself NOS Mullard CV4024s ...awesome sounding at7s, IMHO.

All this assumes, though, that all your other tubes are in good shape ...if they are dead, replacing them is your first course of action (like changing old strings before you go swapping pickups). Hope this gives you something to think about.

Edward

 

[tetsubin]

Edward is right, changing strings is the best first advice
I would recommend a Chinese 12ax7 in V1 and a JJ in V2. The JJ in V2 will actually give you more mids which translates to a brighter sound. You could even try three JJs in V1 to V3 -> very mid-crunchy.

 

[herrball]

Thanks for the quick reply guys. I do need to pick up a few new ax7's so this is th eperfect excuse to go to Doug's tube's site.

BTW - what is the diff btwn ax7's and at7's? gain?

gotta get back to work 2. ;-)

 

[tetsubin]

Difference between 12ax7 and 12at7 is simple: the specs. Not just the gain! So using a 12at7 in an amp which is designed for a 12ax7 (like the DC-5) will result in mismatches. Mismatches that won't damage the amp and whose sound you might actually like.

This is the tube layout:
V1a first rhythm
V1b first lead

V2a second lead
V2b third lead

V3a fourth lead
V3b FX return

V4a third rhythm
V4b second rhythm

V5a reverb send
V5b reverb return

V6a&b phase splitter/driver

 

[edward]

Thanks for the quick reply guys. I do need to pick up a few new ax7's so this is th eperfect excuse to go to Doug's tube's site.

BTW - what is the diff btwn ax7's and at7's? gain?

gotta get back to work 2. ;-)

If you think of 12ax7 at 100%, then:
5751 = 70%
12at7 = 60%
12ay7 = 50%

Now these are just rough ballpark figures (not mine) that gives you an idea of how each within the family differs. Keep in mind that there are lots of variables here, and that each "percentage reduction" does not translate to a linear reduction in volume. What does change is tone, touch dynamics, and of course gain for that channel. One tube is "better" than another only by virtue of what you prefer in said tone, dynamics, and gain. None will "hurt" anything.

BTW, just a sidenote on vendors, Dougs' gets a lot of great press. FWIW, Mike at "KCA NOS Tubes" is very knowledgable with amps and tubes, and really does a great job answerig questions to try and achieve "your" tone. No affiliation; just a very satisfied repeat customer.

Edward

 

[Setzer]

My DC-5 was sounding far too dark for my tastes a while ago.

When I first got my amp those dark tones sounded ok to me but that stuff gets old real quick so that dark sound was just not good for me anymore.

On Edwards advice I tried a Mullard CV4024 and it transformed my DC.

I now have a lead tone that is clear,articlulate and defined and not dark anymore,in short its fantastic.

Highly recommend the Mullards and Edwards advice.

 

[edward]

Thanks for the kind words, Setzer. I am glad that helped you. But I am merely the recipient of that at7 advice from one John Phillips from TGP forum. He turned me on to at least trying it, and I liked it so much I experimented with my MKIII and SF-era Fender. So the real credit goes to him!

I ended up doing lots of tube experimenting after that one revelation. I then found out that at7s work/sound great in some slots/amps, but not so good in others; and that ax7s are better in certain spots. The real task is to approach your tone objectively, over a period of time, and let the chips fall where they may (and not because one tube costs more than another). That experimenting process is where I stumbled over the NOS CV4024 tonal gold mine. ...for what my little trials are worth, anyway.

Edward

 

[#2121313]

I know this isn't the "silver bullet" to address your question, but, strings will also help.

Try DR's specifically the HIGH BEAMS:

http://www.drstrings.com/pdf/drstrings_catalog.pdf

DR strings in general are described to be "brighter" than your average string, and the High Beam line are described to be "much brighter" than the standard Tite Fit line of strings offered by DR.

I've been using Ernie Balls for quit some time and recently switched to DR's and I love em!

For $5-6 you can't go wrong in giving em a shot, right?

