About to jump ship

[LPJunky]

Well, I don't want to appear too pessimistic for new comers or potential owners but after two years I realize that just maybe I'm not a Mark type of guy. I had a couple of issues. I changed tubes, speakers, etc.. Still can't get the sound in my head. Channel 3 was never the high gain WITH sustain that I was looking for. Last nigth at rehearsal we painstakingly balanced the sound for each instrument to discover later on that my volume was unstable. Sure I will do some more tests but for a few month now I've been looking at the Marshall JVM410H. I've never played with a Marshall but on paper it looks good and the reviews are all very positive. Any comments or experience you want to share?

Thanks

 

[phyrexia]

Was it your volume or other equipment? You can't expect any tube amp to have the hardcore reliability like that. Your speakers will change in volume over the course of an evening because they get hot. Everything is fluid. 'Later on' in the evening all of your ears have been blasted by drums and amps and things will sound different as well.

That said if you don't like the sound of the amp then you don't like the sound of the amp. But I think it would take less time than two years to figure that out. Two years in, I love my V more than ever.

The JVM is a pretty cool amp. Don't expect a Marshall to be more reliable than a Boogie, though.

 

[Rkorn]

Sustain??
What's your guitar? If it's a crap like mine... and if it is, try it with a GOOD guitar! It makes a whole difference!

 

[Gunnski]

I agree that sound levels will change over a the course of a practice or show because your ears get used to some frequencies more than others or tubes/speakers starting warming up...but I've never had an issue with my Mark V drifting in volume that much that it significantly changed its mix in the overall sound. I do understand what you're saying about not having a high gain sound with extremely long sustain. That's not what the Mark is really set up to do (Mark IV modes comes the closest). An overdrive will get you there though. I also own a JVM and it will probably be more up your alley. Channels 3 and 4 on the orange or red modes are crazy high gain sustain no matter where you set the gain knob. That could be good or bad depending on your perspective. The red mode is so high gain that you will probably have feedback at any gain level is you don't use a noise gate. The Mark V just can't compete with that style of high gain. The JVM does have some good clean and mid-gain sounds too. I originally owned my JVM and bought the Mark V later on. It did take a while to get used to the feel of playing thru the Mark V but I prefer it more now because it forces me to play much more precisely to get the right tone or amount of sustain/feedback from a note (not that I'm a particularly amazing guitarist anyway but I do enjoy the challenge...kind of like a bitchy girlfriend that is just too hot to dump). But, if you've played yours for a couple years and still don't like it, then it probably isn't the amp for you. The JVM will probably be more up your alley and as far as reliability goes, neither one has ever failed me. The one thing that the JVM is clearly better for is channel switching...everything is midi-compatible and you can switch through all 12 modes on the amp without flicking knobs on the amp. Plus, there is no popping noise when you change channels. Hope this helps...

 

[LPJunky]

Last night was just the straw that broke the camel's back. Boogie's have 5 year warranty so they shure are good gears. I lost my amp for a few weeks at one point because they had to replace a relay somewhere which affected the volume of all channels may be that is it again to a lesser degree. I will probable bite the bullet and change the tubes again.

It's true that all sound dynamic during the course of an evening but ... clicking the boost should always produce the same effect and last night it didn't that's why I am a bit flustered. And yes I play with good guitars after investing more than 2K$ in an amp you have to plug something decent.

"Gunnski" what do you use as an overdrive to get to the high gain/sustain? I do like most of the Mark it's just missing a few things sound wise for me. I get a miniamp gizmo so it took care of that.

I thought I would never change amp again and yet. It's probably a simple combination of bad luck, obsesion and GAS.

Well I'll sleep on it.

 

[phyrexia]

I've never had a want for more sustain but I'd use a compressor before an overdrive with this amp.

 

[Gunnski]

Actually, a compressor is a really good idea too. If you like the way the Mark V gain tone is, a compressor will get your more sustain without changing the tone too much. I personally use a TC Electronic Vintage Overdrive because it's a really light overdrive so it just adds a touch of flavor to the tone but mostly adds sustain. I've heard of other people using clean boosts like the Lehle Sunday Driver or the BBE Boosta Grande so there really are a ton of options out there depending on how much you want to change the tone.

 

[SteveO]

Voltage fluctuations at the outlet can goof with tube amps, too. If you guys were running a lot of gear off of the same circuit, the tube amps will be the first to react if the power is unstable.

 

[screamingdaisy]

"Gunnski" what do you use as an overdrive to get to the high gain/sustain? I do like most of the Mark it's just missing a few things sound wise for me. I get a miniamp gizmo so it took care of that.

