Your approach to dialling in the 90W

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Rick_Sanchez

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Hey all I'm wondering how each of you approaches dialling in the amp.

I have to admit I'm guilty of mostly using John Petrucci's settings and a few others from the settings thread, I'm now more curious in a process to dial in other sounds and more importantly, get back to my sound without relying on pictures or stickers.

Do you set everything at noon and start with a particular knob?
Do you set everything at zero and go from there? Gain, then Treble then...etc..the manual speaks so much about the power of these knobs
Do you do the graphic EQ first then go back to the knobs, do you start with the eq in a V or have it flat?
Do you do a couple of knobs then the graphic eq then do the rest?
Etc.. etc...

Admittedly this is more than I've ever thought about dialling in an amp before, but before this I had simpler amps. I'm trying to come up with something repeatable that you can sit down with any channel and go through to get you somewhere good.
 
When I'm fiddling around to explore things I tend to use the channel knobs first and the EQ last, if at all. I've found that some knobs may not have much of an effect, depending on how the other knobs are set. This seems to be the "voodoo" of the Mark V, that one thing will affect another. For example, gain will affect the response of the treble and bass knobs. I'm still loving the amp after 10 years!
 
It took me a good few years to unlock the really good tones on my V/90W. (And now, after 10+ years of service, its channel 3 started acting up and it's been sent for repair. Oh well. But that's another topic.)

I got great tones on channel 1 pretty easily. Channel 2, too, with the help of Svetlana EL34s, although I should point out that the sounds I thought were great at home typically didn't sound as great in a band mix. You need to dial a bit differently there.

Channel 3 was the puzzle. I got quite fine (but not earthshaking) tones at home, but disappointing ones in a band mix. So I preferred to take one of my other amps there if high gain was needed. That is, I did...until I finally solved the Mark V puzzle.

The key, for me, was understanding that you literally need to dial with your ears, not with your eyes. Yes, I know it's a worn cliche on this board but believe me, it's true! Don't look at the knobs or the sliders, believe what your ears tell you!

Here are some specific pointers that made a world of difference to me. They may work for you, too. Or YMMV.
- The Treble pot is actually a treble booster. To unlock the perfect crunch/distortion, you need to use it in conjunction with the Gain pot. There is no way around this. You can't just ignore the Treble pot and dime the Gain pot and expect to get the best distortion out of your Mark V. (Also, be cautious with the Bass pot. Since it is, similarly, a bass booster, it just adds mush to your distortion as you turn it up.)
- I always use 90W. Even at home, and relatively low volumes. It just packs more oomph, gives you a fatter and fuller sound.
- I choose Pentode for channel 3. Again, more oomph. Thicker tone, more thump.

HTH.
 
LesPaul70 said:
Channel 3 was the puzzle. I got quite fine (but not earthshaking) tones at home, but disappointing ones in a band mix. So I preferred to take one of my other amps there if high gain was needed. That is, I did...until I finally solved the Mark V puzzle.

I have this exact problem right now. I get a decent (not earthshaking) tone on my own. Then some of my buddies came to jam, and my amp just got lost, especially channel 3...

I'm finding MK4 mode lacking a huge amount of low end. Like when I switch from Mk4 to channel 2-Crunch, my Crunch channel sounds way beefier.

How can get the same beefy low end of that Crunch channel with the gain and sustain of MK4 mode?
 
To avoid getting lost in the band mix, be sure that you do not scoop too aggressively. If you eat your middle frequencies, you will not cut through. But you probably knew this already.

Also, I have found that EL-34 tubes help. They give you more midrange presence and crunch.

Beyond that (and the pointers in my earlier post), the best advice I can give is to use your ears. Really. Forget everything you read or how you are supposed to dial your amp or how to nail this or that sound. Just close your eyes, flick the switches, turn the knobs, move the sliders and listen. This may take you somewhere you never expected to be!
For me, the biggest surprise was that I ended up using the Extreme mode (a.k.a. the REAL Mk IV mode :twisted: ) on channel 3. I never expected that! But it works really well in a band. It is crushing heavy and and, especially with EL-34s, stands out in the mix.
 
My previous amp was Mark III, so it did not take long to get good sounds from Mark V 90 W. Doug West's video with 4x12 closed back V30was helpful. But my cabinet is three quarter 4xC90. So my settings must have less presence but more bass than Doug West's settings. I have tried every possible settings! I have studied the manual a lot and without the manual you cannot really find the tones you like.

Actually my bands' other guitarist has brand new Boss Super Overdrive and Boss Metal Zone. Just about any settings of channel 2 and channel 3 sound better than his dirty tones! Luckily his clean tone is great from all tube amp.
 
Rick_Sanchez said:
Hey all I'm wondering how each of you approaches dialling in the amp.

I have to admit I'm guilty of mostly using John Petrucci's settings and a few others from the settings thread, I'm now more curious in a process to dial in other sounds and more importantly, get back to my sound without relying on pictures or stickers.

Do you set everything at noon and start with a particular knob?
Do you set everything at zero and go from there? Gain, then Treble then...etc..the manual speaks so much about the power of these knobs
Do you do the graphic EQ first then go back to the knobs, do you start with the eq in a V or have it flat?
Do you do a couple of knobs then the graphic eq then do the rest?
Etc.. etc...

