Will high gain 12AX7s cause clean channel to break up?

[farren]

Nah thank you. Always fun to discuss things you like with others in the same boat and I only like this amp more all the time

I wish we could tell definitively if you're experiencing normal background noise or if this is something particular to your amp since it's gotten worse (though it may have gotten worse after certain tube swaps I guess, since you've rolled your tubes around so many times ). I've rationalized the background noise on this amp by considering that it's a much more complex beast than the Mark IV and there may be a little sacrifice involved when you have something with so much pre-amp circuitry in one little medium-sized chassis. Perhaps it will bother me more when I finally get around to recording some stuff...

When I play at low volumes, the hiss is hard to notice over the stock fan, or in my case, even my very slow, quiet 200 mm fan I use instead of it. When I go from the usual variac and 10w and 8 o'clock volume up to full power and 90w and 10 o'clock and beyond, I wear earplugs so it doesn't really bother me loud either. Most of the time I'm only playing in 10w mode, though, since I only permit myself to crank it when I've fully warmed up my chops, which can take me a couple hours. (The fact that I so rarely get fully warmed up probably speaks to a lack of discipline. )

Enjoy playing. Gear research can be tiring, and it is certainly expensive due to what it often leads to.

 

[mesa metal]

Nah thank you. Always fun to discuss things you like with others in the same boat and I only like this amp more all the time

I wish we could tell definitively if you're experiencing normal background noise or if this is something particular to your amp since it's gotten worse (though it may have gotten worse after certain tube swaps I guess, since you've rolled your tubes around so many times ). I've rationalized the background noise on this amp by considering that it's a much more complex beast than the Mark IV and there may be a little sacrifice involved when you have something with so much pre-amp circuitry in one little medium-sized chassis. Perhaps it will bother me more when I finally get around to recording some stuff...

When I play at low volumes, the hiss is hard to notice over the stock fan, or in my case, even my very slow, quiet 200 mm fan I use instead of it. When I go from the usual variac and 10w and 8 o'clock volume up to full power and 90w and 10 o'clock and beyond, I wear earplugs so it doesn't really bother me loud either. Most of the time I'm only playing in 10w mode, though, since I only permit myself to crank it when I've fully warmed up my chops, which can take me a couple hours. (The fact that I so rarely get fully warmed up probably speaks to a lack of discipline. )

Enjoy playing. Gear research can be tiring, and it is certainly expensive due to what it often leads to.

i too am getting to like this amp more as i do little tweaks here and there......but i have to say the tungsol in V1 took some of the brightness away,,but easily dialed back in..i am on my sixth tube roll..and totally agree with you about so much circuitry in this amp that it is the nature of the beast..and iv only had this amp since december
havent played through it yet tonite but will try to before it get tooo late
i havent messed around with the 10watt settings yet at length,,,but when i was looking at the power tubes (that beautiful blue gassy glow) i was switching between 10 ,,45 and 90 watt and could actually see the wich tubes are being used for each wattage,,,,very cool man...
did have a question about your 200mm fan,,,,where do i get the adapters to use them in the wall socket.........i probably have a few of those lying around..would love to get more air moving around in there.....like my pc...
oh and sometimes by the time i start to get warmed up and get some really heavy riffs coming out.....its time to go to bed :?
love doing gear research and does get expensive at times but its all worth it to keep playing and do what we do best!!!!!!!!
i think i may try the 5751 i been reading about lately just to get my own opinions on how it does in this amp........
keep rockin my friend..................this is a great thread.......for sure ...................

 

[farren]

I'm pretty sure which of my power tubes will fail first as much as I use 10w/class A

You just need a plain ole AC adapter with a molex connector or something that can be adapted to molex. I have dedicated 200 mm fans for my amp and for my AVR, one runs on an adapter I had from an old USB harddrive enclosure, one uses one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Coolerguys-10...3735581&sr=8-1&keywords=coolerguys+ac+adapter

It has a four-pin molex connector and then all you need is a molex to 2/3-pin fan adapter which most good case fans will come with. This is the fan that I use in both places and it works great: http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master...id=1363735701&sr=1-1&keywords=200+mm+case+fan

It comes with the adapter you need and is cheaper than the black no-LED version. What you can do if you don't care for LEDs like me is take off the sticker that covers the spindle and just bridge four pairs of connections together with four blobs of solder, shorting out the LEDs. You probably have a solder iron, but even if you don't it's the easiest thing in the world to solder. Then you'll have a cheap, quiet, LEDless fan that can still move a lot of air.

