Bugera Mark Clone amp! Holy Likely Lawsuit Batman!!!

[SonicProvocateur]

That "TRIREC" they've got going on would be a good candidate for modding since its made from junk. Especially if it actually sounds anything like a real recto. I wonder if FJA mods would do one??

 

[Tout]

Man that is the cheesiest looking amp I have ever seen.

+10

I've played a few of these new Bugera heads just for sh!t and giggles and these things sound like barf. A few friends of mine have bought them as well, but very new players. The pricing of these are directly targeting the beginner crowd...

following not too far in the path of the Marshshall HDFX line. :lol: :lol: :lol:

All the Best,
~Nep~

Don't know what you played through but Bugera's definitely don't sound like barf! I own a 6262 120 watt head and sounds beautiful, the clean shimmers and the distortion rocks, maybe you needed to EQ it better. As a matter of fact it sounds EXACTLY like the old Peavey 5150 amp only with a MUCH better clean channel.

You will not find much better for $550 and there are plenty of people who play as a hobby rather than gigging musicians who don't want to waste $2000 for an amp to play in their garage or jam room.

 

[Neptical]

Man that is the cheesiest looking amp I have ever seen.

+10

I've played a few of these new Bugera heads just for sh!t and giggles and these things sound like barf. A few friends of mine have bought them as well, but very new players. The pricing of these are directly targeting the beginner crowd...

following not too far in the path of the Marshshall HDFX line. :lol: :lol: :lol:

All the Best,
~Nep~

Don't know what you played through but Bugera's definitely don't sound like barf! I own a 6262 120 watt head and sounds beautiful, the clean shimmers and the distortion rocks, maybe you needed to EQ it better. As a matter of fact it sounds EXACTLY like the old Peavey 5150 amp only with a MUCH better clean channel.

You will not find much better for $550 and there are plenty of people who play as a hobby rather than gigging musicians who don't want to waste $2000 for an amp to play in their garage or jam room.

Tone is pretty subjective, so its always a subject that can run circles forever--so its only just a matter of preference per person. One thing I find in common with alot of these newer amps is that gritty nasal sound, which is not my cup of tea. As you mentioned the 5150, I found the same deal with that amp as well. But as they say, 'different strokes for different folks'.

All the Best,
~Nep~

 

[TimeSignature]

One thing you can NOT argue is quality.... of the work put in to build the amp AND of the parts put into these amps.

Yes, tone is subjective. I've never played thru the Magician so I cant comment on the tone... nor have I.

But I still think the Magician is a frickin' cheesey looking amp. Sorry Bugera lovers... what can i say? :lol:

 

[TimeSignature]

BTW

Im gonna to build my own amps ... the company will be called Boogie Woogie. Several lines will be called the Espresso 6:36 (and 6:60), the Alone Star, the Electric Dyno and the St. Letto. Laaaaame. :roll:

 

[av8or3]

imitation is the sincerest form of flattery....it will be interesting to see if there is anything Mesa can do about it,and/or if they will.
My guess is that they won't.

Now, were this a copy of a Rickenbacker.......
The lawyers for Ric would be all over this.
Jim

 

[dodger916]

BTW

Im gonna to build my own amps ... the company will be called Boogie Woogie. Several lines will be called the Espresso 6:36 (and 6:60), the Alone Star, the Electric Dyno and the St. Letto. Laaaaame. :roll:

:lol: :lol: . What...no Dueling Rectumfriers??

 

[Heritage Softail]

I went in to Dirt Cheap Music, played a Bugera 2x12 "333". The guy at the store said it is a copy, not of road musician quality, best suited to take home, set up, and never move it. Quality issues come out if you are a gigging musician. I thought that was pretty straight up of the guy and sums up why Bugera will not compete with Boogie for musicians that play out.

It did sound pretty good. Cheap reverb, fragile looking knobs. IMO, if you think the amp sounds terrible, it is probably a good bit in the playing going in to the amp. All teenager ranting aside, not a bad cheap amp. You have to know it is built like crap if he salesman tells you not to move it too many times. I won't buy one. Will save up and get a used MKIV.

 

[Tout]

I went in to Dirt Cheap Music, played a Bugera 2x12 "333". The guy at the store said it is a copy, not of road musician quality, best suited to take home, set up, and never move it. Quality issues come out if you are a gigging musician. I thought that was pretty straight up of the guy and sums up why Bugera will not compete with Boogie for musicians that play out.

