cable questions

[rispsira]

Ok guys i have been posting at huge racks inc and been having a lot of useful info but thought would ask for your opinion as well.

I am looking for a high quality bulk cable (transparent, non colouring blabla not necesarily brighter) to make custom lengths to connect my guitar rack gear and heads etc(so that it can be neat and not a spaghetti rack! that picks up noise)

So far i have been using monster. But have been considering a mogami bulk cable.

I was advised to get the 2524.

Another post said: "You might consider Mogami 2549 or 2791 wired with one conductor positive, the other negative and shield floated on one end" (which unfortunatelly i didnt understand because all i know about cables is how to plug them :?

On a website i saw another mogami unbalanced bulk cable with the model 2497

Im kinda confused :?
What do you guys think/advise??

 

[mr_fender]

Spaghetti... mmmmmmm....

When I bought my old Triaxis rack rig on ebay, they previous owner had rolled up 10 foot instrument cables connecting each rack unit. I ended up selling 6 different 10 foot cables and replacing them with a few 6 inch and 1 foot patch cables.

check out http://www.guitar-cable.com

They have great prices and quality cables too. I built all my cables with their CA-0393 bulk cable. It's the same specs as Mogami 2524 and it's only $0.38 per foot. It's got a good quality durable jacket and is shielded very well too. I don't notice any noise or tone loss at all. I've been very satisfied with their stuff.

Those **** connectors is where it gets expensive. Good quality 1/4" plugs don't come cheap.

As far as using balanced cables, they will work fine but will cost more. When wiring them up for non-balanced use, people typically use one of the conductors for the hot and the other for ground. Just make sure you connect the outer shield to the ground conductor on only one side of the cable (i.e. leave the other end "floating"). If you solder them together on both ends, you will create a ground loop between the second condutor and the shield and the cable could pickup all kind of noise and interference. To me, if your not using TRS plugs and connecting balanced equipment, it's a waste of money.

 

[rispsira]

Hey Man,
Thanks for the reply and link i will defenitelly check these out!!

I didnt mean that i wanted to use balanced cables and plugs for unbalanced connections. In my rig i only have a couple of connections that should be balanced and was wondering what to get specifically for those. I will go for unbalanced for all my connections aside these.

I got another interesting reply:

" 2524 is a coax using shield to carry the signal. In my experience the sound is more dynamic and the blacks are blacker (space between notes) when you use identical conductors for positive and negative, and leave the shield to block noise instead of carry the signal.

There are also advantages to floating the shield at one end where the noise picked up by the shield is bled to ground. The advantages to rejecting noise can be more theoretical than practical in every environment between every two pieces of gear in a rack, but if it sounds better and works better on paper; why not? (assuming the price of using it over 2524 is not a deal breaker).

A "good" coax (single conductor with shield) will sound better than a "bad" twinax (dual conductor with shield), however a "good" twinax generally sounds better than a "good" coax.

For example, if you are comparing a coax Mogami model using a 24 awg conductor of given quality and strand-count and PE insulation and spiral shield, to a twinax Mogami model using 24 conductors of same quality and strand-count and PE insulation and spiral shield, the twinax will sound better (and cost more and take more time to build).

You can also used a twinax cable for any balanced connections your rack might make available… really handy ?

Not that you can't use 2524 and get perfectly wonderful sounding results. We are niggling a bit but you can get a 10' length of each, build an instrument cable, listen and see if the differences are noticeable and/or worth paying for to have applied throughout your entire signal path."


That sounds interesting but now i am even more lost LOL (especially since i dont understand most of this. refer to my first post LOL)

What do you guys think of this? Has anyone tried something similar??

 

[mr_fender]

There's a lot of internet "experts" out there. Take what you read with a grain of salt. I'm my experience with a lot of this stuff, there are the measurable properties of things and then there is power of suggestion. There is so much bullshit surrounding cables out there. Most of it comes from the manufacurers themselves. It's called marketing. For cables, there are generally four things to look for: capacitance, resistance, shielding, and durability. These are physical, measurable qualities for any cable. For a good, "transparent" cable, you want low capacitance, low resistance, very good shielding, and very good durability. Forget about all the other bullshit. Capacitance in the cable kills your high frequency content. Resistance in the cable causes signal loss (not really an issue with guitar instrument cables, but a very big deal in speaker cables). Shielding keeps out the noise and interference, and durability is self-explanitory. At audio frequencies, everything else is marketing bullshit.