Admittedly this is more than I've ever thought about dialling in an amp before, but before this I had simpler amps. I'm trying to come up with something repeatable that you can sit down with any channel and go through to get you somewhere good.

ahhh my approach on Mark V, and all mesa amps, is to read the manual - twice.
For you I recommend you read it x3 8)
 
I pull out the manual and browse through it every couple years or so. Always something new to find or…something that I forgot about (the more likely scenario).
 
Having had all three Mark V's I can express my sympathy to your dialing challenges. On The Gear Page site a poster named dead astronaut posted the following (that I agree with). He is talking about the 5/25 but it applies to the 90W as well. I don't think he will me mind me re-posting it here.
---------------------------------------------------------------

From: DeadAstronaut on The Gear Page discussing dialing in a Mark V/25

PART 1: THE KNOBS
People have expressed this various ways, and to me, the most helpful explanation is to say that the knobs give you the amount and texture of your gain, whereas the graphic EQ cuts or boosts frequency bands in the amp's overall output. You might think of the preamp EQ section as a very powerful "shape" or "contour" control.
Gain: Like Mesa says, we're not just looking at raw gain quotient here, we're also dealing with a very powerful tone-shaping tool that moves from the brightness of a cranked BF/SF Fender through a medium-bright Tweedy crunch and all the way up to the mega-high-gain saturation that made Boogies famous. Ideally, you should set Gain with a pretty clear idea of the general tonal character you want. Heavy saturation, in my experience (and not just the V:25 combo), sets in around 2:00. I like it between 3:00 and 4:00, depending on the guitar, the part, etc.
You also don't want or need to turn Gain all the way up. Past about 4:30, it mostly adds noise, and you're in danger of turning some preamp tubes microphonic.
Treble: Here's one crucial thing about Mesa/Boogie EQ, and not just on the Marks – whichever knob/slider you set highest determines the dominant character of your tone, at least in that section of the EQ, and the other controls recede. Cranking the Mid knob up, for example, does a number of things other than increasing the midrange. It'll limit the effectiveness of the Treble and Bass knobs, and it'll add an extra band of cutting high mid frequencies near the top of the dial. Set knobs, therefore, not just each to itself, but with keen attention to the ratio between them.
The Treble knob acts, up to a certain point, as a kind of gate on the Gain knob, so you don't want to crank Gain and then cut Treble. (For example: if you want a big, muffled, doomy/stoner tone, you'd want to keep Treble reasonably high to get all the gain and then crank your Bass knob.) I personally find that Treble around 1:00/1:15 works very well. Also, like Gain, be careful about cranking Treble too high – maxed out settings at high volume can make your tubes start complaining.
Mid: Perhaps this isn't the case on other Boogie Marks, but on the V:25, the Mid knob isn't the rich, creamy kind – it's much more about cut, body, presence, and ability to hold your own in the mix. Lots of people scoop it, both here and in the GEQ; I hate that sound and think Mid right around 12:00, or just a touch above, works really well on most Mesa/Boogies. As aforementioned, Mid will also introduce some very cutting high-mid frequencies as you crank it past 2:00 or so, and those come with a corresponding increase in both volume and background nois.
Bass: Ah, the most controversial knob on Boogies. Consensus wisdom will tell you to keep it around 9:00 and probably even lower it from there. If you want that crazy-tight, metal-rhythm, kick-in-the-chest IIC+ sound, then yes, drop it as low as you like. If, however, you're looking for a thicker, richer, more liquid tone and don't especially need extreme tightness in the bass end, don't let anyone tell you where to set this control. For my needs (I'm aiming for a heavily saturated, fluid lead tone that's still articulate enough for complex chords, à la later Shawn Lane/Holdsworth's Boogie and Recto years/’70s Frank Zappa), I think Bass sounds great around 11:00. Come to think of it, Treble 1:00 / Mid 12:00 / Bass 11:00 is where I set my Dual Recto 25 combo, too, and it's just killer.
Presence: Again, not sure if this applies to all Marks or just more recent Mesa/Boogies, but on the Mark V (and the more recent versions of the Recto), Presence is NOT a strictly linear control. From about 11:00 upward, it does the familiar thing, adding a significant bandwidth of high-treble harmonics and some extra chirp on the pick attack. From 11:00 downward, however, Presence doesn't just remove or de-emphasize those frequencies, it actually adds compression and smoother, more singing gain texture. I keep the Presence on all my Mesas very low, like in the 7:30-9:00 range depending on guitar, musical purpose, etc. For me, this is one of the great Mesa/Boogie features: the warm, smooth, vocalized compression you get on high-gain leads with Presence around 7:30 and, in my case, a PRS on its neck pickup is among my very favorite guitar sounds in the known universe.