It did sound pretty good. Cheap reverb, fragile looking knobs. IMO, if you think the amp sounds terrible, it is probably a good bit in the playing going in to the amp. All teenager ranting aside, not a bad cheap amp. You have to know it is built like crap if he salesman tells you not to move it too many times. I won't buy one. Will save up and get a used MKIV.

LOL

What a clueless salesman... have you ever opened up a Bugera? The knobs are cheap on all amps, that's why they cost less than a buck to replace. They have ceramic tube sockets, maybe cheapo pots and generic caps, like any other manufactured amp. So I guess what I am saying that if you compare Bugera to Peavey, Marshall, Fender, Vox, Crate, Ibanez, etc, etc the quality is pretty much the same.

There is nothing illegal about an amp company making an amp similar to another, as long as the schematics are different in some way, they can sound the same and even look the same to a degree, how many amps out there really look DIFFERENT from each other? You've got a box with tolex on it and knobs on the front to adjust the tone, pretty basic: knobs, tolex, plugs, switches and light covers. On the inside, wire, tube sockets, tubes, caps, resistors, PCB, connectors, etc are all purchased from manufacturers then assembled by the amp makers. Not a lot of variation is available.

Mesa is not gonna do anything about a Mark IV clone amp made by Bugera or anyone else for that matter, for two reasons:

1. There's is nothing they CAN do about it unless Bugera makes a direct copy of the amp... you know, like EXACT copy.
2. They know people will still buy their amps because of the OUTSTANDING quality and service they offer.

Maybe some cheap, decent competition will drive prices down on amps like Mesa and Bogner. I love the sound of the Mesa but it took 20 years and buying one on eBay before I bought one, I could not justify the expenditure otherwise.

 

[giorikas81]

I've seen enough butthearting in harmony-central about bugera amps. As if peavey didn't, you know, borrow stuff and amp philosofy (not to claim they borrowed much of fenders designs!!!or soldano...) and later on went with china production. But it is OK because what? It is a USA company that feeds americans. Well not any more, not that it could. Soldano went china too you know with jet city and so on.

I really have to comment to two things. Firts of all I too, and I don't have any bugera amp, find that it sounds better than the 5150 series and this includes low volume situations. It cannot be the exact same circuit. It does not have the (useless) ressonance control etc.


Secondly who in any case will be a pro and not take a mesa mark IV or V for a tour with the specific sound around many places and enjoy the support if anything goes wrong etc??? If you are so cheap *** to make serious money on tours you need a pro-level amp and support and I am not reffering to the sound it puts out. Even jimi hendrix wanted the marshalls and wanted to pay for them IF they'd give adequate support. Jim Marshall obliged and had hendrix's tech trained. NObody serious would get the bugera instead.

Anyway what is wrong with finally a mark copy from another company?

The world is full with marshall copies or even fender copies for ridiculous prices and with extra tweaks. You can get a peavey VTM instead of an jcm 800 and nobody bothers. From 200$ used!!! Or a laney AOR "with better components"...and the list goes on. But when bugera puts them out it is a bad thing?

Then you go "boutique" and pay for leather alcantara sides etc but it still is the same design. Simple plexi fender or vox bad cat designs...

Is it a fact that no major manufacturer or boutique builder bothered with the technically more demanding designs of mesa marks, (the recto is kinda soldano based which is marsall based evolution etc.) or diezel and other amps? Anybody ever tried to make an amp builder make them a mark IV?

Maybe they couldn't or didn't have the pride to say that they think that randall smith put out a hell of a great amp and yeah, as a boutique builder (my ***) I'd like to put out one too...


Bugera did and this means a couple of good things. Let's take for a fact that it does sound like a mark should (there are people that still claim the mark V to be lifeless and sterile and "not like the older marks"). What's wrong for a kid to be able to buy one new with warranty or even used for 400-500$ in the future and try the sound?

What's wrong for a hobbyist to buy it as a backup to his mark or even for gigs that he/she does not want to bother hauling his expensive amp there?

What's wrong with a tone chaser being able to have a part of the mesa mark sound for way less? Maybe he doesn't have the money to buy the real thing and try but the bugera may very well give him a great taste and actually may push him to save up for a real mark to a) get the real thing, trophy-amp or not b) find out if it really is that different c) because he needs the reliability to make it its number one amp.

All of the above would not buy a mark either for the money or for not having tried it out anyway and these includes rehearsals and live gigs. And the most strong part is that you simply will never ever be able to buy a real mark IV combo for 700$ (which I estimate the price of the bugera magician) even used.


