''Boutique not Newtique''

[bartchamdoh]

Am i alone here? Instead of mesa bringing out a new amp every year and discontinuing the old models ie the F series, Nomads etc. Why dont they bring out a boutique model like back in the day......surely there is a market for such an amp or are Two Rock, Bogner etc doing what i want mesa to be doing instead. Why am i playing mark series amps instead of the latest companys flagship amp?Surely mesa can bring out a good original product of boutique quality instead of a best of the old ie the mark 5! Most of the newer amps are 1 trick ponies ie recto or roadster for metal and lone star for fender on ts-808 steroids tone! Even the entry amps seem to have lost there mojo(and worse still are probably the best product they have at the mo, instead of a budget option!)Yup for me newer mesa,s seem to have lost their way give me a mark 3 or dc 3 any day!

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I think I agree with you to some extent. I would much rather play my Heartbreaker and DC-10 than run right out and get a Mark V.

I bought one of the 1st Roadsters that came out. Had to have it!
I sold it less than 2 months later at not much of a loss because I found that I only used 2 channels and really didn't have the time to tweak it and find my tones.


I'm not into gimmicks and options as much as I used to be. Especially since I do a ton of mods on my personal amps anyway. :lol:
I hate the 'Recto-Tracking' which only lets you use the tube rectifier if you are on the lower wattage settings, and the delay in Reverb when changing channels is unacceptable to me.


All of this being said, maybe you should try out an Electra-Dyne. From what I've read, it's more aimed at your tastes (and probably mine) than the other offerings.

 

[zebpedersen]

Boogie are much more nowadays than when they just used to make one or two models, and they're the only manufacturer with a full range of products with outstanding tone and quality right across the board - and I think that's a much more impressive feat than Two-Rock, Fuchs etc... who build a couple of very nice but very, very expensive amps in very, very limited quantities.

And if you don't like how Boogie is today, well, do what you said yourself! Pick up a Mark III or DC combo, even a Mark I or Studio Pre - it's that build quality which means you can buy second hand and still have it factory-fresh, whichever period of Boogie-history is your bag.

 

[BoogieDown]

Boogie are much more nowadays than when they just used to make one or two models, and they're the only manufacturer with a full range of products with outstanding tone and quality right across the board - and I think that's a much more impressive feat than Two-Rock, Fuchs etc... who build a couple of very nice but very, very expensive amps in very, very limited quantities.

And if you don't like how Boogie is today, well, do what you said yourself! Pick up a Mark III or DC combo, even a Mark I or Studio Pre - it's that build quality which means you can buy second hand and still have it factory-fresh, whichever period of Boogie-history is your bag.

Agreed. There are a lot of things in the world that are bullsh*t, but mesa amps are not one of them. They are one of the few high-quality amp companies that produces new products with new features that aren't gimmicky. One thing i can say from my limited experience w/ mesa amps is that the marketing hype involved in selling them isn't totally baseless. i can't say that about most of the booteek products, which for the most part are trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

[RR]

...Most of the newer amps are 1 trick ponies ie recto or roadster for metal and lone star for fender on ts-808 steroids tone! ...

:?: I think its the other way around. There's so many bells and whistle on the Mark V, Roadster, Road King II getting all kinds amp tones. But they only capture only say 60% of the sound they intend to do. (my opinion)

Say you compare a Mark V mode of a "Mark II-C+" with a genuine Mark II-C+. The Mark II-C+ owner could point out the differences. The Mark II-C+ is specialize for what it does. The Mark V mode of a "Mark II-C+" is trying to "capture" the tone of the Mark II-C+.

I played many Boogies from discountinued models to currently model. I only purchase the one that I know is a keeper which are a Mark II-B Colesium (upgrades), Trem-o-Verb, Maverick (I also have Studio .22+ that lug around to entertain friends).

I was about to trade my Mark IIB for then newest Boogie a Mark III (mid 80's). But the Mark III was oversaturated overdrive for my taste. I could understand why others like it but I prefer the Mark IIB (Fender w/ overdrive).