PART 2: THE GRAPHIC EQ
If the "normal" knobs exist to determine shape and saturation of gain, the graphic EQ is a bit like mastering your guitar tone: it enters your signal path after the TMB and Gain knobs, and it boosts or cuts particular bandwidths, not just the specific frequencies named beneath the sliders. (I don't know if Mesa's ever publicized the exact figures here, or if they're different for each Mark, but to me, it sounds like the middle 3 sliders have a much lower Q, i.e. affect a much wider bandwidth, than the highest and lowest sliders.)
First cautionary tale: You've no doubt seen plenty of Boogie Mark players using the "smile" or "V-scoop" on their GEQs. That's a fine sound for certain things; it's by no means "the best," or "necessary." Some well-meaning people will tell you that you've absolutely got to scoop the middle faders, especially the 750Hz slider (pardon if I use "slider" and "fader" interchangeably), and especially on thicker-sounding Marks like the IV or the Mark IV mode on the V. Not true. That's one sound among many; maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't, and maybe you'll love it with 2 guitars and hate it with 3 others, and likewise for speakers, cabs, rooms ...
Second cautionary tale: Different Boogie Marks have the lines on their graphic EQs in different places. My V:25 has middle, top, and bottom lines, but there's about 1/3" extra above the "top" and below the "bottom"; I know some other Marks go top, halfway-to-middle, middle, halfway-to-bottom, bottom. As with everything, ears first.
Third and MOST IMPORTANT cautionary tale: Just as with the pre-gain EQ knobs, the overall sonic character of this section of your Mark will be determined by which slider you turn highest. If you want a crushing, sludgy, low-middy sound, for instance, you're not going to get it by "tricking" the amp into some arcane combination of sliders with the low-mids set paradoxically quiet.
This, I think, is absolutely key: test each slider, decide which one you want to be the cornerstone of your tone, and then arrange the others beneath it in whatever way fills out a sound you like. That's the only "rule" I've found to hold true. Whatever slider is highest will be dominant, and if you find yourself doing some strange things with the others around it, so much the better – you've got your own sound now!

THE FADERS
80 Hz: Perhaps the single most common mistake I've seen in EQing Boogies, especially smaller combos without the natural thump of a 4x12 cabinet, is to crank the 80 Hz slider right from the start. As somebody who did this myself, believe me, you're bringing a lot of unnecessary grief into your life. An overused 80 slider will not make a combo sound like a full stack, it'll just make everything boomy, subby, and indistinct, and – most importantly – you'll drive yourself crazy wondering why your other EQ changes don't help, when the answer is that your 80 Hz slider is drowning them all out.
(Example: @fatbagg, who gets some of the best sounds on TGP, runs the Bass knob at 1 and the 80 slider nearly off on his Mark IIC+, but because he's playing it through a cab with darker-toned speakers chosen for that exact application, he gets possibly the greatest IIC+ lead sound I've ever heard.)
Setting each slider will be intensely personal, of course, and as I've mentioned, I'd encourage you to turn each of them way up and way down, leaving the others in the middle; that way, you'll understand the character of each slider, and you can decide which one you'd like to dominate your post-gain tone. I personally favor Mark IV mode on the lead channel of my V:25, and I keep 80 Hz just a slight bump above the middle line, maybe a third of the way between the middle and top. That gives me plenty of oomph without subbing or rattling everything out.
240 Hz: A touchy one, and very important to the character of your sound. Too little, and things get razor-thin and acquire a sibilant, fizzy attack (which might be what you want!); too much, and it's mud all day. Just right, however, and you get a beautiful low-mid richness that makes chords hit like piledrivers and adds major punch to your single-note lines. I like it bumped a bit above the center line, just a touch higher than 80 Hz.
750 Hz: This is the Command Center, lieutenants. No other slider does so much to define your tone, and simply sweeping it from top to bottom and stopping at any random point will make you think you've been fooled into playing a different amp. The lower you go, the thinner and more brutal the tone, but also the quieter and more washed-out sounding. This is one great key to the 750 slider: it has an enormous effect on overall amp volume, and without changing your master, you can go from "barely audible" to "too loud without earplugs" just via the 750.
On the other end, from the middle up, the 750 gives you thickness, richness, chordal crunch, and that legendary Mesa Mark "liquid lead" tone, but be careful: there is a VERY DEFINITE POINT, which will vary depending on your guitar, amp, speakers, etc., at which the 750 Hz slider veers over into pure nasal honk. Unless you're looking for a special effect in the studio, that's probably not your goal here. If you're looking for the kind of tones I favor, I'd suggest setting 750 both first and highest; I keep it slightly over halfway between the middle and top lines.
All hail 750 Hz. It's your best friend and, ill-used, can become your biggest headache.
2200 Hz: What I think of as "the crunch slider." This is where you really get the chunk and crackle out of your chords, but be careful: when set too high, 2200 will give you a more trebly version of that 750 nasal honk, and, very importantly, it will hyper-emphasize all the little accidental sounds you make while playing (fingers sliding along strings, thumb moving on the back of the neck, belt buckle tapping the vibrato-system cover, etc.). You want just enough crunch to stay, well, crunchy, and not enough for all that irritating stuff. I run mine a little bit over the center line – I'd have to check, but I think it's right at the point where the white line becomes visible under the bottom of the fader.
6600 Hz: The Mystery Slider. Now, some of you are going to turn up the 6600 slider, hear all that vicious seething sizzling treble, think F*ck yeah!, and that'll be all. For you: may you be blessed and depart in peace to love and serve the Boogie.
But for those of us who like a thicker, more fluid tone, the 6600 is a bit of a conundrum, or will seem like one until you finally figure it out.
As I've said god-knows-how-many-times, so much of the Boogie EQ process is about finding the knob/slider that gives your basic character, then dialing in good ratios of the other knobs/sliders. So when I first heard the 6600 Hz slider, I thought, "Well, don't need any of THAT," and turned it off. I then spent weeks struggling to get a tone that was creamy, thick, and fluid, but had enough cut and snarl to stay articulate and to keep the top end of my chords ringing. I messed with the Treble knob, with Presence, with 2200, even with turning off the GEQ altogether (not recommended), until I figured it out: mix just a little bit of 6600 Hz in there.
The sound of the 6600 slider on its own is less than delightful to me, but if I juice that range just a touch, I can keep the Treble where I like it, I don't have to change the Gain, the Presence can say in those low regions where it's providing compression, and – perhaps most crucially – I can keep all that rich midrange I love so much. All I had to do was move the 6600 slider up from the very, very bottom to the point where the bottom of the fader is covering the bottom white line. (For users of the old 5-line GEQ graphic, this would be 1/3rd to 1/2 between the bottom and middle-bottomm lines.)
Hallelujah! All my midrange, all my thickness, fluidity, and compression, and suddenly, the top end opened up, and I had chord articulation an clarity all day!