Just as a point of reference, MANY players (Hendrix, Page, Clapton, Townsend, etc.) back in the day used to use those crappy coiled instrument cables that look like handset cords on old phones. Those were terrible cables by modern standards, yet they were used to produce many of the sounds we know and love. The electric guitar is not a full range audio instrument. For its relatively narrow band of frequencies (about 60Hz to about 8kHz), most any cable will get the job done. Unless you are using 30 foot long cables, I wouldn't worry too much about all the little details. Just get something that is durable and resonably priced.

 

[rispsira]

There's a lot of internet "experts" out there. Take what you read with a grain of salt. I'm my experience with a lot of this stuff, there are the measurable properties of things and then there is power of suggestion. There is so much bullshit surrounding cables out there. Most of it comes from the manufacurers themselves. It's called marketing. For cables, there are generally four things to look for: capacitance, resistance, shielding, and durability. These are physical, measurable qualities for any cable. For a good, "transparent" cable, you want low capacitance, low resistance, very good shielding, and very good durability. Forget about all the other bullshit. Capacitance in the cable kills your high frequency content. Resistance in the cable causes signal loss (not really an issue with guitar instrument cables, but a very big deal in speaker cables). Shielding keeps out the noise and interference, and durability is self-explanitory. At audio frequencies, everything else is marketing bullshit.

Just as a point of reference, MANY players (Hendrix, Page, Clapton, Townsend, etc.) back in the day used to use those crappy coiled instrument cables that look like handset cords on old phones. Those were terrible cables by modern standards, yet they were used to produce many of the sounds we know and love. The electric guitar is not a full range audio instrument. For its relatively narrow band of frequencies (about 60Hz to about 8kHz), most any cable will get the job done. Unless you are using 30 foot long cables, I wouldn't worry too much about all the little details. Just get something that is durable and resonably priced.

Good point. i do think im complicating my life a bit too much.. Thank you man.

I still have a question what is the use of golden connectors (like those in my monster cables) since i know that they dont affect sonically. I heard they "oxidize" slower over time. Does that simply mean they last longer and do you think thats a good argument to get them?

Also should i you use a spray cleaner for the connectors?

Thanks again!!

 

[mr_fender]

Yes, that's right. Pure gold does not oxidize. Gold is also a good conductor. That's why it's so popular for electrical contacts (like on CPU and RAM pins). Gold does a good job of keeping your contacts free of corrosion, so it certainly won't hurt. If you feel like paying the extra money, then go for it.

That doen't mean that Gold plugs don't have to be cleaned though. Oxidation is not the only contact culprit. Gold plugs are still just as prone to gathering fingerprint oils, dust, spilled beer, etc., so a good cleaning every now and then is still probably a good idea. Contact cleaner works great. Just be careful what you spray it on, as some types can damage some materials like plastic or paint. A little Isopropyl Alcohol (rubbing alcohol, like in first aid kits) on a cloth or Q-tip works well too.

 

[MrMarkIII]

Way back in 1992, Guitar Player mag ran a "shootout" test among all the cables available then: Mogami, Monster, etc.
Who won? Carvin. Yes, Carvin. At the time, their 15' footer was $7.99.
Within a year, they had gone up to $14.99.

 

[rispsira]

Yes, that's right. Pure gold does not oxidize. Gold is also a good conductor. That's why it's so popular for electrical contacts (like on CPU and RAM pins). Gold does a good job of keeping your contacts free of corrosion, so it certainly won't hurt. If you feel like paying the extra money, then go for it.

That doen't mean that Gold plugs don't have to be cleaned though. Oxidation is not the only contact culprit. Gold plugs are still just as prone to gathering fingerprint oils, dust, spilled beer, etc., so a good cleaning every now and then is still probably a good idea. Contact cleaner works great. Just be careful what you spray it on, as some types can damage some materials like plastic or paint. A little Isopropyl Alcohol (rubbing alcohol, like in first aid kits) on a cloth or Q-tip works well too.

Thanks for the info! The guy from Redco advised me: "the Caig D5 Deoxit leaves a protective layer behind to protect contacts longer than the other Cleaner we sell, which will evaporate after cleaning."

http://www.redco.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=136&cat=Cleaning+Chemicals+%2B+Air

 

[rispsira]

Way back in 1992, Guitar Player mag ran a "shootout" test among all the cables available then: Mogami, Monster, etc.
Who won? Carvin. Yes, Carvin. At the time, their 15' footer was $7.99.
Within a year, they had gone up to $14.99.

Wow, talk about marketing!
I researched that and got this, i dono if its the same review ur talking about but gonna read it now:

http://www.guitarplayer.com/article/49-guitar-cables/apr-08/34729