Celebrating my first Mesa amp! F-30!

[kewlpack]

Hello all - just got on board today...

I picked up an F-30 a little over a week ago and have simply been blown away with the quality of tone the thing delivers - it's really fantastic. I'm sure I'm in the honeymoon phase with it - but wow. Why didn't I choose one of these sooner?!

I've been doing the MFX thing for a few years now and tried countless low/mid range amps (tube, ss, modeling). So far this F-30 is the cat's meow!

I do have a couple of questions...

1) Is there a dramatic difference in the quality of tone between the F-30 and F-50?? I see a lot of people raving about the F-50. I chose the F-30 because it's very portable, has amazing tone (duh), and doesn't have to be cranked up to sound good. I'll be using it mostly in smaller open jam situations. Would the F-50 bring that much more to the table??

2) What's the best way to achieve post preamp volume control functionality? This is the first amp I've owned that has a parallel FX Loop. I'd like to make use of my ToneLab SE (TLSE) in the loop (FX only), and control the amp's output volume via the TLSE in the loop (expression pedal, etc.). The parallel signal from the preamp comes through full blast though. I don't want to put a volume pedal up front because that kinda kills the preamp tone (and my guitar volume pot can handle up front volume fine). What's the best practice for this?

FWIW, running the TLSE MFX into the FX Loop and bypassing the F-30 preamp also works great - but I'd like to reap the benefits of the REAL preamp. The F-30's poweramp section is fantastic (IMHO). Really livens up everything.

I'm all ears!

 

[andershoeg]

Hi kewlpack, and congrats on your new f30! Got one myself (combo-version), and absolutely loves it! Just like you
To your first question; there is no quality-difference in tone between the f30 and f50. That said, they are two different animals, though for sure in the same family. There is a lot of raving about the f50.........but there is also a lot of raving about the f30! 8) I don't think the f50 will give you "more" if it is smaller open jam situations you are talking about. I think you made the right choice. And those EL84 tubes are fantastic sounding Dynamic and dirty :twisted:
Well, I think you need to go HERE: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=885856
The best thread about the f-series ever! There is something in that thread about a volume trick in the loop. Well, hal9000 also post in here (his trick), so maybe he will chime in. But check out the mentioned thread. Full of good info!
B.r. andershoeg

 

[hal9000]

Hello all - just got on board today...
<snip>
I do have a couple of questions...

1) Is there a dramatic difference in the quality of tone between the F-30 and F-50?? <snip> Would the F-50 bring that much more to the table??

2) What's the best way to achieve post preamp volume control functionality? This is the first amp I've owned that has a parallel FX Loop. I'd like to make use of my ToneLab SE (TLSE) in the loop (FX only), and control the amp's output volume via the TLSE in the loop (expression pedal, etc.). The parallel signal from the preamp comes through full blast though. I don't want to put a volume pedal up front because that kinda kills the preamp tone (and my guitar volume pot can handle up front volume fine). What's the best practice for this?

I'm all ears!

Kewlpack, congrats on the F-30! Mmm... there's nothing quite like bringing a new one home.

To answer your questions:
1) The F-50 is only better if you think it is. I personally prefer the deep low end and glassy highs of my F-100 compared to an F-30, but I love EL-84 amps as well. If Mesa made a F-30 2x12 combo , that would be ridiculously sweet. I'd actually like to have an F-30 head to play along with my F-100.

2) I have a couple of tricks up my sleeve for volume control. First, almost any volume pedal or FX device in the loop will give you good overall control of output level. My rig is based around a G-Major which gives me good overall volume control and switches the channels on my F-100. The FX Mix pot should be all the way up to 90%.

If you're not using anything in the loop, you can also employ the FX Mix pot as a final master:

To test the trick above, gather two unused 1/4" guitar cables. Plug one into the FX send jack and nothing else. Plug the other cable into the FX return jack. The other end of this cable needs to have the Tip and Sleeve connected which you can do with some aluminum foil and a rubber band. I've also used an alligator clip which worked great. To take advantage of the new master volume, I adjust my channel 2 master to about 10:00 (11:00 for clean) and the bring down the FX Mix pot until I get the right output level.

If you want to use the TSLE in the loop, just turn up the FX mix pot all the way, and the TLSE's volume pedal will control the amp's volume as well. In addition, if you wanted to use the TSLE to also change channels on your F-30, you'd need an Axess Electronics CFX4 or equivalent and cable which is MIDI controlled.

 

[kewlpack]

2) I have a couple of tricks up my sleeve for volume control. First, almost any volume pedal or FX device in the loop will give you good overall control of output level. My rig is based around a G-Major which gives me good overall volume control and switches the channels on my F-100. The FX Mix pot should be all the way up to 90%.

If you're not using anything in the loop, you can also employ the FX Mix pot as a final master:

...

To test the trick above, gather two unused 1/4" guitar cables. Plug one into the FX send jack and nothing else. Plug the other cable into the FX return jack. The other end of this cable needs to have the Tip and Sleeve connected which you can do with some aluminum foil and a rubber band. I've also used an alligator clip which worked great. To take advantage of the new master volume, I adjust my channel 2 master to about 10:00 (11:00 for clean) and the bring down the FX Mix pot until I get the right output level.