And that, brethren and ... sestren? ... is what I've learned about EQing a Mesa Boogie Mark, particularly the Mark V:25. I'll also add that I prefer to keep these settings for all 3 modes of the lead channel, because I like how they react differently: IV is my central big-chord/liquid-lead sound, IIC+ is tighter, more focused, and goes great with Teles and bolt-ons, and Xtreme (Extreme for you big-V users) gives me a crazy chordal roar and chug.

Thanks to anybody who read through this little discursus, and I sincerely hope I've saved at least one person some time and frustration, and made it more fun to play your Boogie. Thanks in particular to @fatbagg, @teofilrocks, and @De Batz for things they've taught me over the last few months.
———————————————————————-
Settings Advice

What I think I'd suggest for a gainy tone is to set Gain first (always do that, because it really affects the EQ), then dial in the TMB tone stack and Presence control at moderate positions – which, for a Mark V, means something like Treble at 1 o'clock, Mid wherever you prefer it between 10:30 and 1:30, and Bass about 9:00. Set Presence wherever you tend to like it between 9 o'clock and noon.

Then I'd recommend setting the GEQ like this: presuming you want more low end than the very, very small amount you'll be getting, turn the 80 Hz slider most of the way up, say slightly below the top line. I think the next move, then, is to move the 750 Hz slider all the way up and down and figure out where you like it, because that middle GEQ slider is the single most determinative factor in your tone (other than the Gain control). Once you figure out where you want the very middle midrange, you can add or subtract little bits of the other 3 sliders. 240 Hz adds thickness turned up, clears out mud turned down; 2200 Hz is "bite" or "claw," but you can turn it down if it sounds too aggressive; and 6600 Hz is "crisp" or "sizzle," which I tend to leave right in the middle.

And then, with your GEQ basically figured out, you can tweak the tone stack again to get the sort of distortion texture you want. Don't worry if you find yourself changing things every time you play for a little while: it's very easy to get EQ ear fatigue if you spend too long bringing things up and down, so (and this is important) after you get your basic TMB and GEQ settings, change them in small increments, and give your ears time to adjust.

For Crunch mode, first of all, I should say that I never use it with the GEQ, so I can't recommend GEQ settings that will work for both it and channel 2. As its standard controls go, I find that Gain and Mid set lower (and remember, the second half of Mid is also your Boost on ch.1) get you closer to brownface Deluxe/Suhr Hombre/ZZ Top territory. The more you push the Gain and Mid/Boost, the more you get into hotrodded Marshall sounds; if you push that Mid/Boost to, say, 3 o'clock, and then slowly turn up the Gain from about 9 o'clock, you'll start off in JTM range, then up through Plexi, modded Plexi, 2203, and something close to Soldano and Bogner at the top end.

Since I don't use the GEQ here, it's simpler to dial in: just choose the amount of gain and character you want with the Gain and Mid/Boost controls, then dial in Treble, Bass, and Presence. I keep Treble around noon, I always turn Bass down as Gain goes up (that's a good rule for any amp, especially a Mesa/Boogie), and I don't like super sibilant, crispy tones, so I usually leave Presence around 9:00-10:00 on the Crunch mode. If you wanted a more accurate Super Lead or José mod Marshall tone, you might want to run Presence a little harder. Even at low gain in Crunch mode, I doubt you'll ever need Bass higher than 11 o'clock or so.
 