If you want to use fans you already have lying around, you probably know that the smaller the fan, the louder it will be to move the same amount of air because you have to run them at higher RPM. If you wanted to use an 80 or 120 mm fan, you could buy the same AC adapter and stick a Zalman Fan Mate 2 in between the fan and power supply which will give you a pot to adjust fan voltage anywhere from 5 to 12 volts. That power supply is rated at 2 amps so you should be able to daisy chain together ~3 small to medium fans and run them slow. ...But, probably easier just to buy the 200 mm It's a great fan. I'd stick them in my PC if it didn't insist on 220s and 230s

5751 in the V1 position sounds really dramatic... I bet it might lessen some of the noise issues. Not sure what it'd do for overall gain, but I rarely dime gain on channel 2 and never dime it on channel 3 so I could probably sacrifice a bit Interested to know how that goes if you try it.

 

[mesa metal]

thanks for that info on the fans ill definitely be getting the adapters to get more air flow through the combo......I been using it with the c90 disconnected and just using the 2x12,,sounds good,,,,,,,,,,im going to invest in a 5751 for the V1 slot and see how it sounds.........I just asked a dude in another post how his amp is sounding after a few days of use with that tube,,,,,i also noticed he has a tung sol in V4,,5,,6,,so im courious to see how that sounds....
I just need to get the ruby tube from doug and the 5751 from the tube depot.....I also saw that doug is discontinuing the sed winged c 6L6 tubes...he said they are testing poorly and too much money......wich power tubes are you running now,,,,,,i have the stock Chinese str 440s in there and so far theyre ok...
so now I just have to dig through some stuff and get the fans I need and get the adapters....thanks
and want to see if that tube will lessen the noise a little,,,but im getting used to it :?
ill keep you posted 8)

 

[farren]

I thought about going Tung Sol in all positions except V2 and V7, but changed my mind after hearing they tend to fail sooner than other 12AX7s... That may have been one particular batch a couple years ago, though, as I haven't read many complaints from recent years. Didn't know the =C=s had gone to crap, but that will save me some money when I eventually have to re-tube I was considering either them or just sticking with the Mesa 440s. Honestly the 440s seem fine and mine have lasted long enough to satisfy me considering I got this amp in mid 2010 and it's still sounding good today. Funny that I'd have more mesa 12AX7s die (3 including SPAX7) during that time than 6L6s (0)

 

[mesa metal]

so far ive not had one tungsol go bad on me,,been using them for a long time....I have one in the V4 in my triaxis..
when I get the 5751 im going to try the tungsols in 4,5,6 to see what kind of tone I get...
it is a shame that the =c=6L6 are getting crappy,,doug had stated that they have changed the materials they are using thus a lower quality product..and were not testing well..he has a few matched quads left of the old stock..
he also said it will be awhile before the news catches up to the internet..i have a set of winged c in my 50/50 amp and it sounds soo good....
going to pull them and stick em in the mkV....the 440s seem ok for Chinese tubes and theyre only two months old...so far I like the bottom end I get from them
I also like the mullard 12ax7 they are pretty bright sounding compared to the tung sol..and lately I been on a quest to get some of the older mesa branded tubes like the picture I posted in the tube section.......well it turns out they are made by EI Yugoslavia tubes...those came stock in the 2;90 in the phase inverter section....going to try one of those in the V as well......even though I had my V since December it was built in 2009 and there is still roughly a year and a half of warranty still left on it..thats pretty cool
so ill let you know how the jan phillips 5751 sounds when I get it in the amp an give it a good listen...
should be here by monday

 

[mesa metal]

farren how are the tubes sounding in your V.do you notice any break in....
I got the 5751 today..so this weekend im going to change thing around a bit...similar to bandit2013 setup....

 

[farren]

Cool of Doug to be upfront about that... It's a shame quality has dropped. It seems like we're always just a few years from a generation of high-quality tubes being manufactured again like in the old days, and now one of the best current production powertubes goes downhill... Not the way things are supposed to go :/ I'm pretty sure those prone-to-dying Tung Sol RIs were from a single bad lot around 2009/2010 because all the threads I read complaining about them were from that period. It's been all positives since then.

I'm still loving these tubes but lately I corrupted my shoddy A/B testing by ditching the X2N in the Kramer in favor of an Evo2. Major upgrade there for a one-pickup guitar that needs to be as versatile as possible, but it's probably left me at a loss as to how the new tubes compare to the old ones Gotta say, I'm not a bridge pickup lead kind of guy but this is an amazing solo pickup with just a little bit of highs dialed back with the tone knob. BTW just finished crowning the ole Jackson's frets... Now I just have to sand and Tru-oil the neck, cut a Tusq XL for it and throw some electronics in it. I have some bizarre wiring plans for it that could prove terrible or pretty **** cool

I think that 5751 in the V1 is going to be a pretty dramatic change... If the results are positive or not I'll probably check one out someday just to compare the differences. Looking forward to hearing what you think.