Then I wanted a EL84 channel switching type amp so seems like the LoneStar Special would be ideal. But I tried both LoneStar Special and a Maverick. There was something about using the tube rectifier (5AR4) in 35 watt mode of the Maverick which the LoneStar cannot do. The Lone star using the silicon diode rectifier in 35 watt mode.

I'm just not sure if there's a big enough market to reissue past discountinue Boogie such as the Blue Angel, Maverick, HeartBreaker, Trem-o-Verb, Mark IIC+ and others.

 

[bartchamdoh]

The first boogie i ever played was a studio 22+ going second hand in my local music shop my friend bought it and he wasn,t happy until he had a/b,d it against all the best amps in the shop i had never heard of mesa boogie before and couldn,t believe the tone that amp had!Needless to say when my friend sold the said amp i snapped it up!Later when a copy of the 1995 catalog arrived in the shop i remember drooling over many of the amps available there were mark 1 reissues mark3,s and 4,s IN PRODUCTION AT THE SAME TIME!!! Dual calibers and subway rockets and blues amps as well as the revolver(a boogie leslie cab....like wow!)When i tried many of these products in shop drooling gave way to astonishment and disbelief.Back then if you played a boogie it meant you were a player.Now with mass production lots of people play boogies(our local rehearsal studio sports a couple of single recs) these amps break down on a regular basis so i take mine down mark 2,s and 3,s they rarely break down(like almost never)sound better and cover more musical ground and playing through them still inspires and motivates me.It,s been along time since i,ve drooled over a rescent mesa catalog or product!!!

 

[Monsta-Tone]

While I do think that they are trying too hard to build the Swiss Army Amp, they always come up with inventive additions.
And, build quality is right up there with every THD, Soldano, etc. that I've ever owned or operated on.

I got my Heartbreaker for $600 + shipping and after a few (ok, all of them) tasty mods, it is hands down, one of the best amps I've ever owned.

I think the problem is, they have grown so much and their target audience is so vast that they feel the need to provide an amp that almost everyone can enjoy.

 

[RR]

the cool part about MESA Boogie introducing new amplifiers, most of the time their discountinue model amps go down in price.

I could see myself purchasing a Blue Angel and / or HeartBreaker in the future. I like to capitalize on those who wants to flip their amp to get the newest model. :lol:

 

[GD_NC]

I'm not sure the super-complex uber amps are my thing either. I'm certain they sound fantastic. But they are also somewhat overwhelming and probably more than an old dude like me will ever need.

HOWEVER, that does not keep me from being a HUGE mesa fan.

If you don't dig the new stuff, go retro. Mesa amps last forever and the old ones are widely available and easy to fix. There are plenty of good old boogies out there with dead simple layouts and killer tone like Calibers, DC, F's, Subway/Rockets even mark IIB or Mark III's that can be had for much less than the new crap every local music store is full of. I can't see much point in Reissues when nearly all the originals are still alive and kicking.

I've owned 3 Mesa amps over the past 20 years. I bought them all used at a significant discount from the original price. The best part is I've made a reasonable profit on the two I sold AFTER getting several years of use out of them. You just can't say that about many products.

You'd be hard pressed to get better tone for your $$ than an old Mark III or DC. Either of those amps can hold their own with most $3000 Boutiques on the market.

I don't think Mesa should stop innovating it wouldn't make sense. That does not mean we have to run out and spend $3200 on a RK II halfstack to appreciate it.

 

[rvschulz]

If you don't dig the new stuff, go retro. Mesa amps last forever and the old ones are widely available and easy to fix. There are plenty of good old boogies out there with dead simple layouts and killer tone like Calibers, DC, F's, Subway/Rockets even mark IIB or Mark III's that can be had for much less than the new crap every local music store is full of.
You'd be hard pressed to get better tone for your $$ than an old Mark III or DC. Either of those amps can hold their own with most $3000 Boutiques on the market.

I don't think Mesa should stop innovating it wouldn't make sense. That does not mean we have to run out and spend $3200 on a RK II halfstack to appreciate it.

This is truth. Most of the guys I run into with their "fill-in-the-blanks" boutique amp recently have acknowledged they are one trick ponies that do one thing very well. That was my .50 + but it did one thing "at a time" very well - i just didn't dig flipping knobs to go from clean to breakup to dirty ... needed more "channels"

Mark III ftw. really don't understand why someone needs more.

