Amp Choice Help, Tone Needed- 80's Metal & More

[metal_cd]

Tried a search to see if this was posted already but the searches returned a ton of results and not too many with what I was looking for. So, excuse this post if it is a topic that is beat to death.

I am a child of the 80's and really got into the 80's hair band metal. I wanted badly to learn to play and sound like the guitar gods I was hearing. So I purchased an average guitar, an average amp, and some of the needed Boss pedals. I had tried for a bit but I think I lost interest because I wasn't sounding anywhere near what I wanted to sound like. Lets forget that, yes, I had minimal experience... I only had taken some folk guitar lessons prior to that. But, I just wasn't digging the sound/tone.
Stuck the guitar in the closet, and eventually sold it.
I have more time now, more money, and wanted to see about getting back into the pursuit of this dream. I need to acheive the tone I liked from the 80's hair metal bands so this doesn't end up in the closet again. ...but, I would also like to be able to acheive some of the sounds I hear in stuff like Nickelback, Godsmack, and even some of the softer bands so the amp would have to be a bit flexible as well. Additionally, I would like to be able to (if/when I get good enough) record easly from the amp. The setting is a basement rec room so the amp could be a little loud if needed without a problem.
Any input from you guys would be appreciated.
thank you

 

[Platypus]

A MarkIV or a Stiletto sound like they'd be up your alley.. as far as Nickelback/Godsmack, you can't get recto-esque tones with either of those two.

 

[Russ]

For 80's hair metal there is no real choice. You really need a Marshall. It has to do with the not only the sound but also the feel. A 2203, 2004, 2205, or 2210 will do if you get a JCM800. You could do it with the same 2203 or 2204 in JMP trim or even with a metal face 4 input type amp. Granted the latter will be really really loud. Figure you will throw some effects on top to really finish off the sound. Again these amps will not get you modern sounds and neither will their 900 or 2000 brethren.

Now if you want a Mesa and you want to do modern you need a Rectifier. If you still want to do 80's hair then you need to make that happen via pedals through a clean channel. For this reason, I would say Roadster or RoadKing depending upon your wallet. This should cover all your ground. Sure a Mark series amp is killer but it doesn't do the bottom that you get from a Rec. Rec's are nice but you don't get the cleans or sweetness and tightness of a Mark. The exceptions to the Rec lacking cleans are the Roadster and Roadking. Check those out.

 

[siggy14]

Now if you really want my two cents, since you are a newbie right now and mostly going to be doing basement playing and recording. Pick yourself up a POD 2.0, some 1/4 jack to RCA adapters from radio shack and feed the pod into a home stereo system or computer system with good speakers.

Not only do you get all the amp models, but you also get all the effects etc... I can nail any 80's tone and any rec tone with it. Sounds great for bedroom playing and recording. But if you plan to play live some day then get ready to buy some real equiptment down the road, the PODS are great for recording and bedroom/basement playing, but not the greatest for live situation.

Now for real tube equiptment i suggest.

For the 80's stuff, pick yourself up a ADA MP1 preamp and a tube power amp. You can get all this for about $1000 or less.

For the recto tone, get a recto, dual, or triple, i suggest a 2 channel, but 3 channels are good too.

 

[siggy14]

PS- I suggested the POD 2.0 for a reason. They come pretty much sounding good out of the box with very little tweaking. You can get them used between $100 and $150 and about $100 for the floor board. And with all the effects you will be happy has hell with your 80's tone.

They also have a new pod 2.0 live, I am not sure if it sounds as good as the old discontinued pod 2.0's, but if it does I would go with one of those.

 

[Elpelotero]

80's tones:
--marshall--jcm800
--mesa--stilletto or mark4

modern tones:
--mesa rectifier

or, you can go with the pod, and save a lot of money, and your ears! but the tone won't be as juicy as any of the above amps.

 

[siggy14]

Actually at lower volumes the pod will sound better, for basement playing etc..

Dont get me wrong, I love my recto's, but honestly at lower volume the pod sounds **** good.

And honestly, 95% of musicians would not be able to tell the difference if you are playing through a POD or a real recto. I know I have played through both, yes there are little things tube amps do that a pod cant, but they are very limited and half the people do not even know what you are talking about.

80's tones:
--marshall--jcm800
--mesa--stilletto or mark4

modern tones:
--mesa rectifier

or, you can go with the pod, and save a lot of money, and your ears! but the tone won't be as juicy as any of the above amps.

