6L6 vrs EL34 any tone difference?????

[brianf]

****. I set up my Roadking channel #1 to clean and set the controls to 12:00. I had it running on 2 x 6L6.
I then set up channel #2 so it was a clone of channel #1 but running 2 x EL34.
I had my son record it. I was just playing a nice rhythm pattern over and over again and changing channels on the fly every 15 seconds or so. Did this for about 3 minutes. Sounded the same to me.

I turned up the volume and repeated this again for about another 3 minutes and no noticable tone change. I then flicked the switches so the EL 34's were running on channel #1 and the 6L6 on channel #2.
Damed if I can hear a difference.

We then listed to the recordings and neither of us could tell which was which or if there was any difference. I'll get my son to post the tracks on this thread.

brianf

 

[wildrat666]

I´ve got the master around 12-1oclock and the output on 12 - 1 oclock. you hear the difference on loud settings. a little tighter than 6L6´s

 

[jamme61]

i had a THD univalve and in that amp you can hear a difference. the el34 would get dirty real fast and had more mids and less bottom. the funny thing is I liked the 6l6 a lot more in the univalve but I'm a Marshall el34 guy? I think the more you use the power tubes(higher master setting) that's when you'll start to hear the difference. On the mesa it's getting a lot of the tone from the preamp and only untill you crank the amp will you hear the difference. still I think it will be a slight difference

 

[nathan28]

I have a roadkingII as well, and yes their is a definite difference in the el34's and the 6l6's. To my ears, the el34's have more midrange and break up sooner. The 6l6, has more high sizzle and more low end. In my opinion the best tone the roadking has to offer is when mixing the 6l6's and el34's.

 

[oyster]

I have a roadkingII as well, and yes their is a definite difference in the el34's and the 6l6's. To my ears, the el34's have more midrange and break up sooner. The 6l6, has more high sizzle and more low end. In my opinion the best tone the roadking has to offer is when mixing the 6l6's and el34's.

Yes, and in my experience I would describe the difference as "very pronounced". Like as in, my wife could maybe even tell. :twisted:

 

[jamme61]

I have a roadkingII as well, and yes their is a definite difference in the el34's and the 6l6's. To my ears, the el34's have more midrange and break up sooner. The 6l6, has more high sizzle and more low end. In my opinion the best tone the roadking has to offer is when mixing the 6l6's and el34's.

Yes, and in my experience I would describe the difference as "very pronounced". Like as in, my wife could maybe even tell. :twisted:

It's not going to be pronounced untill you start pushing the power tubes. IMHO

 

[waxnsteel]

Stop kidding yourselves! Crank up any channel with 2 6L6s then turn the knob to 2 EL34s. Not exactly night and day.

I have clips of each channel on my soundclick
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=420709

where I did just that. They were all recorded very loud. In fact, master/solo bypassed, and channel 2 had both gain and volume maxxed.

 

[oyster]

On both my Roadster and my Single Recto, although of course they always sound like a recto, there is a distinct difference in sound AND feel when using different tubes. Yes it is more pronounced when cranking the power tubes but it is still obvious at lower volumes. I've tried many different tubes than just EL34s and 6L6s in these amps (custom ordered 6V6s, E34Ls, KT77s that could safely be used in the recto on EL34 bias setting) and painstakingly studied their differences both live and recorded, they all sound and feel different. It is definitely harder to discern by just listening to an mp3 recording however.

Maybe on your RK it is not as pronounced as on the other recto amps for some reason? Or maybe you just can't hear it yourself, which would be no fault of the amps/tubes? :wink:

 

[waxnsteel]

Didn't listen to the clips, did you?

 

[RoadsterAbuser]

Stop kidding yourselves! Crank up any channel with 2 6L6s then turn the knob to 2 EL34s. Not exactly night and day.

I have clips of each channel on my soundclick
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=420709

where I did just that. They were all recorded very loud. In fact, master/solo bypassed, and channel 2 had both gain and volume maxxed.