 

[bartchamdoh]

Yup originally boogie were like the bogner, fuchs, two rock of their day a small company making a couple of boutique amps that could cover any musical base and that were built to last( my 2b is 26 years old and playing like it was made yesterday!)all you need is one good amp and a geetar.I,m not saying modern mesa,s are crap but they,re not the boutique affairs of yester year mark2c+,s and mark 4,s currently go for almost 2 grand this side of the pond and to me right now buying a mark 3 is a steal when you consider how much you can get one for at the moment!Thing is i,d rather have any of these models than a current boogie(and indeed thats exactly what i do use!!!)Hence the title of this thread lol.

 

[GD_NC]

Seems to me we are in violent agreement on the old stuff!

But, I don't agree that MB has lost their way. They are still producting some of the best stuff out there for VERY reasonable prices. Put a $2200 RoadKing or Mark V against a matchless, Dr. Z (insert your favorite high $ amp) or what have you. The MB will put these amps to shame AND you get to keep a $1000 in your pocket. PLUS you can sell it for 70-80% of what you paid for it a few of years later.

If I was a touring musician I'd be drooling over either of these amps! They are perfect for the working musician with a serious rig. You get all the advantages and flexibility of multiple amps without hassle of dragging a pile of amps around (and backups).

I'd love to have one! I just don't need all that for what I do.

 

[bartchamdoh]

Everyone is entitled to there own opinion if not there would only be one amp and one type of player and everyone would be happy lol. I,ve played a road king combo several times....it,s to big ,to heavy and i failed to get any inspiring tones from it whatsoever! to me it,s an amp that tries to be a master of all trades but truely is a master of none, to much on it but the sound quality just isn,t there. The mark 5 may well be a good amp but my problem with it is that every mark series amp was an evolution in that chain not a best of! why not reissue the 2c+ or mark 4 these truely are examples of mesa at their peak, great quality tones, build and mojo. Why would i buy a mark 5 that does a good simulation of these classic amps....is mesa trying to do an up market line 6 approach to sales? I,m sorry but i would rather have a matchless ,dr z or insert boutique amp than(and may i emphasise this)any current boogie models.

 

[zebpedersen]

I,m sorry but i would rather have a matchless ,dr z or insert boutique amp than(and may i emphasise this)any current boogie models.

Than all current Boogie models, or just the Recto series? I wouldn't have a Recto either, for what it's worth, just not my bag. However, a more 'limited' current Boogie, such as the Lone Star series, has stacks of tone, same as a boutique P2P for way less wedge and absolutely screams ahead in terms of everyday usability.

To compare the Road King, which seems to get people quite unhappy sometimes, to the Bugatti Veyron - it's a technical meisterwerk, the coming together of every possible feature and innovation known to the industry in one place - more speakers, more power, more everything than anything else on the market. Technology from the Bugatti will be applied to Lamborghini and Audi supercars, even Volkswagens, in the same way as assignable power outputs, the solo control, multiple FX loops, different rectifiers for different channels etc... make it down to the Lone Star and Express series. It's not a watertight analogy but it rings pretty true, and even though I wouldn't have one as my own amp I respect thoroughly the innovation and the fact that Boogie are pushing the envelope - in the same way as they did back in '69 with the Princeton - to this very day. We can all benefit from the features garnered from the innovative 'headline' hyper-amps at the top of the range whether you go for an Electro-Dyne or a Lone Star or whatever you choose. Either that or just go to eBay, apparently

(I'm really not a huge RK or indeed Recto fan, but someone needs to defend it/their position in the range - Boogie have most certainly not 'lost their way'!)

