DC-5 Gritty, grainy distortion

[Cossack]

Hello - I recently purchased my first Boogie (apart from my pedal V-Twin), a DC-5 combo. Very pleasantly surprised b the clean channel - I'm enjoying that a lot. Not so much with the dirty side. I like a distorted sound that is smooth, fat, warmish, and sustains all week. To me all I'm getting out of my DC-5 sounds harsh, buzzy, and grainy, like a bunch of bees with power tools were doing the work inside. I gets buzzier and fuzzier as the gain goes up. It's not totally unusable, just unlikable. i've done a lot of messing wit the controls, going to the handbook recommendations, playing with the EQ, cranking it up, etc. It's just unmusical to my ear. I keep getting frustrated and just running my V-Twin through my *gasp* Bugera V-5, which gives me just the smooth, fat sound I described above.

I know this just might be the character of the amp, in which case It'll be up for sale soon. But that's not te impression I get when I hear others talk about their DC-5 tones.
Any thoughts on how to fix it? Tubes? Somebody help before I go hunt down a Carvin X100B to replace it!

 

[boogietone]

Maybe turn the presence down and a possible tube replacement?

 

[Cossack]

Thanks - the presence knob makes no difference in the buzziness. I did try a new set of power tubes (the previous owner put JJs in, but still had the original Mesas, so I tried swapping them back. No noticable difference. But I figured it wasn't power tube issue anyway. So should I try a new set of preamp tubes?

 

[herrball]

I have Svetlana 6L6's for the power tubes and JJ's for preamp. make sure you are using the GEQ for shaping your lead sound. I can get Andy Timmons-type lead sounds out of channel 2. (the Lonestar sound) can't play like him but zeroing in on the tone.
Lead channel: Bass mid treb on about 5, presence 2. GEQ starts left to right going high to low so boosting lows,mids and cutting highs. single 12 open back and a thiele. EV's in both . Hope it helps.

 

[Sixstringpsycho]

try these setting
Gain - 6
Treb - 7
Mid - 5.5
Bass- 2
pres - 2
reverb - 0
master - 3
output - 3

if its still buzzy it needs some tubes IMO. I get a warm sound from mine with these settings. I never heard a buzzy complaint normally people do not like how dark the lead channel can be.

 

[edward]

Hi Cossack,

I did not care for the graininess of my DC's OD tone, either. But addressed it with tubes ...that was long ago and my DC5 now has become my #1 go-to live amp, not to mention my "take to the grave" amp

Do a search on tubes for this amp. FWIW, the bottom line is I replaced the power tubes, but the most significant changes came in the way of replacing the preamp tubes (through considerable experimentation). I derived a recipe that really works for me: smooth cleans that clip nicely, creamy OD without the graininess, and lovely top end that is crisp without the "bite" or brittle nature of sharp highs. Lots depends on your music style and personal preferences, of course, but it may be worth it to you to try

Edward

 

[boogietone]

Thanks - the presence knob makes no difference in the buzziness. I did try a new set of power tubes (the previous owner put JJs in, but still had the original Mesas, so I tried swapping them back. No noticable difference. But I figured it wasn't power tube issue anyway. So should I try a new set of preamp tubes?

Yup. I should have been more specific. I meant the preamp tubes. My DC-5 sounds killer!
I had a problem with it at first. Thought I made a mistake. Even bought another amp to
replace it. Now I love that **** thing. The new amp I bought will be going on the block
here soon. Keep working with it Cossack. It'll come around.

 

[Cossack]

Thanks, guys.
Tried your settings, Sixstringpsycho. Less worse than some others, but still harsh, not very warm.

Playing around with the pre-tubes, just using what I have laying around (not much) to see if I can get any ideas.

I have a 12au7 sitting here - would that be dumb to stick in somewhere?

Edward, I'd be very interested if you'd like to share your "recipe" - what you describe sounds very much to my taste. At the very least, it might give me a good place to start.