There NEVER will be either. People just don't get it that it's the transformer and other electronics that will change the sound of an amp not different tubes. There will be a slight difference because of how quick one breaks up compared to the other but that's about it. Nothing major.

 

[jbird]

IMHO, it's not so much as to having to crank the volume to notice a difference as it is utilizing the tone controls to maximize the potential of each tube type! What's the point of swapping tubes, or switching channels back & forth without adjusting the tone controls to take advantage of each tube type? :roll:

 

[waxnsteel]

IMHO, it's not so much as to having to crank the volume to notice a difference as it is utilizing the tone controls to maximize the potential of each tube type! What's the point of swapping tubes, or switching channels back & forth without adjusting the tone controls to take advantage of each tube type? :roll:

How do you not get that if I change the channel strip (GTMBV) tone controls and play then change the 6L6s to EL34s and play, the amp will sound the same, thus proving that there isn't a significant contribution made by the tubes?

 

[fretmeister]

Thats puzzling, with my Roadster, I've gone through 6l6, 6v6 and now el34, and with each tube swap there was a very distinct difference in tone. re-tweaking the tone controls was an absolute necessity to get a good tone after swapping in different power tubes in my case.

 

[alex1fly]

how do el-34s feel/respond different than the 6l6s? I've been thinking about trying el-34s in my roadster because no matter what i do the high end is a bit harsh and the low end is a bit too big (even with the bass set at zero and the tone knob rolled off)

tubes are pretty pricey though, a little too pricey to "just try it"

 

[Dale B.]

Didn't listen to the clips, did you?

You're introducing about 500 million different variables by resorting to recordings of your amplifier to show that "there aren't any differences" between EL34's and 6L6GC's in your amp. Again, there are way too many variables that can come into play.

Anyway, I'm not too familiar with the Road Kings. I've owned every other variation of the Dual and Triple Rectifier, with exception to the Roadster. I own a massive hoard of NOS Power Tubes, NOS Preamp Tubes, Current Production Power Tubes and Current Production Preamp Tubes. All of my tubes have similar and various ratings.

I remember the first time I swapped from 6L6GC's to EL34's in a Recto. I could tell the differences immediately. I've always heard the differences when swapping power tubes in any amplifier. A lot comes into the playing field to get to the end result.

Again, I'm not too familiar with the Road Kings. I know they have a different Output Transformer. That definitely could have a lot to do with the reason you're not hearing a "big" difference between these two tube types.

On the other hand, a very subtle difference with a tube swap is a big difference to me. I can hear it and feel it when I'm playing the guitar. Speakers changes cause greater differences than tube swaps.

I'm not calling you out or anything, but you, nor anyone else on this board, are not in a position to tell anyone to stop kidding themselves in relation to this subject. It's too subjective and there are too many variables.

 

[waxnsteel]

You're one of the first to speak respectfully. Thanks for that.

But you're way off base to talk about all the variables there supposedly are with the clips I've posted. When each clip was reamped (same performance), the amp didn't move, the mic didn't move, no other knob than the one that selects tube complement changed, other than maybe 30 seconds, I can't see any variables in my instance. I've also posted those clips here and on a few other boards with a poll attached to see if people could tell the difference, and the results look like most are guessing. So in this amp, I'd have to disagree with you. Another amp maybe, I haven't doen a whole lot of power tube type changes in other amps.

Never owned a regular DR or TR, so I have no idea what the difference is. The only thing I really get worked up about is when folks say that putting 6L6s in an amp makes it sound more Fender, or EL34s more Marshall. In a Mesa, it'll still sound just like a mesa. Speaker changes are what I'd call night & day differences, whereas tube changes tend to be very subtle.

The majority of my experiences come from power tube swapping amps - Road King, Blue Angel, and a Budda Dual Stage 30. Of those, IMO, the most dramatic change (though it is still subtle) is with the Blue Angel. It breaks up lower on the dial with 6V6s than EL84s or both(even when properly switching the speaker jack to the proper impedance) a slight mid shift, and a little less top when compared to the other two settings. The Budda and the Road King, I find to be nearly indistinguishable, even when pushed very hard.