 

[jbird]

I'd say the quintessential amp to take you from yesteryear to tomorrow would be the Roadking! No doubt about it, it will grow with you!

 

[TheRazMeister]

The key really is at lower volumes. My Tonelab is wonderful when noodling at home or practising at moderate levels. It gets completely lost when I turn it up unless I blast whatever power amp I'm going through. The other thing is that the dynamics of playing a tube amp come alive when playing live...POD's and Tonelabs disappear...the dynamics are just not there.

Actually at lower volumes the pod will sound better, for basement playing etc..

Dont get me wrong, I love my recto's, but honestly at lower volume the pod sounds **** good.

And honestly, 95% of musicians would not be able to tell the difference if you are playing through a POD or a real recto. I know I have played through both, yes there are little things tube amps do that a pod cant, but they are very limited and half the people do not even know what you are talking about.

80's tones:
--marshall--jcm800
--mesa--stilletto or mark4

modern tones:
--mesa rectifier

or, you can go with the pod, and save a lot of money, and your ears! but the tone won't be as juicy as any of the above amps.

 

[TheRazMeister]

The 80's sound is less about what amp but what the overall feel of the sound is. I gigged through that period and wanted to re-create that sound when I went amp shopping...I bought a Rectoverb

With my ROV I dial in plenty of mids, add a delay and make sure my saturation is at a point where the notes are defined, yet sing.

Your fingers will create most of the sound...you can't "buy" the 80's

 

[Melodyman]

You can do 80's metal easily with a Mark IV 8)

 

[siggy14]

See I love when people say that, because it is not always true. Now I am no noobie, been playing guitar for 22 years and yes I did the whole 80's thing.

With that being said, for awhile I saw alot of bands that where using a POD Pro or flextone II going directly to the PA system and they sounded great. You would have never guessed they were using a POD Pro/Flextone if you couldnt see it on stage.

The dynamics, the tone, the feel all sounded great. Solid states downfall is when you turn it up it starts to sound like crap, well if you have a 5000 watt PA sytem and are only using 2000 watts you will never hit that point of it sounding bad. Headroom is the key, and with solid state headroom is cheap.

Yes there are certain little dynamics that Solid state cant reproduce, but like i said 95% of musicians will not even know what the hell you are talking about.

The reason Line 6 hasnt gone further then it is, would be because of the people that put it down and make you feel inferior for playing it. That whole tube snobby thing going on makes people think they shouldnt play it which is a shame.

The key really is at lower volumes. My Tonelab is wonderful when noodling at home or practising at moderate levels. It gets completely lost when I turn it up unless I blast whatever power amp I'm going through. The other thing is that the dynamics of playing a tube amp come alive when playing live...POD's and Tonelabs disappear...the dynamics are just not there.

Actually at lower volumes the pod will sound better, for basement playing etc..

Dont get me wrong, I love my recto's, but honestly at lower volume the pod sounds **** good.

And honestly, 95% of musicians would not be able to tell the difference if you are playing through a POD or a real recto. I know I have played through both, yes there are little things tube amps do that a pod cant, but they are very limited and half the people do not even know what you are talking about.

80's tones:
--marshall--jcm800
--mesa--stilletto or mark4

modern tones:
--mesa rectifier

or, you can go with the pod, and save a lot of money, and your ears! but the tone won't be as juicy as any of the above amps.

 

[Daxman73]

You know, there's a funny point about this thread...The Dual Recto's were originally geared toward the "80's" sound when they were first brought out...That's the market Randall was shooting for...Now, how much truth to that is yet to be proven, but I thought I'd bring it up...For my two cents, I'd get a Mark IV and I play in an 80's HAIR metal tribute act, HAIR FORCE ONE...It will do just nicely.

 

[Russ]

Yeah, Mark IV's do 80's nicely. I am getting ready to trade my 800 for something else because I have enough Marshall in my JMP and can get the rest of what i used the 800 for with my Mark IV.

 

[mlockett]

Yeah, Mark IV's do 80's nicely. I am getting ready to trade my 800 for something else because I have enough Marshall in my JMP and can get the rest of what i used the 800 for with my Mark IV.

Would a JMP pre thru a recto power amp (skip the recto preamp) sound like a real Marshall? ...or close?