 
SCSurfAddict said:
Having had all three Mark V's I can express my sympathy to your dialing challenges. On The Gear Page site a poster named dead astronaut posted the following (that I agree with). He is talking about the 5/25 but it applies to the 90W as well. I don't think he will me mind me re-posting it here.
---------------------------------------------------------------

From: DeadAstronaut on The Gear Page discussing dialing in a Mark V/25

PART 1: THE KNOBS
People have expressed this various ways, and to me, the most helpful explanation is to say that the knobs give you the amount and texture of your gain, whereas the graphic EQ cuts or boosts frequency bands in the amp's overall output. You might think of the preamp EQ section as a very powerful "shape" or "contour" control.
Gain: Like Mesa says, we're not just looking at raw gain quotient here, we're also dealing with a very powerful tone-shaping tool that moves from the brightness of a cranked BF/SF Fender through a medium-bright Tweedy crunch and all the way up to the mega-high-gain saturation that made Boogies famous. Ideally, you should set Gain with a pretty clear idea of the general tonal character you want. Heavy saturation, in my experience (and not just the V:25 combo), sets in around 2:00. I like it between 3:00 and 4:00, depending on the guitar, the part, etc.
You also don't want or need to turn Gain all the way up. Past about 4:30, it mostly adds noise, and you're in danger of turning some preamp tubes microphonic.
Treble: Here's one crucial thing about Mesa/Boogie EQ, and not just on the Marks – whichever knob/slider you set highest determines the dominant character of your tone, at least in that section of the EQ, and the other controls recede. Cranking the Mid knob up, for example, does a number of things other than increasing the midrange. It'll limit the effectiveness of the Treble and Bass knobs, and it'll add an extra band of cutting high mid frequencies near the top of the dial. Set knobs, therefore, not just each to itself, but with keen attention to the ratio between them.
The Treble knob acts, up to a certain point, as a kind of gate on the Gain knob, so you don't want to crank Gain and then cut Treble. (For example: if you want a big, muffled, doomy/stoner tone, you'd want to keep Treble reasonably high to get all the gain and then crank your Bass knob.) I personally find that Treble around 1:00/1:15 works very well. Also, like Gain, be careful about cranking Treble too high – maxed out settings at high volume can make your tubes start complaining.
Mid: Perhaps this isn't the case on other Boogie Marks, but on the V:25, the Mid knob isn't the rich, creamy kind – it's much more about cut, body, presence, and ability to hold your own in the mix. Lots of people scoop it, both here and in the GEQ; I hate that sound and think Mid right around 12:00, or just a touch above, works really well on most Mesa/Boogies. As aforementioned, Mid will also introduce some very cutting high-mid frequencies as you crank it past 2:00 or so, and those come with a corresponding increase in both volume and background nois.
Bass: Ah, the most controversial knob on Boogies. Consensus wisdom will tell you to keep it around 9:00 and probably even lower it from there. If you want that crazy-tight, metal-rhythm, kick-in-the-chest IIC+ sound, then yes, drop it as low as you like. If, however, you're looking for a thicker, richer, more liquid tone and don't especially need extreme tightness in the bass end, don't let anyone tell you where to set this control. For my needs (I'm aiming for a heavily saturated, fluid lead tone that's still articulate enough for complex chords, à la later Shawn Lane/Holdsworth's Boogie and Recto years/’70s Frank Zappa), I think Bass sounds great around 11:00. Come to think of it, Treble 1:00 / Mid 12:00 / Bass 11:00 is where I set my Dual Recto 25 combo, too, and it's just killer.
Presence: Again, not sure if this applies to all Marks or just more recent Mesa/Boogies, but on the Mark V (and the more recent versions of the Recto), Presence is NOT a strictly linear control. From about 11:00 upward, it does the familiar thing, adding a significant bandwidth of high-treble harmonics and some extra chirp on the pick attack. From 11:00 downward, however, Presence doesn't just remove or de-emphasize those frequencies, it actually adds compression and smoother, more singing gain texture. I keep the Presence on all my Mesas very low, like in the 7:30-9:00 range depending on guitar, musical purpose, etc. For me, this is one of the great Mesa/Boogie features: the warm, smooth, vocalized compression you get on high-gain leads with Presence around 7:30 and, in my case, a PRS on its neck pickup is among my very favorite guitar sounds in the known universe.

PART 2: THE GRAPHIC EQ
If the "normal" knobs exist to determine shape and saturation of gain, the graphic EQ is a bit like mastering your guitar tone: it enters your signal path after the TMB and Gain knobs, and it boosts or cuts particular bandwidths, not just the specific frequencies named beneath the sliders. (I don't know if Mesa's ever publicized the exact figures here, or if they're different for each Mark, but to me, it sounds like the middle 3 sliders have a much lower Q, i.e. affect a much wider bandwidth, than the highest and lowest sliders.)
First cautionary tale: You've no doubt seen plenty of Boogie Mark players using the "smile" or "V-scoop" on their GEQs. That's a fine sound for certain things; it's by no means "the best," or "necessary." Some well-meaning people will tell you that you've absolutely got to scoop the middle faders, especially the 750Hz slider (pardon if I use "slider" and "fader" interchangeably), and especially on thicker-sounding Marks like the IV or the Mark IV mode on the V. Not true. That's one sound among many; maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't, and maybe you'll love it with 2 guitars and hate it with 3 others, and likewise for speakers, cabs, rooms ...
Second cautionary tale: Different Boogie Marks have the lines on their graphic EQs in different places. My V:25 has middle, top, and bottom lines, but there's about 1/3" extra above the "top" and below the "bottom"; I know some other Marks go top, halfway-to-middle, middle, halfway-to-bottom, bottom. As with everything, ears first.
Third and MOST IMPORTANT cautionary tale: Just as with the pre-gain EQ knobs, the overall sonic character of this section of your Mark will be determined by which slider you turn highest. If you want a crushing, sludgy, low-middy sound, for instance, you're not going to get it by "tricking" the amp into some arcane combination of sliders with the low-mids set paradoxically quiet.
This, I think, is absolutely key: test each slider, decide which one you want to be the cornerstone of your tone, and then arrange the others beneath it in whatever way fills out a sound you like. That's the only "rule" I've found to hold true. Whatever slider is highest will be dominant, and if you find yourself doing some strange things with the others around it, so much the better – you've got your own sound now!

