Badlander el34s vs 6L6 smackdown

[rarebitusa]

This topic started on another thread... thought it was worthwhile to throw up a specific one for it.

Initially when I got the Badlander and was just checking everything out, threw a set of STR440s in it just to see what that was all about. Yep there was a difference but didn't really analyze it much, a couple of hours later they got swapped out for the el34s. Now many months later the Badlander is currently the live rig. Much more familiar with its core voicing and of course digging it. With a few rehearsals in the books it's also pretty much dialed in now.

So @spawnofthesith2 got me to try 6L6s again. Oh why not. I was missing that fatter Mark clean anyway. Well this time around it was a different experience. First off the Badlander does the 6L6 swap thing well. It really offers a distinct choice. Unlike the V:90 el34 swap, where IMHO that was less of a defining character. The BAD 6L6 frequency shift was apparent, more mid-lows and bass, stiffer and denser. Cleans were more defined. With the el34s the cabs were an EVM Thiele with a 2x10 G10-40 cab, but that didn't work at all. Gone was all the upper end chime, sparkle and clarity and the EVM was dominating. Swapped the 2x10 out for a WB 1x12 Heritage G12-65, that sealed the deal, it brought back what the 2x10 previously had been providing and even more so. It sounded huge, this was real deal it was awesome at rehearsal. Starting to have hope I may actually become a better tube sniffer.

But for all the 6L6 goodness the BAD has, going back to the el34s. For only one reason... realizing the el34 thing is what I got the BAD for... it's not a Mark, or a LSS or even a Stiletto. It's this unique BAD thing that is different then the others. While the 6L6s did bring alot to the party if I want that sort of deal, I'll bring the V:90. Can plug either in to a show now guessing the mood I'm in will drive what rig gets taken next time.

 

[bandit2013]

Running the 6L6 does open up the door to other possible character. STR440 (if you have them), STR441, STR443, STR445, STR448. Greens and greys may have the early distortion characteristics similar to the STR447 which usually seem to run the green, grey and blue colors. Sure, different tube. I did try a set of STR448 reds, they were a bit lame unless you want a mostly clean sounding amp (even on the higher gain modes). STR445 green were much on par with the original STR447 tubes but with slight volume penalty. STR448 grey, just as aggressive as the STR445 green. It is worth exploring but I sort of got hooked on the EL34 tubes.

 

[spawnofthesith2]

Nice!! I still have the 6l6s in mine but I may go back the EL34s. I've been crazy busy so haven't had as much time to mess around as I'd like but things are starting to calm down a little

I have a 2x12 vertical diagonal coming at some point (its on backorder) but looking forward to bringing that into the mix with things. I haven't had a v30 loaded cab in quite a while. I loved the old mesa trad 4x12 I used to have but its been quite some time. I haven't really liked any V30 IRs I've tried since going down that rabbit hole but who knows. I like the sound of an amp moving air through a cab. Even a lazily placed sennheiser mic dangling over the amp sounds better to me in my in ears than times I've tried going direct with IRs lol.

 

[rarebitusa]

I still have the 6l6s in mine but I may go back the EL34s. I

I was ready to swap back but when I fired the rig up again it sounded really good, so I'm delaying the swap for at least one more band rehearsal.

 

[rarebitusa]

FWIW... Badlander, 6L6s and the WB 1x12 G12-65 was most excellent. Sat great in the band mix. I can't help but tweak $#!t but this setup is a solid one for sure.

 

[spawnofthesith2]

I'll probably at least temporarily pop EL34s back in this weekend just to see how I like the sound with this new speaker config vs. the 6L6s. Seems like its hard to go wrong either way though, such a cool amp

 

[rarebitusa]

I'll probably at least temporarily pop EL34s back in this weekend just to see

Always interested in the any take from that.

 

[RIFFxHARD]

I’ve made several test, STR420, STR430 and STR440, I’m not a EL34 fan in a Recto but I’ll stick with original version STR447.

Truly amazing machine

 

[rarebitusa]

FWIW... went down the power tube rabbit hole a bit further on the 50W Badlander, didn't plan on it... but curiosity got to me. Sometimes Mesas have options that seem more nuanced then a major difference maker. Case in point the LSS and diode/tube rect 30/15/5W, nice to have but subtle. Even the V:90 el34 vs 6L6 was not huge to my ears.

But I have to give it up for the Badlander 50 and it's 6L6 vs el34 option. This tube swap really offers a distinct choice, but it's not just the tubes themselves but how the 20/50W Triode/Pentode choice along with the Bold/Variac mode play into it. Might as well throw in speaker choice as well. These combinations are worthwhile exploring. Also the fact that physically swapping just the 2 power tubes is pretty convenient.

Anyway... it's back to the el34s for the time being with 50W / Variac / MC-90. Getting a good balance of cleans with clarity / chime along with the heavier settings. But I've always got a set of STR-440s with me in case I feel like swapping back.

 

[spawnofthesith2]

Still need to try popping the EL34s back in. It's interesting, for such a straight forward amp thats super easy to get going with a great sound, I've still found myself tweaking immensely every time I plug into it

 

[rarebitusa]

Still need to try popping the EL34s back in. It's interesting, for such a straight forward amp thats super easy to get going with a great sound, I've still found myself tweaking immensely every time I plug into it

Man you ain't kidding bout that.... can't go wrong with the 6L6s either.