As a guy who has experimented with a hoard of NOS tubes, you yourself must know that in a given circuit, you can sometimes find as much difference between two pairs of 6L6s as between a pair of 6L6s and EL34s.

What I'd love to hear would be CLIPS of all of these dramatic changes. It's not hard to not move knobs so we can hear the difference the tubes actually make from tube to tube. If you turn the knobs, of course it'll sound different. If it didn't, you'd take it back, right?

 

[Dale B.]

You're one of the first to speak respectfully. Thanks for that.

But you're way off base to talk about all the variables there supposedly are with the clips I've posted. When each clip was reamped (same performance), the amp didn't move, the mic didn't move, no other knob than the one that selects tube complement changed, other than maybe 30 seconds, I can't see any variables in my instance. I've also posted those clips here and on a few other boards with a poll attached to see if people could tell the difference, and the results look like most are guessing. So in this amp, I'd have to disagree with you. Another amp maybe, I haven't doen a whole lot of power tube type changes in other amps.

Never owned a regular DR or TR, so I have no idea what the difference is. The only thing I really get worked up about is when folks say that putting 6L6s in an amp makes it sound more Fender, or EL34s more Marshall. In a Mesa, it'll still sound just like a mesa. Speaker changes are what I'd call night & day differences, whereas tube changes tend to be very subtle.

The majority of my experiences come from power tube swapping amps - Road King, Blue Angel, and a Budda Dual Stage 30. Of those, IMO, the most dramatic change (though it is still subtle) is with the Blue Angel. It breaks up lower on the dial with 6V6s than EL84s or both(even when properly switching the speaker jack to the proper impedance) a slight mid shift, and a little less top when compared to the other two settings. The Budda and the Road King, I find to be nearly indistinguishable, even when pushed very hard.

As a guy who has experimented with a hoard of NOS tubes, you yourself must know that in a given circuit, you can sometimes find as much difference between two pairs of 6L6s as between a pair of 6L6s and EL34s.

What I'd love to hear would be CLIPS of all of these dramatic changes. It's not hard to not move knobs so we can hear the difference the tubes actually make from tube to tube. If you turn the knobs, of course it'll sound different. If it didn't, you'd take it back, right?

A microphone isn't going to capture the exact sound of the amplifier as the human ear captures it. The microphone can't think and tune into a certain frequency. In the studio, the most one can do is capture a good representation of the amplifier and move on.

As far as the variables in the studio....

The types of mics you used
The types of cables you used
How long were the cables?
What were the cables made of?
The type of mic preamp you used
The recording setup you used
Did you record on tape and convert to digital?
Is your recording setup all digital?
Did you mic the room?
How many mics did you use?
Settings?... (you said you maxed the gain)
Guitar?
Guitar Cables?
Speaker Cables?
What exact type of tubes?
You said you re-amped the clip (supposedly a split dry signal from the original recording)
Did you EQ the signal after recording it?

The list could go on and on and on. It's a Calculus problem at best. I'm nowhere near being way off base. It doesn't matter if you didn't change a thing.

All I'm saying is that it's going to be very tough to capture a subtle change with a sound clip.

I agree to a certain point about the differences when swapping power tube types. In some amplifiers, it isn't as overwhelming as others. It all comes down to the circuit itself. While doing this in all of the Rectos I've owned, there is a difference. In the Diezels I've owned, there is a difference. In the Bogners I've owned, there was a difference within the same power tube type and preamp tube type. There is a difference between a JCM 800 with EL34's and one with KT88's or 6550's. There is a difference in a Naylor Superdrive 60 when swapping from a 6L6GC to the Sovtek 5881 (if you want to call it a 5881).

Anyway, that's my "buck 'o' five".

Take Care,




Dale