 

[mesa metal]

Cool of Doug to be upfront about that... It's a shame quality has dropped. It seems like we're always just a few years from a generation of high-quality tubes being manufactured again like in the old days, and now one of the best current production powertubes goes downhill... Not the way things are supposed to go :/ I'm pretty sure those prone-to-dying Tung Sol RIs were from a single bad lot around 2009/2010 because all the threads I read complaining about them were from that period. It's been all positives since then.

I'm still loving these tubes but lately I corrupted my shoddy A/B testing by ditching the X2N in the Kramer in favor of an Evo2. Major upgrade there for a one-pickup guitar that needs to be as versatile as possible, but it's probably left me at a loss as to how the new tubes compare to the old ones Gotta say, I'm not a bridge pickup lead kind of guy but this is an amazing solo pickup with just a little bit of highs dialed back with the tone knob. BTW just finished crowning the ole Jackson's frets... Now I just have to sand and Tru-oil the neck, cut a Tusq XL for it and throw some electronics in it. I have some bizarre wiring plans for it that could prove terrible or pretty **** cool

I think that 5751 in the V1 is going to be a pretty dramatic change... If the results are positive or not I'll probably check one out someday just to compare the differences. Looking forward to hearing what you think.

i been buying from doug for a long time and he always answered all my questions no matter how goofy or not....so when he told me about the sed 6L6
i was bummed cause i really liked those tubes in my 50/50 and wanted a set for the V..so when the str440s go i will maybe try a set of tungsol 7581..either way i want tubes that will give a good bottom end to my sound
i may have a couple of the 09,,10 tung sols but so far none have crapped out yet....the ones in my triaxis are probably 6 or 7 years old at this point but i haven't played throught it in a while.....
dude that EVO2 is a great pickup,,my buddie has one in his guitar and he was raving about it...he has a Kramer too but not sure what model,,i do know it is and older one.
sounds like the Jackson is coming along great....good luck with the electronics...
ill keep u posted when i get that 5751 in there,,im expecting a dramatic change hopefully for the better.....going to put tungsols in V4,5,6..
not sure about V2 and 3 yet.......the 5751 came in@95/95 so it should sound really good :?
check out this post i just read!!!...... Mark V amp hum, hiss and crackling noise in 3rd channel?!?

 

[farren]

Chances are pretty good if it's an old Kramer from the original company (went out of business around '91) it's a Baretta like mine or maybe a Pacer. It's practically an ESP since they made most of the necks and bodies, but whatever

I can't imagine not having something really high gain in V2, so I'd have to keep a JJ in there... I've heard of people using Tung-Sols in all valves with great results in Mark IVs and Vs, though.

Saw that thread but not sure what to make of it... "Hisses" plural sounds like intermittent noise that comes and goes in addition to the background hum. I get that sometimes if the tubes are still warming up when I start playing, and I've had it before when pre-amp tubes have gone bad. Not what I typically expect from a bad tube, but two of my three 12AX7s that have failed have had that kind of intermittent noise as opposed to microphonics or a decrease in gain. From the sounds of it though it isn't just the normal background noise we've come to expect from Channel 3 that he's experiencing.

 

[mesa metal]

Chances are pretty good if it's an old Kramer from the original company (went out of business around '91) it's a Baretta like mine or maybe a Pacer. It's practically an ESP since they made most of the necks and bodies, but whatever

I can't imagine not having something really high gain in V2, so I'd have to keep a JJ in there... I've heard of people using Tung-Sols in all valves with great results in Mark IVs and Vs, though.

Saw that thread but not sure what to make of it... "Hisses" plural sounds like intermittent noise that comes and goes in addition to the background hum. I get that sometimes if the tubes are still warming up when I start playing, and I've had it before when pre-amp tubes have gone bad. Not what I typically expect from a bad tube, but two of my three 12AX7s that have failed have had that kind of intermittent noise as opposed to microphonics or a decrease in gain. From the sounds of it though it isn't just the normal background noise we've come to expect from Channel 3 that he's experiencing.

my buddies Kramer is a pacer Carrera from 1981

I have several JJs that are high gain so im going to put in V2 a 118/119 that should sound good and V3 maybe a mullard..ill post what I eventually put in

I was wondering if you were going to chime in on that post...I was going to write a lengthy reply but you summed it up very well....its something were going to have to live with and dosent take anything away from the awesomeness of the MKV!!! :twisted:
I even get a slight hum and hiss on channel 1 but It depends on the settings...I still may put my 2cents in that thread anyway...
unless I get any catastrophic noises and stuff coming from the amp im not going to worry about it.....im sure mesa know alllll about it by now....
and yes how does that screaming guy know so much about these amps!! :?

 

[farren]

Ahh very nice, much less common than mine and with two humbuckers

Take solace in the knowledge that if the Mark VI proves louder than the V and the VII louder than the VI, they will still probably be quieter than a 5150/6505