Why an OD Pedal??

[DaveBorn2Rock]

I have a Keeley modded Sparkle drive. Very nice pedal. I'm really diggin' it! Also have a Scott's Crispy Cream Treblebooster that is amazing!

I also have a sparkle drive (not modded) and I've found that for my tube amp (single channel no gain fender) it really can overdrive the tubes nicely but you also have a ton of control over it. Also I've used it on solid state amps to tighten up gain channels and it works wonders.

 

[MetalMatt]

I don't get it... could someone fill me in please. Why do guys... including guys like Andy Timmons, Joe Satriani, etc... use tube amps that get natural tube saturation overdrive... stick an OD pedal in front of these amps? ....

The OD makes the amp go to 11...

 

[Core9]

OK, thoughts from an "amp purist" here; 8)

We (guitar players in general) go out and buy expensive tube amps for the tone and feel they have, then buy guitars based on the same criteria. We load them with tubes that give some real tone, sag/compression and better feel, while being pushed by aftermarket pups that breathe and sing to no end. Then suck all that good stuff out by running a stomp box in the chain. :lol:

Of the high gain amps I own, I've never had the need to boost them with an overdrive or clean boost pedal. I just always seem to be extemely happy with the natural high gain and feel. My Hiwatt, even though it has a "gain" channel, might be the only amp that might need a push if I wanted it to match the others. But I don't use it for that anyway, it's my clean & LOUD vintage style driven tone. I'd put it's 50 watts up against many 100 watters for shear volume anyday. That biatch screems, but anyway, it does what it does very well. My point is that amps are tuned/designed for different feels and tones, so if you find the need to alter it, maybe you are playing the wrong amp, guitar, pups, etc. As a note, I'm just being honest and I do understand that people are limited to budget or having to use what they have.

I can understand the versatility problem with one/two channel amps and needing more. That would be the only way I would consider adding an overdrive pedal to my set-up as a last resort if I couldn't make it work as is. But if I had to keep using it though, I would start looking for a 3 or 4 channel amp. I really think a two pup guitar with the right pups in it will get the job done just as well.

Recently, for schitz & giggles, since it seems almost everybody and their brother is saying "boosted is the only way to go", I did try running my SD-1 and Bad Monkey in front of several of my amps to see if I was missing something "magical". I bought both dirt cheap at a store closing and figured I'd get my money back if I didin't like them. Well I was not missing anything but tone suck! The SD-1 pulled all of the life out of my overdriven tone, just sounded thin, lifeless and noisy. Or should I say "tightened it up" :lol: ? I'm going to send that pedal off to Keeley and have him work his magic as a last attempt to have this pedal sound good and try again, otherwise it goes in the wasted $$ pile. The bad Monkey (although being a cheap pedal) sounded better because it has a fuller tone range and seems to blend some clean tone back into the signal. But still nothing "magical". :?

Steve Vai runs a Keeley modded DS-1 on the floor live and you can definately hear when he steps on it. I'm not sure that it helps his tone (seems to add a buzzy quality that I don't care for), but it does help his notes ring on forever and play themselves (having a built-in sustainer on the guitar doesn't hurt either :wink: ). And I'm afraid that is the real issue for some people, overcoming a weak ability to play well. I'M NOT SAYING STEVE VAI AND OTHERS HERE CAN'T PLAY WELL. So just relax.

For the guys/girls asking "which boost should I get?", I say get a good compressor and eq to go between your guitar and amp. You can smooth out the signal with the compressor and use the eq to set your own boost curve instead of hoping the (insert pedal name here) has the right tone for your setup out of the box.

As an option for anyone using the clean channel on their amp and wanting to go all pedal for their overdrive/distortion and effects, get the POD XTLive, you'll have more options for tone than you could ever hope for and the sound will be just as good, and in some cases, better than a long line of stomp boxes sucking your tone. And it will cost a lot less.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[twostring]

Nice post Core9

I'll just add that I used to be just like you. I was a proud blues snob and believed it was just pure sin to place anything between the guitar and amp, save for a wah. The only delay worth using started in the TC Electronics rack units and went up from there. Since then, I'm glad I've come back down to earth and realized that if it rocks my boat, then it's good. At one point, a Twin Reverb and a pedalboard with 20+ boxes on it did just that.

After that setup, I moved on to a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe and a Boss GT-8 and I loved it. After using everything on that unit and having over 15 different banks of tones, I started clearing things out and I settled in with two main "amp" tones...a twin reverb model and a rectifier model. After getting back into analog effects, I decided I was time to get rid of the GT-8, but my amp was lacking the feel I had when I was using the GT-8. I loved the Mesa high gain model, so naturally, I started shopping around for a Mesa amp.

Just as I was getting rid of my GT-8/HRD setup, the Roadster came out. I was interested and placed an order so I could try it out. I don't think I could have ended up with a better amp (the Road King is nice, but I hate the EL-34 sound...major Marshall hater here). Between channels 1 and 2, I've got more Fender than I did with my Twin or HRD. The reverb is great, the overdrive channels are great...I love the tones I get with the amp alone. But there's always something more.