 

[Russ]

Not really. I couldn't get my JMP-1 to sound organic enough. I tried for years and ended up selling it and going back to a JMP head. There's nothing like playing an old JMP head. I mean you could probably get some tones that would assimilate a Marshall to some degree but I wouldn't base a rig on a JMP-1. Those that have great success using them tend to be well processed or have full production. To me, the thing just never really felt like an amp. It always had this synthetic quality to it. I found some tones passable but for the most part though it is versatile it never quite excelled at anything and I ran it through the gamut of Marshall tube power amps trying to improve the tone. The old JMP heads are pretty nice because you just dial a little this and that and have good organic tone. It is hard to get good sound when your controls are using parameters that have set increments within their range like with the JMP-1. I think that this is where some of the problem lies with the JMP-1. I liked the control in the 9001 better than the JMP-1 because of the controls with the real potentiometer style knobs.

 

[mlockett]

Yeah... it doesn't surprise me since they run about $1,300 new, but sell on ebay for $400 - $500.

 

[Russ]

Never buy them new. I got mine for $300 in the recycler when I got mine.

 

[metal_cd]

Wow, thanks for all the great input. Was away for a few days and thought I would check and see what the responses were. Wasn't expecting much attention to the newbie. Thank you for taking the time to give me some good feedback on this.

Just a recap; I am getting back into guitar playing and was looking for the best amp to get me some of that perfect 80's metal tone and possibly some of the newer modern hard rock tone as well.

From your responses it would seem that...
for 80's metal tone;
Marshall JCM800
Mesa Mark IV
would be best.

If I wanted to go with Marshall ...and I have heard this from a local guitar shop... I would definitely have to get me an old amp from the 80's as the newer ones just don't sound as good? Also, this would include the cabinet to be needing the older ('Celestion') speakers as the newer ones, again, do not sound as good?
Does this sound to be true for the JCM800 and the speakers?
I just don't know if I want to mess around trying to find something decent from that long ago. I don't want to get someones beat up crap that they possibly have even popped open and tried to modify.

If I wanted to get something new it would seem that a Mesa Mark IV would be a good choice as I believe about 5 of you had recommended it.

I would start with an 80's sounding amp as that is my love, but if/when I would get good it would seem that to do the modern tone correctly a different amp would be needed and it appears from your responses there is no choice, must be;
Mesa Rectifier
Should it be a dual or triple? The difference being...?

A couple of you also mentioned the RoadKing as something that might do both old and new. That may be a consideration.

Another consideration may also be this POD 2.0. Have never heard of it. Have no idea what it is about, but if it can reproduce all these tones relatively well for a hundred bucks it may just be worth it to have some fun with and see what it can do. I would not expect perfection, but who knows, maybe close??
I just happen to have an old rack mount Peavey PA amp(deca528) that I could use. Would just need a speaker cabinet(s).
Siggy14, would the voltage be ok to just use adapters to go into a home stereo?

If I would ever want to record some stuff it would seem the POD 2.0 would be easy enough, but with an amp would using a mic be best or do they have decent outputs on those for that?

 

[flieger67]

I, too, am a fan of the '80's tones, being in high school and college during that time. After reading this informative and interesting thread, I thought I'd add a few thoughts for you, metal_cd.

1) It's important to check any of these suggested amps out in person, if at all possible. Some people hear things differently and certainly, some people can get some tones out of some amps that others can't.

2) As for the Marshalls, there can be fairly significant design changes between models. For instance, the JCM 900's never sounded like the JCM 800's. Likewise, a cranked original Plexi sounds a lot different than a TSL.

3) Depending on the guitarists that you like from the '80's, they may have used all sorts of Marshalls, Randalls, Boogies (think Night Ranger and Steve Lukather) and even things like Rockmans. And even those that did use Marshalls may have used modified Marshalls. For instance, if you like George Lynch, he used the famed "#39" from SIR that was an early '70's Super Tremolo modded by Tim Caswell on some of the Dokken records. And lots of guys ran distortion pedals into their amps, so you might need to consider adding one of those, too. The point to this "point" being that there may be a lot more to some tones that you like than just a stock amp, Marshall or otherwise.

4) In addition to the other amps suggested, I'd recommend seeing if you can find a Rivera M/S-series amp. Rivera has a factory demo setting called "Plexi" or "Cranked Plexi" that really seems to get fairly close to a tone that I think you might like.


Good luck with your tone search.