 

[bartchamdoh]

Dear zeb it,s great that you are loyal fan of surely one of the most inovative amp companys there is unfortunately inovation and great tone do not always go together!(perhaps something mesa should take note of)The road king with all its bells and whistles is a prime example of an amp that does it all but simply doesn,t tick the tone box!The lonestar is a great sounding amp but no matter what i do when i,ve played one you just can,t dial out that hot rodded texas blues tone.I would rather buy a good fender amp and put a couple of good pedals through it ie a deluxe or deville not only would it be more versatile but miles cheaper as well!I,ve not played an express, they look to be ok but i,d rather have a studio or dual caliber to be honest(i have a.50 caliber head)The electradyne amp looks horrendous so sorry to judge an amp on appearances but honestly it doesnt even look like a boogie.As you can see the current range doesnt float my boat but on the flip side of the coin it really irks me when all these so called classic amp books mention all the classic? fenders, marshalls etc but boogie dont even get a look in for all the yoosh amp snob reasons ie master volumes, cascading pre amp gain etc etc as oppossed to the real issues of build quality, tone etc.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I work on them all, and honestly, the build quality is really good for the most part.
But...they, like all companies, have a price range that they have to stay in. There is no way that they could become as large of a company as they are and produce as many amps as they do without cutting a corner or 2 to stay within those budgetary restraints.

A prime example is the Heartbreaker. It has plastic 'D' shaft pots.
The Nomad has cheap pots that are prone to early failure.
The DC's and Calibers are prone to LDR failure.

All that being said, their quality is still hands down the best among amps that are produced in their quantity or any larger quantities.

The only better built amps I've ever owned were Soldanos and THD's.


I wouldn't own a new Mesa if you gave it to me. Not because of the quality or lack there of.
I don't see anything in their lineup that interest me.
I have a Heartbreaker combo and a DC-10 head. I would really love to own a Maverick. I sold my DC-10 and it came back. I sold both of my Heartbreakers when I was broke and then I found an incredible deal on a really sweet one. I don't miss my Mark IV's, Roadster, Caliber 50+, Lonestars, etc. These 2 amps provide me with enough sounds to annoy people a mile from my house. :lol:

I really hate where they are headed with the channel switching, reverb delays, huge footswitches, etc. Over the years, and gears, I've realized that I just need a great amp with few bells and whistles that sounds incredible and makes everybody who hears it (including myself) green with tone envy!
I've owned so many of their amps that it is easier to name the ones I have not:
Mark I
Mark II
Mark III
Mark V
Roadster
Maverick

I still really want a Mark III and a Maverick, so I look for a broken one everyday on ebay and here in the Boogie Classifieds.
Other than that, I'm extremely satisfied....... :mrgreen: for now anyway! :mrgreen:

 

[zebpedersen]

I don't think that Andy Timmons or John Petrucci are exponents of the 'texas hot-rod' tone in particular - both use Lone Star heads in their rigs - but that's down to personal definition of tone, I suppose.

Delay on the reverb was a very annoying problem on my first Boogie, the Subway Rocket. It didn't really affect performance that much, but it was still annoying. The footswitch on the Mark IV is about as big (bigger, even) as a footswitch should ever be, totally agree on that part. The 'King Kontroller' is an 'Nth degree' sort of thing (for an Nth degree sort of amp, I suppose).

In the past, tone and innovation went hand in hand with each new range. The two may have separated somewhat of late, but Boogie still undeniably have a range which is tonally and feature-wise head and shoulders above the rest.

bartchamdoh - this is posted in a forum for owners/enthusiasts of vintage Boogies - who by definition have gone old school with their cash rather than heading down to the showroom, so whilst I don't agree entirely with what you're saying I'm sure you will find lots of similar opinion

 

[bartchamdoh]

Hey zeb i think i already have i see from your sig that your a fender into mark series amp kinda guy!Yup you just cant beat a good strat or tele into those amps......the three in particular suits my style as channel 2 sounds like my keeley modded tubescreamer and in my opinion the clean channel is better than the 4,s.The lead channel on the 2,3 and 4 are all good depending on your preference with the 2 having a rather cool clean channel.

 

[zebpedersen]

Fender + Mark = Tone Doesn't matter what they're building these days really!

Just a bit unfair I think to slag them when you can look at Marshall or Peavey's ranges - one or two good amps (Peavey Classic 30...er.....yeah maybe just one) but overall laughable (Marshall's attempts to out-feature Boogie with the JVM are particularly amusing).

 

[bartchamdoh]

Amen to that.