If you think of bugera think of it as mp3's. They get you a great taste and sound for a lot less and if you like it maybe you buy a real record (amp) of this in the future. Otherwise you'd never try it.

I would never sell my mesa's to get a 5150. Now I can get the 6262 which doesn't feel cheap to me but adequate to be honest and keep my mesa's. In europe the 6260 went for as low as 265 euros new with three year warranty. How cool is that. If I like the 6262 and want to use the 5150 on gigs I maybe end up buying a 5150 in the end. Eveyrbody is happy

Bugera, peavey, me. Why not the same with mesa boogie?

 

[sted]

I couldnt give a tiny rats *** about bugera making clones, they can call it the mork series for all I care, it may sound the same but it simply wont have the quality, an amp is only the sum of its parts plus labour to build it, thats it! If its cheaper in either of those departments then it'll be a cheaper amp with cheaper components or less skilled labour, thats not a crime, its just a fact, and thats fine by me, hats off to Bugera, well done.
But i didnt buy the mark V out of any loyalty to anyone, I bought it because it has a long history of reliability, had all the tones I wanted and has a figurehead in Randall Smith who says "Heres my work and the buck stops with me" if a bugera amp had all those boxes ticked I would have bought that one, but it didnt so I bought the mark five.
I have no doubt that for the price point the Bugeras are hard to beat, again, well done Bugera, anything that brings great tones to musicians is fine by me, but dont start telling me that they have a magical formula to grow top quality amps for less than everyone else can, its just nonsensical in economic terms.

 

[EleventhHour2139]

Giorikas81, you make some valid points, however you are missing the greater point here.

No one really cares if one amp can emulate the tone/sound capabilities of another, as long as it's not an infringement of copyright of circuits etc. It's been done to death, really. But for a company to go and make BLATANT physical look-alikes with similar names, modes, layouts, etc. is HUGELY disrespectful.

It's all good and well that they're making budget amps, nothing is wrong with that and they have every right to do so. Those who know the difference between quality and lack thereof will always know, those who don't will find out what they're buying into with these "bargains." But when these companies are making their budget amps, why sink down to the level of ripping off other companies designs, names, layouts etc?

Just a thought.

 

[Tout]

I don't want anyone here thinking I am starting a flame war or anything! Hopefully no one takes this conversation too seriously!

I just think it would be quite funny (and hypocritical) if Mesa decided to drop a lawsuit on another company for making an amp similar to theirs. You remember how Mr. Smith started his business, right? He took a Fender and modified it to be his first amp. You get that? He took an actual Fender amp and modified it.

He changed it around quite a bit because that would be a direct patent infringement, but still. A modified Fender was the prototype for his Mark I amp.

 

[Heritage Softail]

If you get laid off over illegal imports that are copyright infringements of your employers product, then it will all of a sudden matter. I had to lay people off last year. Never ever a good thing. You loose your job, insurance, pension, it is a disaster. Bugera and other blatant technology thefts hurts American industry and people, one person/family at a time. Not really much of a story. We enjoy a little better lifestyle than other parts of the world, it comes at a cost. You may pay a bit more to buy American but it keeps people in jobs and buying beers where you play or buying your concert T-shirts, CD's. I enjoyed seening a friend play out Saturday night. If we spend all of our money outside of the US, all our money will be outside the US. It is OK to be a little protectionist, I like to get along with all kinds of people, but when you get down to it, we don't owe the rest of the world a thing. And if you have not been to a few other countries, have a few years of life under your belt, don't waste your breath telling me I am wrong/crazy/of the very best one - "closed minded".

Flame on!! :lol: :lol:

 

[TimeSignature]

If you get laid off over illegal imports that are copyright infringements of your employers product, then it will all of a sudden matter. I had to lay people off last year. Never ever a good thing. You loose your job, insurance, pension, it is a disaster. Bugera and other blatant technology thefts hurts American industry and people, one person/family at a time. Not really much of a story. We enjoy a little better lifestyle than other parts of the world, it comes at a cost. You may pay a bit more to buy American but it keeps people in jobs and buying beers where you play or buying your concert T-shirts, CD's. I enjoyed seening a friend play out Saturday night. If we spend all of our money outside of the US, all our money will be outside the US. It is OK to be a little protectionist, I like to get along with all kinds of people, but when you get down to it, we don't owe the rest of the world a thing. And if you have not been to a few other countries, have a few years of life under your belt, don't waste your breath telling me I am wrong/crazy/of the very best one - "closed minded".

