CLEANING UP MY SOUND

[MiSeRY]

It's been awhile since I posted on here and it has taken me a bit to get some cash together but I am now moving forward on addressing some of the sound issues I have been having for months now. I have a 2 Channel Dual Rec w/ Original Mesa tubes, a Mesa Traditional (oversized) 4x12 with Vintage 30's and a PRS CE22 with stock pickups.

My band plays loud and heavy, post-punk/hardcore. Basically, I'm looking for the tightest, punchiest sound I can get...I don't want ANY breakup at all. Whenever I do heavy, Drop-D palm muting, I get this underlying farting sound from the cab that I or anyone else has not been able to diagnose. If I back the bass off anymore...there's just not enough bass hitting. Late last week, I ordered two Celestion G12-75T speakers and plan on doing an "X" config in the cab, similar to an Uberkab. A rep at one of my local stores said that rather than buy an Uberkab, which has lots better bottom end and will "knock you down", from what I've heard others say...that I should just take out two of those V30's, replace them with the G12's and I would be good to go. None of my tubes are microphonic at all and may well need to be retubed, which I am doing with JJ's in the next week. Also, I have played with a Les Paul Custom and an SG Standard, both with EMG 85's and 81's and I still get that farty sound. Most people wouldn't notice it...but I do and so do other guitarist friends of mine. My one friend says to drop the Recto and get a Mark IV.....any thoughts? I realize this is a huge post but any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Platypus]

First of all, a power tube replacement is PARAMOUNT if you're using original tubes....

Address this first as symptoms of failing or worn out power tubes are loss of definition in the bass, farty/muddy tone. Secondly, you're using Dragon II's in your CE22? The Dragon II bridge pickup 'sucks' for the type of music you're playing, not to say it's a bad pickup, but use the right tool for the right job.

The Mark IV is a very VERY different sound than the recto. The recto is a midscooped rhythm machine capable of huge sounding chords. The MarkIV is a midfocused amp with way tighter tracking on the notes so if you play fast tight riffs you might benefit from a Mark. The recto is great at the style of music you're talking about (palm muted detuned chords) but then you go on to say you want tight/punchy.. something the recto has to be teased into doing for you in my opinion.

Personally if it were me, fix the easy stuff first before you go replacing speakers and what not. An amp as old as yours with original tubes is almost certainly the exact cause for your problems. Your preamp tubes don't really need to be replaced unless you're looking for a different tone.. but your power tubes most definetly need a refreshing.

 

[Platypus]

One more thing... when you say 'no breakup at all,' are you saying that you play completely clean? No distortion? Or do you mean breakup as in 'not retaining focus'?

 

[Elpelotero]

i second getting a mark4....of course, this post comes literally 5 minutes after the first time i ever blasted my mark2c+ really really loud...so there's a huge smile on my face!

you have all the factors showing you want a tight sound--prs, gibson with emg's, a good ear (you notice the lack of punch when you back down the bass on a recto)...

if a 2channel rec, which is tighter than the 3ch recs, doesn't give you your sound....then you need a mark4

 

[Platypus]

i second getting a mark4....of course, this post comes literally 5 minutes after the first time i ever blasted my mark2c+ really really loud...so there's a huge smile on my face!

you have all the factors showing you want a tight sound--prs, gibson with emg's, a good ear (you notice the lack of punch when you back down the bass on a recto)...

if a 2channel rec, which is tighter than the 3ch recs, doesn't give you your sound....then you need a mark4

I would agree with this but I'm curious if a retube will help him out first. His amp is over 10 years old with original tubes.. probably sounds like junk compared to a fresh set.

This is coming from someone who just sold his Dual Rec for a MarkIV (couldn't be happier)

 

[Russ]

Yeah, get a Mark IV

 

[siggy14]

That cab should not be farting out, more then likley you are suffering from bad tubes like everyone else has mentioned. Also check to make sure all the screws are in your cab tight and all are there.

OK i have both a uber cab and a traditional recto cab sitting next to each other. They both have the same bass response and both sound killer.

At this point i took the two v30s out of the uber and replaced them with two more 75's so i could have an all 75 cab and my recto cab is all V30's. I use the bogner cab with 75's for my XTC and the recto cab with V30's with my recto.

Honestly, I wouldnt put two 75's in your recto cab, the recto amp is already mid scooped and so are 75's, that is the reason mesa paired the rec's up with the V30's, makes up for some of the scoop the amp has.

As to a Mark IV. great amp, but i do not think it will get you what you want. Keep your dual rec, do a full retube, make sure you are on solid state rectification, keep gain around 2pm and throw a boost pedal in front and you will be in great shape!

 

[turmoil]

i would definetly retube the amp first...at least the power tubes.

i would also recommend running an overdrive pedal in front of the amp. this helps tighten things up a ton. something like a maxon OD808, ibanez TS9, etc.

 

[disassembled]

Put some KT88's in there and you should be good in the low end department! What are you bass and gain settings?

Greg

 

[MiSeRY]

One more thing... when you say 'no breakup at all,' are you saying that you play completely clean? No distortion? Or do you mean breakup as in 'not retaining focus'?

When speaking of no breakup, I mean when I mute on an open, Drop D power chord...that the bottom end is solid with no sag at all. V30's just seem to not handle the type of sound I'm looking for. maybe my settings are just all wrong but we have spent hours trying to tune in different things. is there some settings any of you guys would suggest for this type of music?