 

[MJ Slaughter]

What position are you using the Mullard CV4024 in? At $28 a pop I hope you don't say all 6. :shock:

 

[edward]

What position are you using the Mullard CV4024 in? At $28 a pop I hope you don't say all 6. :shock:

OK, let's just say I love em enough to use em
Remember, though, that I experimented one tube at a time, playing extensively (and resting a lot in between) as I swapped ...I did not want to succumb to "gee, it's gotta be good at that price" rationalization. So I DID find that 12ax7s sounded better in some positions. So here goes.

- One of them in my Fender PRII.
- V1, V2, and V4 on my MKIII
- V6 on my DC5 (and a NOS Mullard 12ax7 in V1). But I did elect to save a couple of bucks and used an RCA at7 in the reverb here (V5).

Edward

 

[Setzer]

I have them in my V1,V2 and V4 but I would listen to Edward as he has experimented with them more that I have.

Edward,what advantage did you find to have the 12ax7 in the V1 slot of the DC-5 instead of a CV4024?

I will definately be trying out your arrangement tomorrow.

 

[edward]

...Edward,what advantage did you find to have the 12ax7 in the V1 slot of the DC-5 instead of a CV4024?....

Hi Setzer,

With the at7 in the V1, I just felt like I lost too much in the Lead channel. It was thinner, and I lost some "oomph" and girth (especially around the bottom and lower-mids). It's not like I use a lot of gain in the Lead channel either ...not a metal player but gravitate more toward classic rock and blues-based tone in the Lead channel. But with the at7, it's not so much that I was disappointed in "less" OD saturation as much as the tone and less girth of the OD.

I can't recall that I heard "that" much diff there in the Clean channel ...but not sure about that as the difference in the Lead channel was enough to turn me back to the ax7.

As always, YMMV. That's just mine (and my Strat's) opinion

Edward

 

[cb101]

I just spent most of the afternoon "tube rolling" my DC-5 with all sorts of combinations including the 4024's and some NOS 12ax's and after all was said and done I ended up with the stock Mesa's in V2, V3, V5 and V6. Putting two NOS RCA gray long plates in V1 and V4 changed it to a better tone for me. It opened it up and gave it a little more sparkle.

 

[blacklight_uk]

I've been wondering this for some time. It does get brighter at gig levels but I'd like a little more sparkle and clarity. My preamp tubes have never been changed...ever :shock:

Is it worth my while buying a couple of new preamp tubes and testing them in different positions or is this a rare occasion where i should just grab a whole set new (if such an occasion exists! :? )

 

[cb101]

blacklight_uk:

If you are generally happy with the sound of your DC-5 then your tubes are probably just fine. I have been collecting current production and NOS tubes for some time now and have a variety of tubes amps to try them out on. Some of these tubes are over 50 years old and are still going strong. It's always fun to try our different tubes in different slots to hear the tonal differences. You might want to just pick up a couple of 12ax's and 12at's just to experiment in different slots.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I use a set of Doug's Tubes in my DC-5. Although, I did change V4, which is Clean channel only because the Penta that Doug recommeded made the amp sound terrible on the cleans.

I have currently (all 12AX7's):
V1 Tung-Sol Reissue
V2 JJ High Gain
V3 Penta
V4 Ruby High Gain
V5 Chinese (not much Reverb, so I'll probably swap this out too)
V6 Sovtek 12LPS


A great combo for the DC-5 that I will go back to is:
V1 Ruby High Gain (or Mullard NOS)
V2 JJ High Gain
V3 JJ High Gain
V4 Ruby High Gain or Electro Harmonix (believe it or not, these are where the sparkle is with the DC-5 Cleans)
V5 JJ High Gain
V6 Sovtek 12LPS

I hated the sound of the 12AT7 & ECC803's that I tried. Although they are great tubes, they just seemed to steal all of the beauty of my amp.


I'm currently using properly biased Winged "C" power tubes.