If you want to use the TSLE in the loop, just turn up the FX mix pot all the way, and the TLSE's volume pedal will control the amp's volume as well.

I did try the TLSE in the Loop with the F-30 mix dimed. However the volume pedal only controlled the level of the TLSE effects volume - not the actual volume. I take it I'd need to do the 1/4" cable mod for it to work right - correct? I don't have any way to solder - and I'd probably end up ruining the cable anyway (not a skilled solderer). Can you explain the alligator clip or foil approach (perhaps a small photo of what I'm trying to do)?

Electronic twiddling is not my forte!

Thanks for the amazing thread at HC, Hal.

 

[hal9000]

2) I have a couple of tricks up my sleeve for volume control. First, almost any volume pedal or FX device in the loop will give you good overall control of output level. My rig is based around a G-Major which gives me good overall volume control and switches the channels on my F-100. The FX Mix pot should be all the way up to 90%.

If you're not using anything in the loop, you can also employ the FX Mix pot as a final master:

...

To test the trick above, gather two unused 1/4" guitar cables. Plug one into the FX send jack and nothing else. Plug the other cable into the FX return jack. The other end of this cable needs to have the Tip and Sleeve connected which you can do with some aluminum foil and a rubber band. I've also used an alligator clip which worked great. To take advantage of the new master volume, I adjust my channel 2 master to about 10:00 (11:00 for clean) and the bring down the FX Mix pot until I get the right output level.

If you want to use the TSLE in the loop, just turn up the FX mix pot all the way, and the TLSE's volume pedal will control the amp's volume as well.

I did try the TLSE in the Loop with the F-30 mix dimed. However the volume pedal only controlled the level of the TLSE effects volume - not the actual volume. I take it I'd need to do the 1/4" cable mod for it to work right - correct? I don't have any way to solder - and I'd probably end up ruining the cable anyway (not a skilled solderer). Can you explain the alligator clip or foil approach (perhaps a small photo of what I'm trying to do)?

Electronic twiddling is not my forte!

Thanks for the amazing thread at HC, Hal.

You can only use the FX Mix mod when there is nothing else in the loop, so it's not going to work with your TSLE in there.

Perhaps there is a setting in the TSLE that will allow you to control overall volume rather than FX mix?

To test out the FX Mix pot mod:
On the FX return cable's end that's not in the jack, wrap aluminum foil around both the tip and sleeve and secure with a rubber band. If you did it right, the FX mix pot will now control the amp's overall volume. Again, this is only for use with nothing in the loop.

 

[kewlpack]

You can only use the FX Mix mod when there is nothing else in the loop, so it's not going to work with your TSLE in there.

Ah - from your first post, I was under the impression that I could use a volume pedal or any other expression pedal in the FX Loop to control overall volume (with your little trick). So am I stuck with no way to control overall volume if I have a delay (or whatever) in the FX Loop??

Perhaps there is a setting in the TSLE that will allow you to control overall volume rather than FX mix?

The default behavior of the TLSE's first expression pedal controls overall volume - sorry I didn't mention that originally. There is no output if you set the pedal toe-up.

To test out the FX Mix pot mod:
On the FX return cable's end that's not in the jack, wrap aluminum foil around both the tip and sleeve and secure with a rubber band. If you did it right, the FX mix pot will now control the amp's overall volume. Again, this is only for use with nothing in the loop.

Gotcha.

So how are you using the G-Major to control overall volume with the FX Loop still running parallel? With the amp's Mix pot at full, you're still getting the dry amp signal coming through - no?

Bear with me - trying to learn as much as I can!

 

[hal9000]

You can only use the FX Mix mod when there is nothing else in the loop, so it's not going to work with your TSLE in there.

Ah - from your first post, I was under the impression that I could use a volume pedal or any other expression pedal in the FX Loop to control overall volume (with your little trick). So am I stuck with no way to control overall volume if I have a delay (or whatever) in the FX Loop??

Perhaps there is a setting in the TSLE that will allow you to control overall volume rather than FX mix?

The default behavior of the TLSE's first expression pedal controls overall volume - sorry I didn't mention that originally. There is no output if you set the pedal toe-up.

To test out the FX Mix pot mod:
On the FX return cable's end that's not in the jack, wrap aluminum foil around both the tip and sleeve and secure with a rubber band. If you did it right, the FX mix pot will now control the amp's overall volume. Again, this is only for use with nothing in the loop.

Gotcha.

So how are you using the G-Major to control overall volume with the FX Loop still running parallel? With the amp's Mix pot at full, you're still getting the dry amp signal coming through - no?

Bear with me - trying to learn as much as I can!

Sorry I was unclear. You can use a volume pedal in the loop after the TSLE if you want, but it already has the capability to control volume with one of the EXP pedals as you stated.

Since the parallel loop goes to 90%, you're only getting a small amount of signal through (10%) dry which you can't hear unless the loop is fully attenuated. So, my G-Major just cuts the overall level as if the loop was serial. Your TSLE should do the same.