 

[spawnofthesith2]

Man you ain't kidding bout that.... can't go wrong with the 6L6s either.

Well ****, tonight was really cooking. Just going to town with my LP. Everything was sounding amazing. Coming to terms with the cleans having a little grit to them (I mean I got this amp for something different, not to sound just like my marks right? Lol)

Just was having a blast loving everything… then suddenly, footswitch is dead?? Ugh. Hopefully it is just the footswitch, glad the only boogie I’m having a problem with is the one under warranty lol

Was just thinking “man was originally planning on bringing the IV out for next gig (first time it would be out since headshell conversion) but now I’m thinking BAD”




Guess I’ll contact Mesa..


EDIT: see post below, I’m just stupid lol

 

[spawnofthesith2]

UPDATE; psyche!!! I’m literally just an idiot and have been enjoying too many beers tonight, accidentally clipped the FS switch with my fat fingers while I was going back and forth between crunch and crush


BAD reigning supreme right now

 

[rarebitusa]

UPDATE; psyche!!! I’m literally just an idiot and have been enjoying too many beers tonight, accidentally clipped the FS switch with my fat fingers while I was going back and forth between crunch and crush


BAD reigning supreme right now

Glad that was all it was. TBH been there, done that LOL

Coming to terms with the cleans having a little grit to them

Yea me as well.

We rehearsed tonight... it was the el34s, 50W / Variac / MC-90 1x12. Sat perfectly in the mix with the keys. Going to stick with this setup for now.

 

[bandit2013]

Love the BAD on clean with the gain pushed. Really cool sound. Actually, it has more gain than the Mark VII in clean or fat with the gain pushed. Even though it may share some common DNA with the Mark VII, it still sits in a class of its own. The crunch and crush are still different but similar in some respects. Crunch has a bit more character and Crush sort of sits between the IIC+ and IV modes of the Mark VII. Difference in tone stack? Is it the Class AB? Mesa did a fine job on this creation as it retains the clarity and note detail as the JP2C but yet can rival the Mark VII in gain structure. Best of all, it runs the 7-strings with ease. Pair one up with the JP2C or the Mark VII and . Just by itself it runs very well in the mix or alone with the snare drum rattling in the background (have to remember to disengage the snare wires when not playing the drums). The BAD is the first pick during our jam sessions. Much easier to control at various volume settings at full power than the Mark VII.

 

[spawnofthesith2]

Fired up the BAD 50 for the first time in a minute tonight… after playing for a bit I decided to cool down and switch back to El34s and then jammed a bit more

I dunno, I feel like I’m still just a bit “on the fence” with this amp as a whole… I’m not totally sure if that’s rooted in reality or I’m just so into Mark tones and that’s why I’m struggling or what lol.

For as simple as this amp is to dial in I am still having a hard time finding myself settling on any settings. Somehow it’s confounding me more than any mark ever could


I feel like I have a love hate relationship with where it’s mid range site….. it has a really gnarly and aggressive metallic CHONK that I absolutely love, but then at the same time there’s also just something wonky there


And I guess I’m mainly talking about high gain rhythms here, I will say I do find solo tones to just be magnificent, I’d say that’s where I’m finding it shining the most for me

Still a bit of an overall head scratcher for me

 

[rarebitusa]

I feel like I have a love hate relationship with where it’s mid range site….. it has a really gnarly and aggressive metallic CHONK that I absolutely love, but then at the same time there’s also just something wonky there

So are you looking for a bit more beef in the lower mid-range, that deeper saturation? If so I get it, the Marks are like that. FWIW I totally dig the BAD but it's just not a Mark

 

[spawnofthesith2]

So are you looking for a bit more beef in the lower mid-range, that deeper saturation? If so I get it, the Marks are like that. FWIW I totally dig the BAD but it's just not a Mark

Honestly I probably just need to reset a little bit, and more importantly spend more time with it with the band, and at proper cranked volumes (not attenuated)

I can be neurotic at times, my 5153 nearly got sold recently but I walked that back quickly lol.

I guess when certain amps just instantly deliver THE SOUND (aka any mark series lol) that’s ultimately in my head going to other things can be challenging

Perhaps I just need to find the space where the BAD fits in better for me… I have a 70s deluxe reverb that you might guess doesn’t tick all the boxes for “my idealized sound” either and yet, still love it and it still sees the stage a few times a year for another band I fill in for periodically lol

 

[rarebitusa]

I can be neurotic at times,

bro it's gear right??? That gives you free reign LOL

FWIW the BAD hasn't made me forget my Marks either. It's a different beast for sure. For my live situation it just sits perfectly in the band mix, best with the el34s. At the studio I am drawn to the V:90.

 

[Doug Doppler]

Hey guys and gals. Jumping in after reading back a few, but not all of the posts. I LOVED my BAD 50 Combo I bought a second one, and then at @rarebitusa know, I also picked up a BAD 25 head. @spawnofthesith2 I've got two GEQs that I'm running in the loop to 'Mark-ify' my combos and it may be the thing you're looking for. They're a bit of a chase to acquire but well worth it