Ironically, when I bought this amp, I was concerned about the cleans. I thought "It's a boogie, so of course it's going to be great distorted, but will it mate with my Telecaster and give me bright and shimmery?" It likes my Tele just fine, and I can, as you all know, get wonderful cleans. But with humbuckers and dirt, I'm really unsatisfied.

I'm gonna give this amp a proper chance - I resisted and watched an X100B go by for $300 on ebay last night . . . FWIW, there's another great (and versatile) amp.

 

[Cossack]

I'm finding a mix of preamp tunes in here - (JJ, GE) could this just be a case of poorly matched tubes resulting in a arsh and unfocused sound?
The 12au7 in V3 resulted in (surprise!) lower gain, not much else

 

[Old BF Shred]

I have a 12au7 sitting here - would that be dumb to stick in somewhere?
I resisted and watched an X100B go by for $300 on ebay last night . . . FWIW, there's another great (and versatile) amp.

The 12au7 is a fraction of the gain of a 12ax7, but won't hurt a thing. Just not gonna be much gain. :|

If you want to lower gain a little bit (mind you, I can't say that will help your specific issue) a 12at7 is the next one down from a 12ax7. Good luck with that. I will say preamp tubes can make a big difference, and for the first 2 (V1 & V2) positions, in my amps, I do not use Mesa tubes. I use vintage old stock (VOS) and the standard JJ 12ax7.
YMMV, so you'll have to experiment some.

Also I once had a X100B and am sorry I sold it, but I'll take my Mesa's anyday! :wink:

Good luck!

 

[Cossack]

i yanked the tubes out of my V-Twin (12at7 and 12ax7 - don't they normally have 2x12ax7? never peeked in mine before!) and stuck them in V2 and V3 in the DC-5. For the heck of it, put the 12ax7 from my bugera in V1. Seems to be a an improvement, so I think we're on to something here.

Still not as smooth as the V-Twin through either the Bugera or my little Crate Vintage Club 20.

I found this set on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380019608435&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Maybe I'll jump on it, although I'm anxious to hear Edward's successful setup.

 

[Old BF Shred]

Just be carful and read the fine print:
"NOTE: I HAVE MANY SETS OF THESE TUBES AND THE ONES YOU RECEIVE MAY NOT BE IN THE SAME BOXES OR BE THE MANUFACTURERS AS ILLUSTRATED BUT THEY HAVE ALL BEEN TESTED TO HIGHEST STANDARDS AND YOUR SATISFACTION IS GUARANTEED".

Be sure you know what you are getting....may end up worse than when you started! :roll:
I've never heard of this guy and there are other places with a known reputation in this business that will stand behind what they sell you. Buyer beware! :wink:

Good luck!

 

[Cossack]

Hmmm...sounds pretty good through the headphone jack. First amp I've ever played that sounded better through headphones!
Makes for a rather cumbersome headphone amp, though, if you ask me! :roll:

And thanks for the heads up, Old BF Sred!

 

[edward]

Hi Cossack,

Here is my secret recipe

V1 Mullard NOS 12ax7
V2: TungSol (ReIssue) 12ax7
V3: TungSol (ReIssue) 12ax7
V4: RCA NOS 5751
V5: Mullard NOS CV4024 (it's a 12at7)
V6: Mullard NOS CV4024 (it's a 12at7)

PwrTubes: Svet Winged-C

There you go. Keep in mind you do NOT have to go to NOS tubes ...I did because I am a freak, but also waited for the opportunity to score NOS ones at a good price. But I did all my experimenting before I got the NOS tubes since that route is cheaper, by far. A superb currect-production 12ax7 tube (IMHO) is the TungSol ReIssue ...these sound better than the Mesa tubes IMHO; smoother top end, and are really affordable. I A/B'd the Mesa and the TS ax7 tubes back and forth and found the mesa ones had a "harder" more brittle top end that made highs harsh and ice-picky. The TS ones are smooth and glassy in the treble ...much nicer, and cheap to boot!