I've always loved the sound of a tube screamer going through a cranked Fender. I've always loved what a well designed compressor does to my signal. I've always loved kicking in another overdrive on a high-gain amp. While good amp tone is essential, I don't think one should avoid pedals for "tone purity." I've helped a lot of people put their rigs together, and while I've told more than a few to scrap or modify pedals they felt were "essential", I've also helped them realize that most of those pedals were making up for lackluster amp tones. If you're happy with your amp, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't stack as many pedals as you want to in front of it, but your motives need to be clear. If you don't get jazzed by plugging your guitar direct into the amp, then you're probably not going to get any more joy out of adding pedals to the lineup. If you're happy with your amp tone, then try a few pedals. If you like it, keep it. If you don't like it, throw it as far away as you can and go back to the amp...be inspired, play and create something magical.

On the subject of pedals taking away tone, I have to say I've never understood that idea. If the end result is something the player likes, then no "tone" has been lost. The only thing that has actually taken place is a collaboration between a few pieces of gear that has delivered a sound that the player enjoys. That is all that matters. If there are undesirable "gremlins" in the signal (noise, fuzz, loss of high end), most, if not all of that can be cured with a properly designed and built rig. Buffers, true-bypass loops, switching systems (rack mount the boxes to get them closer to the amp so there is less cable to drive between the stomps and the amp)...there are many things that can be done to clean up the bad parts so the good parts of the pedal/amp mix can be retained and used.

There are just ideas that I try to get new or easily influenced players to understand. There are too many players that give in to the peer pressure on one side or the other of the pedal debate, and it's just not worth it to have another guitarist in the world unhappy with the tones they produce or uninspired that they can't get a certain sound because they've heard that pedals are evil and they just can't go against the masses on the forums and buy a little green/blue/orange/etc box. As far as my own personal tastes...if I can't find a sound from a pedal on the market, I just re-design one and build it so it will get the specific sound I want. If you are OCD at all, this is a bad road to go down. If you think it's time consuming trying out different preamp tubes, think of how many capacitors and resistors you can go through trying to find the combination that matches what you're hearing in your head!!

PS...I read a few years back that several tracks on "Surfing With The Alien" were recorded using a DS-1 jacked direct into the recording console. Also, it's interesting to note that JS rarely mics a speaker cab to record, he just goes direct from the JSX through a Palmer speaker simulator. BLASPHEMY I SAY!!

 

[Core9]

Nice reply. :wink:

Don't get me wrong, I run in this order, a VHT Valvulator, MXR Flanger, MXR Phase 90, and Morley Bad Horsie on the floor between guitar and amp.

I was referring to the use of an OD pedal as asked at the beginning of this thread. I agree that it should be the choice of the user, do what sounds best for you. I personnaly like my grind and sustain to come from the amp's pre and power section.

I've just seen too many players line up many stomp boxes on a board and wonder why they can't get a good tone. Some amps that are on the bright side can benefit from the loss of high end that can happen on long chains.

ROCK ON!

 

[jdurso]

twostring and core those are great posts..... a lot of good points on both sides of the track.... just to add my $.02:

i've just recently experimented with ODs in front of my roadster and to me it just comes down to feel and the chemistry between the OD and the amp.... i'm not sure of all the physics going on in the design a tube amp but the way an OD slams the front end of the amp is something i've never heard from just an amp.... like iver said in another post it FEELS like the amp is more alive..... and this is just with a bbe green sceamer which isnt even as good as the OCD i'm waiting on.... now there's one thing i definitely agree with core on is that if your not happy with your amps tone and NEED the OD to make it sound right, then maybe you need a different amp.... but for me the roadster with an eq in the loop is amazing, the od just lets me add more flavor here and there and basically gives me 4 more tones to work with.... i'm not really one of those guys that is happy with 1 or 2 tones with no fx.... i like a lot of different sounds (even within one style) and i like to use a lot of fx, so an OD just fits logically because it opens up a whole lot more variety for me

 

[Rocky]

The Green Screamer and the OCD have virtually nothing in common tonally.

 

[DaveBorn2Rock]

twostring and core those are great posts..... a lot of good points on both sides of the track.... just to add my $.02:

i've just recently experimented with ODs in front of my roadster and to me it just comes down to feel and the chemistry between the OD and the amp.... i'm not sure of all the physics going on in the design a tube amp but the way an OD slams the front end of the amp is something i've never heard from just an amp.... like iver said in another post it FEELS like the amp is more alive..... and this is just with a bbe green sceamer which isnt even as good as the OCD i'm waiting on.... now there's one thing i definitely agree with core on is that if your not happy with your amps tone and NEED the OD to make it sound right, then maybe you need a different amp.... but for me the roadster with an eq in the loop is amazing, the od just lets me add more flavor here and there and basically gives me 4 more tones to work with.... i'm not really one of those guys that is happy with 1 or 2 tones with no fx.... i like a lot of different sounds (even within one style) and i like to use a lot of fx, so an OD just fits logically because it opens up a whole lot more variety for me