I keep a Fulltone Fulldrive 2 on my board in the event that I'm not getting the sustain I want/need for a particular solo. I run it so that it actually produces a bit of a volume cut, but when stacked with the amp's own gain it adds smoother compression than I could get if I boosted the volume.

I've also used a compressor as mentioned above and it works extremely well. It's perfect if you already like your lead tone and simply want more sustain. I typically like using the FD2 more as it provides a mid boost in addition to the added compression.

 

[LPJunky]

All excellent points and suggestions. My keyboard player mentioned exactly that, that the outlet power could be wacked somehow. Especially since I share the circuit with the bass player and may be some other stuff. Next time we plan to swap around the connections. I just remember that I do have a Carl Martin Plexitone pedal. That could be used for some added gain. The only compressor I have is the one in a GT-10 which I don't think is very good (I don't have much experience with compressors in general). It does increase the noise level quite a bit. BUT I bought a few week ago an ISP G-String Decimator that IS one good noise suppressor. When setup conservatively it does not affect tone or note's tailing off.

By the way, I do like the Mark tone, I like aggressive distortion with rumble without to much fizz (or high frequencies) but I'm sort of short on the singing sustain. I guess I have enough to experiment for now.

Thanks

 

[fjk1138]

Well, I don't want to appear too pessimistic for new comers or potential owners but after two years I realize that just maybe I'm not a Mark type of guy. I had a couple of issues. I changed tubes, speakers, etc.. .Sure I will do some more tests but for a few month now I've been looking at the Marshall JVM410H. I've never played with a Marshall but on paper it looks good and the reviews are all very positive. Any comments or experience you want to share?

I too am considering the JVM, not only because it sounds like a great amp but also because I am now on my 2nd Mesa head in less than 1 year, and this is the 2nd one where I've had a problem but the techs are telling me there's no issue with it. I am not sure how Marshall will compare in terms of quality, but I really like the tone of the JVM regardless.

 

[rocknroll9225]

well... i own a Mark V and a JVM. i realize that we might not have the same exact taste in tone, but i can't stress enough how much better the Mark V is IMO. don't get me wrong - i love my JVM and have no plans of selling it anytime soon - but if i were in a money crunch the JVM would be long gone before i even thought about getting rid of the mark. if the mark tone isn't for you, then i guess it's just not for you. but i honestly believe that going from mark v to jvm would be a downgrade. i personally havent had any problems getting gobs of sustain from my V. i would agree though that a compressor or light OD pedal might be a good way to put it over the edge, even though i've never felt the need.

it's true that the JVM does have absolutely beyond ridiculous amounts of gain on the OD red modes, pretty much regardless of where the gain knob's set. i normally run the gain at around 11 o'clock on OD2 red (which is still PLENTY saturated) to reduce noise and retain dynamics. due to all this gain, it is also true that the higher gain modes are pretty much unusable without a noise gate once you crank them up.

i had the JVM before i got the V, and i upgraded mostly because i felt the high gain rhythm sounds lacking. OD2 in general sounds way too scooped no matter where the mid knob is set, which translates to sounding very thin even though it has so much gain and bass in its inherent voicing. OD1, on the other and, is great for leads but not scooped enough sounding for high gain rhythm (IMO). if singing leads are what you want though, the JVM will deliver it in spades. comparing the lead tones of the 2 amps, neither is really better for me, theyre just different.

the cleans on the JVM are also great, but not even close to as great as the Mark V cleans. same with the reverb. both sound very 3D on the V, but the marshall's sound kind of flat and just "OK" next to the boogie.

the one thing that bugs me the most about the JVM is how unresponsive the knobs are. no matter where the knobs are set, you just get very slight variations of the same sound; on the Mark V, cranking just one knob (or slider) one way or the other will drastically alter your tone. for example, even with the treble and presence cranked, i just cant dial in a bright enough tone in for my tastes on OD2, and that channel always sounds scooped to my ears even with the mid knob near dimed. it's true that the JVM does give you 12 modes at your feet, but theyre all more or less locked into what theyre "supposed to" sound like, and a couple of them overlap. the 3 channels on the Mark V is enough for me.

since i've gotten my Mark V 4 months ago, it's replaced my JVM as my "go to" amp. when i go to practice/jam/rehearse/write/record/whatever i plug into my Mark V, but i like to keep the JVM around for more options and to have something else to plug into when i want a break from the boogie. after the honeymoon with the V ended, i've started to plug into the JVM more, and every time i do, i plug into the V afterwards and i just feel at home again. all i'll say is that if you are seriously considering the switch, i'd think about it long and hard. it may even end up being better for YOU than the V, and it might not.

it probably seems like i'm badmouthing my own amp a lot but that's only cause i'm comparing it to the Mark V :lol:

 

[gag halfrunt]

The very first cause for a lack of sustain is usually the guitar's setup, ime.