But if I may also suggest, the NOS Mullard CV4024 (which is a 12at7) really IS worth the dough, and they are no where near as expensive as NOS ax7s ...these are worth it, IMHO.

The single biggest difference you will hear is in the V6 swap: the PI tube. This gains the entire amp down and really does a lot to make the OD creamy and smooth.

For the Rhythm channel, I wanted even more smooth treble with glassy sparkle, but not brassy. The PI swap helped get me close. I found a 5751 got me where I wanted to be. Keep in mind I NEVER play spanky clean and my "cleans" always have a bit (or more) of hair around the edges, so this swap may not be for you. But man my Clean channel is so round and sparkly, with clean bottom and crisp sparkle up top, I love it ...this is my "love" channel and play mostly here.

The V5 swap is really subtle, but I like the reverb a bit better gained down to an at7. If you are a heavier reverb user, you may just want to stick with an ax7.

Download the Mesa Manual for the DC5 so you know what each tube position does ...this will guide you in how to experiment, otherwise you're flying blind. Keep in mind, though, that each tube swap affects the later position. So a swap in V1 will affect V2-6. Or if you want to monkey around with only the Lead channel, then play with V2 and V3, in concert with V6 and V1. And give yourself LOTS of breaks as ear fatigue sets in very quickly. FWIW, I took many days and "lived with" a given tone that I liked for a while ...to see if I truly liked it or of I was just getting tired or complacent. In other words, there are no shortcuts here: go slow and methodical. Patience pays dividends. And remember, there is no "correct" tube here as you are simply searching for what flavor suits you best. Hope this gives you something to think about

Edward

 

[Setzer]

Hi Cossack,

I was unhappy with my DC5 lead tone as I found it too dark and fuzzy.

I took advice from Edward and my amp is right where I want it to be(loved the Mullard CV4024 especially) so be patient and take Edwards advice and I am pretty sure you will be a LOT closer to where you want to be with your amp tone.

 

[Cossack]

Ordering tubes . . . will hold Edward personally responsible if the result is not exactly to my personal taste. :wink:

Interesting side note - we have on old, long dead radio that my wife had before we married - from the fifties at the latest. Giant wooden thing, beautiful. Just stands in the corner looking pretty. Don't know why I never looked before, but I pulled out two old RCA 6F6 tubes. Read a little bit about them, saw that they're evidently similar to 6V6s. You see where this is going I only have so much self control, so I flipped the switch by the power tubes to the 6V6 side and slid these relics in. They worked fine, alhough a little hot- so I didn't leave them in long. But nice - very clear on the clean side. Didn't help my problem on the other side. May have been dumb of me to do, but it was neat

 

[ochrisl]

I found the lead channel to nasty sounding when I turned the gain past 4 or 5. I found using low gain tubes like 5751 really cleaned it up.

 

[Cossack]

Uh, oh. Itchy trigger finger. Bought an X100B for 275 clams on ebay. But my new tubes will get here first. I'll let the two brutes argue with each other for a while, and see which one sits and which keeps getting played.

 

[thurston]

Have the tubes come in yet? Any update?

 

[Cossack]

Tubes got in over a week ago, I got home a day ago. Put in:
V1: Mullard ax7
V2:Tung-Sol ax7
V3:Tung-Sol ax7
V4:Mullard 5751
V5:RCA at7
V6:Boogie at7
Power: Boogie 6L6 (didn't buy new 6L6s as I've already got two sets around - these and the JJs)

It's an improvement. The clean is still very nice (although having a hard time staying ahead of my Crate VC20). The drive channel is now less harsh and more usable. I've messed around with a a bit and will continue to look for a sweet spot or two, but as of now I would rate it as serviceable but uninspiring. It's got time to grow on me, 'cause the X100B won't be here for a couple weeks at least. (Ebayed it, but it was conveniently being sold right down the street from my brother's work in California. I decided to save the $60 shipping and wait until he's up visiting.)