THE FADERS
80 Hz: Perhaps the single most common mistake I've seen in EQing Boogies, especially smaller combos without the natural thump of a 4x12 cabinet, is to crank the 80 Hz slider right from the start. As somebody who did this myself, believe me, you're bringing a lot of unnecessary grief into your life. An overused 80 slider will not make a combo sound like a full stack, it'll just make everything boomy, subby, and indistinct, and – most importantly – you'll drive yourself crazy wondering why your other EQ changes don't help, when the answer is that your 80 Hz slider is drowning them all out.
(Example: @fatbagg, who gets some of the best sounds on TGP, runs the Bass knob at 1 and the 80 slider nearly off on his Mark IIC+, but because he's playing it through a cab with darker-toned speakers chosen for that exact application, he gets possibly the greatest IIC+ lead sound I've ever heard.)
Setting each slider will be intensely personal, of course, and as I've mentioned, I'd encourage you to turn each of them way up and way down, leaving the others in the middle; that way, you'll understand the character of each slider, and you can decide which one you'd like to dominate your post-gain tone. I personally favor Mark IV mode on the lead channel of my V:25, and I keep 80 Hz just a slight bump above the middle line, maybe a third of the way between the middle and top. That gives me plenty of oomph without subbing or rattling everything out.
240 Hz: A touchy one, and very important to the character of your sound. Too little, and things get razor-thin and acquire a sibilant, fizzy attack (which might be what you want!); too much, and it's mud all day. Just right, however, and you get a beautiful low-mid richness that makes chords hit like piledrivers and adds major punch to your single-note lines. I like it bumped a bit above the center line, just a touch higher than 80 Hz.
750 Hz: This is the Command Center, lieutenants. No other slider does so much to define your tone, and simply sweeping it from top to bottom and stopping at any random point will make you think you've been fooled into playing a different amp. The lower you go, the thinner and more brutal the tone, but also the quieter and more washed-out sounding. This is one great key to the 750 slider: it has an enormous effect on overall amp volume, and without changing your master, you can go from "barely audible" to "too loud without earplugs" just via the 750.
On the other end, from the middle up, the 750 gives you thickness, richness, chordal crunch, and that legendary Mesa Mark "liquid lead" tone, but be careful: there is a VERY DEFINITE POINT, which will vary depending on your guitar, amp, speakers, etc., at which the 750 Hz slider veers over into pure nasal honk. Unless you're looking for a special effect in the studio, that's probably not your goal here. If you're looking for the kind of tones I favor, I'd suggest setting 750 both first and highest; I keep it slightly over halfway between the middle and top lines.
All hail 750 Hz. It's your best friend and, ill-used, can become your biggest headache.
2200 Hz: What I think of as "the crunch slider." This is where you really get the chunk and crackle out of your chords, but be careful: when set too high, 2200 will give you a more trebly version of that 750 nasal honk, and, very importantly, it will hyper-emphasize all the little accidental sounds you make while playing (fingers sliding along strings, thumb moving on the back of the neck, belt buckle tapping the vibrato-system cover, etc.). You want just enough crunch to stay, well, crunchy, and not enough for all that irritating stuff. I run mine a little bit over the center line – I'd have to check, but I think it's right at the point where the white line becomes visible under the bottom of the fader.
6600 Hz: The Mystery Slider. Now, some of you are going to turn up the 6600 slider, hear all that vicious seething sizzling treble, think F*ck yeah!, and that'll be all. For you: may you be blessed and depart in peace to love and serve the Boogie.
But for those of us who like a thicker, more fluid tone, the 6600 is a bit of a conundrum, or will seem like one until you finally figure it out.
As I've said god-knows-how-many-times, so much of the Boogie EQ process is about finding the knob/slider that gives your basic character, then dialing in good ratios of the other knobs/sliders. So when I first heard the 6600 Hz slider, I thought, "Well, don't need any of THAT," and turned it off. I then spent weeks struggling to get a tone that was creamy, thick, and fluid, but had enough cut and snarl to stay articulate and to keep the top end of my chords ringing. I messed with the Treble knob, with Presence, with 2200, even with turning off the GEQ altogether (not recommended), until I figured it out: mix just a little bit of 6600 Hz in there.
The sound of the 6600 slider on its own is less than delightful to me, but if I juice that range just a touch, I can keep the Treble where I like it, I don't have to change the Gain, the Presence can say in those low regions where it's providing compression, and – perhaps most crucially – I can keep all that rich midrange I love so much. All I had to do was move the 6600 slider up from the very, very bottom to the point where the bottom of the fader is covering the bottom white line. (For users of the old 5-line GEQ graphic, this would be 1/3rd to 1/2 between the bottom and middle-bottomm lines.)
Hallelujah! All my midrange, all my thickness, fluidity, and compression, and suddenly, the top end opened up, and I had chord articulation an clarity all day!