Flame on!! :lol: :lol:

+100000000

Well said!

 

[mr_fender]

Competition is a good thing. It brings out innovation and keeps prices low. The consumer is most often the one that benifits. Everone borrows ideas from others. Boogie did it. Early Marks are Fenders on steroids. Marshall did it. JTM 45 is basically a tweaked Fender Bassman clone. The list goes on and on. Nothing wrong with borrowing ideas for inspiration. That said, flat out rip-off copies are not cool. Especially when they are crappy made Chinese ones. I don't know if Boogie will bother with a lawsuit, but this one certainly raises a few eyebrows.

 

[TimeSignature]

I believe competition is good as well. But competition as in Mark IV vs Powerball vs JCM2000 vs JSX vs 5150. Not Mark IV vs knock off cheap chinese made Mark IV.

 

[giorikas81]

Actually timesignature kinda raises the whole thing. Real competitors are those well withing the price range and the same use range. That's why I said that no steady touring pro or semi would ever consider the bugera INSTEAD of a real mark even if it sounded the same at high volume.

One are two so-so things is, that bugera and peavey before it in my oppinion are/were not in the same market price wise with the "elite" boogies etc. So I find it a good thing even for boogie to be out there. No one is going to lose their jobs because something cheaper chinese came out if he does his job well. Else, tk'r'jabs!!! Don't make me make an analogy with GM. Boogie's name is for what it does, no1 in my list. It will sell the same because nobody that aims at a mesa will consider the bugera. Worth the extra money and I live in europe and you know how it goes with boogie prices.

I still find the bugeras as free promo for other amps anyway.
About the build quality though I am no engineer or something but I can hypothetise that amp A made in USA is built (maybe asembled would be a better word) from 123 premium parts and woods and costs 2000$. In it there is profit the name tag and the support network (all irrelevant to the sound).

Amp B(ugera) clones the same amp with 123 premium components (same) in china deducting the name tag, some of the profit and the support network. Give me a price for amp B

Amp C (bugera?) clones the 90% essence of the amp using not the best of the best components but maybe acceptable ones. Does the same thing with the profit name tag and support network. Is this the true bugera?


There are idiotic boutique builders that sell mithrill laden circuits for more than a boogie and criticise boogie for the lack of quality !!!. In my book they can kiss my big smelly hairy behind anyway but to keep an open mind also meands that the bugera can also be of high quality for the cost it is asking? Maybe somebody who examined a 6262 can say something.

 

[herrball]

SO last summer I'm at an outdoor festival near my town and Earth, Wind and Fire was playing. My wife and I were at the back drinking wine but I had to get closer because the guitar player had such a smokin chops and great tone. Wanted to see who he was and what he was using so I moved up to the stage to see. (thought it might be a friend of mine)

The guy was playing two Bugera 2x12 combos stacked (don't know the model) and a GT-10 on the floor. My point is pretty simple.....

It was his chops and tone that got my attention. Whatever tools you use, be they expensive or inexpensive, either you can play or not.

I hate to sound cold on this but the guy got the gig. As many of our heroes say time and time again, its not in the gear, its in your fingers.

Now, I'm not selling my boogies anytime soon but I still have my crappy Dean Markley solid state with a Rat for small gigs and rehearsals.

Play on....!

 

[chipaudette]

I live in the North East. What's the difference between me sending my money 3000 miles to California or 7000 miles to China?

If I buy that Chinese amp in the North East, 50% goes to the local store and distributor and shipping company, another 25% goes to the west coast (U.S.) wholesaler and importer, and 25% goes back to China...which, as far as guys being in my bar and buying my CDs, is the same as someone in California...ie, a faceless nobody far away who is NOT in my bar and is NOT buying my CD.

I'm totally in agreement amount keeping money local...but local is local...not California. If plants are growing, buy your food from the farm down the street. If it's out of season, buy from Yuma, AZ, or from Peru, or Chile or wherever suits you and your politics. Similarly, if you're rich enough, buy your guitar amp from that boutique guy down the street. If not, buy it from China or California or Germany or wherever...it's all decidedly NOT local to me and it makes jobs for whatever human beings are in THAT local area. Why should a person in California be any more valid or worthy (to me) than a person in Shuangdong?

Thoughts for your consideration and rebuttal. What does local mean? And, if it's NOT the guy that you run into at the store/bar/school/whatever, why is one person any more worthy of your dollar than another?

Chip