 

[kewlpack]

Since the parallel loop goes to 90%, you're only getting a small amount of signal through (10%) dry which you can't hear unless the loop is fully attenuated. So, my G-Major just cuts the overall level as if the loop was serial. Your TSLE should do the same.

Okay - and I shouldn't need the foil trick to achieve this - right?

I'll have to go back and try hooking it all back up again. I tried it the other day and the overall volume didn't seem to drop much (if at all) at toe-up.

At least you've confirmed I was connecting things properly - I thought I'd missed something somewhere.

Thanks for your time.

 

[hal9000]

Since the parallel loop goes to 90%, you're only getting a small amount of signal through (10%) dry which you can't hear unless the loop is fully attenuated. So, my G-Major just cuts the overall level as if the loop was serial. Your TSLE should do the same.

Okay - and I shouldn't need the foil trick to achieve this - right?

I'll have to go back and try hooking it all back up again. I tried it the other day and the overall volume didn't seem to drop much (if at all) at toe-up.

At least you've confirmed I was connecting things properly - I thought I'd missed something somewhere.

Thanks for your time.

No, you don't need the FX mix mod.

The volume change has to either be governed by the FX Mix pot or the TSLE. FX Mix should be at 90%.

 

[kewlpack]

Got it working. I'm not sure what I had messed up with the first attempt. :?

But it's working supa-fine now!

 

[ashjn]

Thats interesting. I never got a multi effects to work well with the F-Series. They are great amps, and definitily blow the modelers out of the water!

 

[kewlpack]

The trick is to run the MFX straight into the F's FX Loop Return with Mix @ 100%.

It essentially becomes a very nice little all tube poweramp/cabinet for the MFX (acting as a preamp).

 

[ashjn]

But then you give up the F-Series preamp section...

 

[kewlpack]

Options, my good man... options.

 

[hal9000]

Got it working. I'm not sure what I had messed up with the first attempt. :?

But it's working supa-fine now!

Sweet! BTW, did you use a dummy cable in the FX send jack? If not, make sure to do that because when I ran my PODxt Live through my F-100's FX return, it sounded like a blanket until I put a cable in the send jack.

 

[hal9000]

But then you give up the F-Series preamp section...

You don't necessarily have to, it's just a question of setup. If you use an A/B box and a stereo splitter, you could easily integrate a modeler into your rig AND still use the F-series preamp. Or, you could go completely nuts, and bust out a full MIDI rig like this:

In the GRX4 case, you can use the modeler by itself into the FX Return, the F-series by itself with the modeler's loop disabled, or even the modeler as an FX processor should you so choose. Lots of the pros have a setup like this that allows them to switch in/out their pedals automatically.

 

[kewlpack]

Sweet! BTW, did you use a dummy cable in the FX send jack? If not, make sure to do that because when I ran my PODxt Live through my F-100's FX return, it sounded like a blanket until I put a cable in the send jack.

Ohhhh... nope. I did not try that yet. Just a loose patch cable will work? What does it engage on the FX Loop that would make a difference???

 

[hal9000]

Sweet! BTW, did you use a dummy cable in the FX send jack? If not, make sure to do that because when I ran my PODxt Live through my F-100's FX return, it sounded like a blanket until I put a cable in the send jack.

Ohhhh... nope. I did not try that yet. Just a loose patch cable will work? What does it engage on the FX Loop that would make a difference???

The FX send jack is a special switching style that connects to the FX return's center pin when nothing is in the loop. If you run something into the FX return without a plug in the FX send, you'll have a funky input impedance and sensitivity. All you need is the mechanical insertion of a 1/4" plug into the FX send jack to break the link, so any 1/4" cable, plug, etc. will work. If you use a cable, leave the other end dangling.

 

[kewlpack]

All you need is the mechanical insertion of a 1/4" plug into the FX send jack to break the link, so any 1/4" cable, plug, etc. will work. If you use a cable, leave the other end dangling.

Excellent! I have an extra 1/8"-to-1/4" converter tip I can use.

 

[kewlpack]

A little update. Just finished a Friday Night Jam with the new F-30 and TLSE.

I plugged in the little 1/4" jack (per hal's suggestion) and it did seem to let more high frequency signal through... sounded more open. I had to retweak my patches quite a bit.

It sounded pretty good, but I was having to tweak on the fly a little (just ran out of time so I couldn't get all set up before the jam).

Then about half way through the jammin', remembering what ashjn said about using the amp's own voice ( ), I decided I'd just go dry with the F-30. Nothin' extra - just pure combo amp. Opened it up just a little...and...

HOLY COW! :shock:

Playing an American HSS/S-1 Strat, and it just SANG through the F-30. So much tone without even trying hard. 8) I have a new best friend!

I think I'm gonna relegate the TLSE to Delay/Modulation/Reverb duties in the FX Loop and just go ALL BOOGIE for my core tone. Wow... that was so much fun. Rich, Sweet, Robust... what else could you ask for?!