And that, brethren and ... sestren? ... is what I've learned about EQing a Mesa Boogie Mark, particularly the Mark V:25. I'll also add that I prefer to keep these settings for all 3 modes of the lead channel, because I like how they react differently: IV is my central big-chord/liquid-lead sound, IIC+ is tighter, more focused, and goes great with Teles and bolt-ons, and Xtreme (Extreme for you big-V users) gives me a crazy chordal roar and chug.

Thanks to anybody who read through this little discursus, and I sincerely hope I've saved at least one person some time and frustration, and made it more fun to play your Boogie. Thanks in particular to @fatbagg, @teofilrocks, and @De Batz for things they've taught me over the last few months.
———————————————————————-
Settings Advice

What I think I'd suggest for a gainy tone is to set Gain first (always do that, because it really affects the EQ), then dial in the TMB tone stack and Presence control at moderate positions – which, for a Mark V, means something like Treble at 1 o'clock, Mid wherever you prefer it between 10:30 and 1:30, and Bass about 9:00. Set Presence wherever you tend to like it between 9 o'clock and noon.

Then I'd recommend setting the GEQ like this: presuming you want more low end than the very, very small amount you'll be getting, turn the 80 Hz slider most of the way up, say slightly below the top line. I think the next move, then, is to move the 750 Hz slider all the way up and down and figure out where you like it, because that middle GEQ slider is the single most determinative factor in your tone (other than the Gain control). Once you figure out where you want the very middle midrange, you can add or subtract little bits of the other 3 sliders. 240 Hz adds thickness turned up, clears out mud turned down; 2200 Hz is "bite" or "claw," but you can turn it down if it sounds too aggressive; and 6600 Hz is "crisp" or "sizzle," which I tend to leave right in the middle.

And then, with your GEQ basically figured out, you can tweak the tone stack again to get the sort of distortion texture you want. Don't worry if you find yourself changing things every time you play for a little while: it's very easy to get EQ ear fatigue if you spend too long bringing things up and down, so (and this is important) after you get your basic TMB and GEQ settings, change them in small increments, and give your ears time to adjust.

For Crunch mode, first of all, I should say that I never use it with the GEQ, so I can't recommend GEQ settings that will work for both it and channel 2. As its standard controls go, I find that Gain and Mid set lower (and remember, the second half of Mid is also your Boost on ch.1) get you closer to brownface Deluxe/Suhr Hombre/ZZ Top territory. The more you push the Gain and Mid/Boost, the more you get into hotrodded Marshall sounds; if you push that Mid/Boost to, say, 3 o'clock, and then slowly turn up the Gain from about 9 o'clock, you'll start off in JTM range, then up through Plexi, modded Plexi, 2203, and something close to Soldano and Bogner at the top end.

Since I don't use the GEQ here, it's simpler to dial in: just choose the amount of gain and character you want with the Gain and Mid/Boost controls, then dial in Treble, Bass, and Presence. I keep Treble around noon, I always turn Bass down as Gain goes up (that's a good rule for any amp, especially a Mesa/Boogie), and I don't like super sibilant, crispy tones, so I usually leave Presence around 9:00-10:00 on the Crunch mode. If you wanted a more accurate Super Lead or José mod Marshall tone, you might want to run Presence a little harder. Even at low gain in Crunch mode, I doubt you'll ever need Bass higher than 11 o'clock or so.
 

My gawd.....what a long rambling mess that is!!!

Too much fluff and very little solid info.

Could have made salient points with much less.

Must have been some good drugs.
 
I just wish I could get more saturation from my Mark V 90. Often feels really dry and tight. I often want more squish and fat richness and saturation.
Best I can get is Mark I for medium gain and Mark IV/Xtreme for heavy gain and sometimes wirh a Perla to boost, although doesn't take pedals well.

Secondly I would love Crunch of it again was more saturated.and thicker. I try it with boosts and it helps.

Lots of guys say the V doesn't take boosts but it works ok with some.

Finally, even though I use JJ tubes, including 6CA7 power tubes, I struggle to tame the high end bite. I often want a darker, meaner sound. It's hard to achieve.

I hear the KSR amps are like darker boutique versions of Mesa amps.
 
Euge Valovirta does dial in a pretty saturated tone with his V:90 :shock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uye78K_nHtU&t=411s

FWIW... I was wondering how he was able to run the Ch3 Gain at 2:00... took to trying his approach of Ch3 in 90W mode, cranked with a silent load. That was indeed an ear opener for me, there is something to getting that power section breathing. YMMV
 
What is Euge's approach? He cranks the master/output? That's too loud for my normal use.
I do love the amp with the effect's loop bypassed, but it's much louder.
 
boardn10 said:
What is Euge's approach? He cranks the master/output? That's too loud for my normal use.
I do love the amp with thr effect's loop bypassed, but it's much louder.