Even a high end guitar can and will have these issues (especially if you like low action). Sometimes it's not even that obvious when you look at it. But you have to remember that when you pluck the strings, they don't just vibrate side to side (parallel to the fretboard). The orientation of oscillation changes as the note decays. If the action is set too low, or if you have any unevenness to your frets, or if there is not quite enough relief in the neck, your sustain will suffer.

Also, remember that your neck changes throughout the year as the local humidity increases and decreases. There is usually more in the summer and less in the winter, for the northern hemisphere, but it can even change daily. Everyone's guitars are going through this seasonal change. Some particular pieces of wood will react more than others. It's not specific to brand or even model. The individual piece of wood on the neck will be what matters.

Anyway, I just mention this because often we guitarists look for sustain in amps or pedals, when most of your sustain (and sustain problems) start and end in the guitar.

 

[Vogelsong]

Best compressor on the market.

http://whirlwindusa.com/news/rochester-series-effects-pedals/

It's basically an MXR script logo dyna comp. These pedals are being made by the original founder of MXR back in 71.

I love mine.

 

[thunder100]

I've never had a want for more sustain but I'd use a compressor before an overdrive with this amp.

+ 2 usually a compressor makes a a real long sustain:I use my CMAT MODS Signa comp just for this

Roland

 

[satch4u3]

I went from a JVM to a Mark V. The JVM is great. My fav on that amp was the crunch channel with a boost. It was awesome. The clean channel was nice too. I never used The OD channels tho. I could never get a really good high gain tone out of them. It sounded buzzy. There is a mod that apparently helps with this. The C83 mod. The midi capabilities are great too. That's one thing I really wish the Mark V had. Gizmo anyone? Anyhow, when gigging with the JVM, I found the tone was not very consistent. It might of had something to to with bad power but the Mark V is much more consistent for me.

 

[LPJunky]

Now I see what "rocknroll9225" meant. It was great read before hitting the store. Some great tone in that JVM. Liked the attack and the few Gary Moore songs I tried sounded very good. OD 1 and OD 2 red mode is ... noisy. I know I mentioned a noise gate but ... maybe its fixable. And to top it off I mentioned to the salesman I know that I wanted to try 2 amps and he answered good day because all amps were 15% off!! A JVM410H at 1350$ is hard to resist. But anyway the general quality and authority of a MarkV puts it in his own class I must admit. Soul searching ... searching ... searching. I also tried a Koch Powertone II. That's probably what I would buy bgut at 2000$. Simple, no midi, a few drawbacks but the tone was there. I own a Koch Studiotone. Amazing little wonder.

True. A bad guitar setup will play a big role but in my case its more finding sustain at a rehearsal level. When I gig, the lack of sustain is not as bad really. Will investigate for a good compressor and use it just when needed.

I will definitely try to stay in the family and save the MarkV from Craiglist. Will keep you updated on the saga.

 

[JOEY B.]

Compressor with the already compressed sound of channel 3?????? My vote is for a clean boost out front. I use the Xotic RC Booster with great results as regarding sustain.

 

[satch4u3]

Compressor with the already compressed sound of channel 3?????? My vote is for a clean boost out front. I use the Xotic RC Booster with great results as regarding sustain.

+1 on the clean boost. I am using an MXR Micro Amp set at unity volume and it works great for giving it that little extra something.

 

[Chester]

FWIW, I've sold 2 Marshalls (TSL & VM) because they did not have the refinement, flexibility and quality of sound of the Mesa's I have owned throughout. Good amps, but not great. I don't like buzzing and rattling, and both Marshalls excelled in that department. Been through the same journey with other amps as well, but always kept comming back to the Mesa's in my stable

"My" sound in CH3 on the MKV still eludes me, but I keep tweaking and searching. I know it's in there somewhere, but between Tweed & MK1 + Fulltone FD2 out front, I already get everything I need

It's all in the tweaking, and as I recently found, hard bypassing the FX loop. The difference was incredible, and I've not looked back since ... but CH3 still doesn't give it up for me

Try the Marshall - you need to find out if it's right for you, and it may be. You can come back to Mesa with an open mind if it doesn't work out