 

[MiSeRY]

i second getting a mark4....of course, this post comes literally 5 minutes after the first time i ever blasted my mark2c+ really really loud...so there's a huge smile on my face!

you have all the factors showing you want a tight sound--prs, gibson with emg's, a good ear (you notice the lack of punch when you back down the bass on a recto)...

if a 2channel rec, which is tighter than the 3ch recs, doesn't give you your sound....then you need a mark4

I would agree with this but I'm curious if a retube will help him out first. His amp is over 10 years old with original tubes.. probably sounds like junk compared to a fresh set.

This is coming from someone who just sold his Dual Rec for a MarkIV (couldn't be happier)

let me be more specific...they are not the original tubes that came with the amp. the ARE Mesa tubes but I have no idea when they were last replaced. I play and gig A LOT and I know in the 2 years I have owned this amp that it has not been retubed.

thx

 

[Platypus]

One more thing... when you say 'no breakup at all,' are you saying that you play completely clean? No distortion? Or do you mean breakup as in 'not retaining focus'?

When speaking of no breakup, I mean when I mute on an open, Drop D power chord...that the bottom end is solid with no sag at all. V30's just seem to not handle the type of sound I'm looking for. maybe my settings are just all wrong but we have spent hours trying to tune in different things. is there some settings any of you guys would suggest for this type of music?

The V30 is more than capable of that sound. Try using the diode rectifier if you want tighter tracking. I'm telling you though man, get those power tubes replaced first.

 

[Platypus]

i second getting a mark4....of course, this post comes literally 5 minutes after the first time i ever blasted my mark2c+ really really loud...so there's a huge smile on my face!

you have all the factors showing you want a tight sound--prs, gibson with emg's, a good ear (you notice the lack of punch when you back down the bass on a recto)...

if a 2channel rec, which is tighter than the 3ch recs, doesn't give you your sound....then you need a mark4

I would agree with this but I'm curious if a retube will help him out first. His amp is over 10 years old with original tubes.. probably sounds like junk compared to a fresh set.

This is coming from someone who just sold his Dual Rec for a MarkIV (couldn't be happier)

let me be more specific...they are not the original tubes that came with the amp. the ARE Mesa tubes but I have no idea when they were last replaced. I play and gig A LOT and I know in the 2 years I have owned this amp that it has not been retubed.

thx

I see... ok at least they're not as old as we thought, but still after 2 years of heavy gigging you're gonna destroy a set of power tubes. Has the amp always been this way or just recently?

 

[MiSeRY]

Put some KT88's in there and you should be good in the low end department! What are you bass and gain settings?

Greg

well, i have changed it up a lot since trying to do some tweaking lately. i am admittedly a guitar PLAYER and not very good or patient when it comes to a mystery like the RECTO. i know these amps are great, but after having it for two years, i still have not found the magic sound that i'm looking for. typically the bass is around 10:00-12:00...gain right now is around 11:00-12:00, though it's not as high as i like, but any higher on the gain and it sounds like sizzled ***.

thx

 

[MiSeRY]

I would agree with this but I'm curious if a retube will help him out first. His amp is over 10 years old with original tubes.. probably sounds like junk compared to a fresh set.

This is coming from someone who just sold his Dual Rec for a MarkIV (couldn't be happier)

let me be more specific...they are not the original tubes that came with the amp. the ARE Mesa tubes but I have no idea when they were last replaced. I play and gig A LOT and I know in the 2 years I have owned this amp that it has not been retubed.

thx

I see... ok at least they're not as old as we thought, but still after 2 years of heavy gigging you're gonna destroy a set of power tubes. Has the amp always been this way or just recently?

well, it was never fantastic sounding with my PRS. i got a lot of compliments on it's live sound, but I never thought it was that great. It may not have sounded that bad when I first bought it off the guy, but I never remember being blown away.

 

[Platypus]

Are you using the Dragon II set in your PRS?

Are you using the FX loop or do you have it switched out?

Post your settings for second channel.

 

[siggy14]

Here are my settings and I get a nice tight sound.
effects loop off
Master maxed
Channel master to room size etc..
Bass 12PM
Mid 2PM
Treble 2PM
Gain around 2PM
Presense around 10AM
Switched to modern
Silcone diodes.
Ibanez TS9 Reissue, tone set to liking, level on high, OD all the way off.

 

[MiSeRY]

Are you using the Dragon II set in your PRS?

Are you using the FX loop or do you have it switched out?

Post your settings for second channel.

If that is what comes stock in the PRS CE Standard 22, then that's what I have. Seems that when playing open the guitar doesn't sound too bad with those pickups but it suffers with the low end. Like I said though, even with pickups as hot as EMG's....I still get the noise (which now it seems may be a result of old tubes).

I have gone back and forth between FX loop and no FX loop, just trying to make a difference. As of today, I am not using the FX loop.

MAIN - 10:30
PRESENCE - 7:00
BASS - 10:00
MID - 12:00
TREBLE - 2:00
GAIN - 11:00

 

[MiSeRY]

Here are my settings and I get a nice tight sound.
effects loop off
Master maxed
Channel master to room size etc..
Bass 12PM
Mid 2PM
Treble 2PM
Gain around 2PM
Presense around 10AM
Switched to modern
Silcone diodes.
Ibanez TS9 Reissue, tone set to liking, level on high, OD all the way off.

do you use this pedal in front of the amp or through the loop? how do you differentiate AM and PM when dialing in your levels?

thx

 

[RoCk4souls]

in addition to replacing the power tubes check the inner support of your cab.

take off one of the handles and inside you'll see a board that connects horizontally to the back panel and the speaker baffle board. mesa glues these supports to the back panel and after some hard playing they can come loose and sound just like a speaker farting out, especially with a lot of bass and volume. it may need reglueing.

my cab did this and it took me forever to figure out what was causing it.

hope this helps.