Oh yea 90W cranked with a cab would be deadly LOL

Yea, he had it 1/2 way up, but was using a reactive load instead of a cab. He takes the loads output to a cab sim and then monitors it at a much lower vol. There are many variations to this approach. Personally I use a Captor, which IMHO is not the best load choice out there, and run the line out to a solid state power brick (Tech21) with vol control and then to the cab. Slave out works too. You'll need either a cab sim or a real cab to roll off the hi's from the amps raw output. Previously it was always 10W mode on Ch3 and silly me hadn't really thought of trying the 90W mode cranked until I saw the vid. It was a better hi-gain vibe for sure. I spent alot of time going down the attenuator road first but for me they colored the tone of the amp too much and lacked the vol control I was looking for.
 
I always use 90w mode as I find it bigger, fuller and punchier.
My complaints have been heavy saturation and extreme highs.

I was using the effects loop bypassed but it was so loud and it was a struggle to balance channels. I went back to using the amonwirh the loop active

I watched Tone Wars where Jarrod reviewed the V90 and he mentioned he felt the amp lacked a lot of richness and saturation compared to his favorite amps like the Engl Savage, EVH Stealth and Revv Generator. He also said it was hard to take the out of control highs which can go right thru you.
I use JJ 6CA7 tubes which help.
I even thought of selling my V90 to get one of those amps or a KSR.

Oddly, even though I'm struggling at home, I know I loved my tone at band practice and hams. Hard to say why.
 
Curious what cab(s) you are currently running?

Yea the loop can effect the tone a bit, I've had to tweak vols in the signal chain to compensate. BTW, have you done the V4 -> 12at7 tube swap?

Fellow BB Thaymz alerted me to that... will direct quote him here 8) it was a major help on Ch3

"definitely do the tube swapping out the 12AX7 and by putting an 12AT7WC JAN Philips (12AT7) in v4 position. Made a huge difference. The tube change reduced any harsh treble but added to that granular sound in the distortion (the vintagey volume oscillation we were talking about)."
 
Wow, some very deep and insightful writing about the EQ of this amp.

I pretty much always keep the graphic EQ in the classic V since Boogie recommended that as do a lit of pro players. That said, I'm going to try really messing around with them now.


I lean toward very thick, the darker side of things, and beefy, rich tones and for leads I like thick, rich and creamy, yet some guys complain the V can't do that.
Personally, I love the Ma k V lead tones. I was a long time Bogner and Egnater guy and I think it beat out my Shiva.

That said I do love the. Bogner lead tone, Bludotone, and lots of others for that thick, chewy vibe. I'd love to find something close here in the V.

Mesa and lots of players say the preamp EQ is more like shaping the distortion and then the GEQ is essential and needs to always be on. Sounds like some of you leave it off. I have started messing with the preset knobs if I don't use the sliders. Even in crunch and mark I, I like at least the preset knobs. I do however see guys on YouTube getting good tones with it off. I think I tried it on crunch but sounded Marla and thin but I need to try again. At least with the preset, you get some of that flavor.

I was close to getting the JP2C over the Mark V but felt the V had a better channel two and crunch tones plus the Extreme does modern high gain better than the JP for me.

On the EQ, I find for Extreme, it is amazing with the preamp mids and bass all the way off or close to it.
I see the bass knob like a bass tightening knob, and then use the GEQ for overall EQ. The amp has mucho mids so I find I can also keep that off on the preamp.
Then I like that the treble adds saturation or I can use the bright switch and turn treble down. I still struggle with overly bright tones.

For a lot of crunch and high gain tones, I like the presence almost off! Makes it creamier.

Cabs are as follows:
Splawn 412 with Redbacks and Mesa V30s
Bogner 212 with Redback/K100
Stone Age with Redback/CL80
Bogner 412 with two stock V30s and planning to get two Eminence DV-77 and possibly two Eminence/Omega Vam12-65 speakers. I may leave the V30s and get other Celestions or the Fane F-70 speakers.

Anyone try Fane F-70s or other Fanes with the Mark V?

Finally I often think I could get a Revv Gen III, KSR Gemini, EVH, Engl, Diezel, or similar amp, if I replace my V.

On the V4 tube, I didn't notice a big difference. I prefer more saturation, so the Jan Phillips removes some saturation, but I thought the smoothing of the highs was minor. That said, 6CA7 tubes make a difference!

Example:
https://youtu.be/3tXn5r2RKV4

This guys does a good job talking about the EQ.
He also mentions having the mud and mass at almost 0.
https://youtu.be/r87Of7GDB50
 
I hoping there is a ay for me to get what I want from my Mark V.
Otherwise, I can sell and move on.
Since I sold my Shiva 20th Anniversary, I no longer have my go to amp for classic rock, grunge and 90s rock and metal. The Mark V doesn't have that Bogner chew I love.
But I struggled with the Shiva in a hard rock and metal context, hence why I got my Mark V and PRS Archon 100.
 

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