Hey JDurso, TwoString and Core, you guys all clearly put a lot of time and effort into your own rigs. Personally I'm just saving money for a Roadster (and my current rig is way weak) but I was wondering if maybe you guys could possibly share some clips of your own rigs; hearing great guitar tone is one of my favorite things period. Anyway I've read a bunch of posts and it sounds like JDurso, you've put a ton of work into his rig and the fact that TwoString makes his own pedals is awesome to me and Core sounds both knowledgable and passionate about his so I was hoping you all might be willing to share some sound samples (pretty please )

 

[DaveBorn2Rock]

P.S.
I appreciated all of your posts.

 

[jdurso]

The Green Screamer and the OCD have virtually nothing in common tonally.

yeah i know.... the green screamer is on loan so beggers cant be choosers.... i much prefer the ocd but the green screamer doesnt sound bad by any means... it just kind of getting me through right now just like the ibanez soundtank delay i'm using until i can upgrade to an eventide... sorry if i made it seem like i was comparing the two

 

[stompboxfreak72]

I one of those unlucky individuals who has bought every OD pedal known to man and a few more. Its all in what you want out of an amp. I have only ever owned rectifier voiced amps ( SR, DR and the Roadster ) so I have a definite comfort level with what I can produce from the amp. I have been tempted to buy a Mark IV, Stilletto Deuce II or something outside of Mesa but I just have never pulled the trigger. I love the growl of the Rectifier series.

My 2 cents : distortion pedals in front of a Rec is a waste of tone. I have the Keeley Ds-1 and Analogman DS-1 and both are equally harsh. With a Rec I do not need more distortion. I am looking for more sustain. subjective, subjective...

The DR has the great growl but to get there the amp is missing those midrange tones that you need to get great lead tones. This is why I use an MXR 10 band EQ in the loop. I then get the best of both worlds. Had I bought an EQ years ago I could have saved a few thousand on pedals. No lie.

As for pedals I have decided on......the less gain the better. The Xotic Ac booster is great. The Xotic BB preamp is great but has too much gain. The OCD is also a good pedal but has a bit too much gain for me also. I will not part with the pedal yet because I think I need to explore it some more. Tubescreamers sound great in front of a DR because they push the midrange which is what you need in my opinion.

The grand daddy of them all though is the Analogman King of Tone pedal. this pedal has a two year waiting list. I was using the Ac Booster and an Analogman Maxon OD-9 when my name finallly came up for the King of tone pedal. I was not going to buy it since I was content with what I was using and b/c I have blown so much cash on all this stuff. I ended up buying it and could not be happier. The pedal is just a great clean boost.

I cannot stress enough that the less gain an Overdrive pedal gives the more success I have had with it. I am just looking for more sustain so a boost does the trick for me.

I have been toying with making a youtube video and demoing the upteen OD pedals that I own. Someday....

 

[jdurso]

twostring and core those are great posts..... a lot of good points on both sides of the track.... just to add my $.02:

i've just recently experimented with ODs in front of my roadster and to me it just comes down to feel and the chemistry between the OD and the amp.... i'm not sure of all the physics going on in the design a tube amp but the way an OD slams the front end of the amp is something i've never heard from just an amp.... like iver said in another post it FEELS like the amp is more alive..... and this is just with a bbe green sceamer which isnt even as good as the OCD i'm waiting on.... now there's one thing i definitely agree with core on is that if your not happy with your amps tone and NEED the OD to make it sound right, then maybe you need a different amp.... but for me the roadster with an eq in the loop is amazing, the od just lets me add more flavor here and there and basically gives me 4 more tones to work with.... i'm not really one of those guys that is happy with 1 or 2 tones with no fx.... i like a lot of different sounds (even within one style) and i like to use a lot of fx, so an OD just fits logically because it opens up a whole lot more variety for me

Hey JDurso, TwoString and Core, you guys all clearly put a lot of time and effort into your own rigs. Personally I'm just saving money for a Roadster (and my current rig is way weak) but I was wondering if maybe you guys could possibly share some clips of your own rigs; hearing great guitar tone is one of my favorite things period. Anyway I've read a bunch of posts and it sounds like JDurso, you've put a ton of work into his rig and the fact that TwoString makes his own pedals is awesome to me and Core sounds both knowledgable and passionate about his so I was hoping you all might be willing to share some sound samples (pretty please )

right now i dont have anything to record with but i could try and swing over to my buddies rehearsal space (they have a pretty good recording setup for demoing new songs).... i'll see what i can do

just to let you know where i'm coming from with the thought process of a rig.... i've always been a gear head in a sense (even back in the day playing euphonium with various HS regions, states and honors ensembles... go ahead google euphonium and take your shots) and i've always approached every purchase with a lot of research and test driving when i could.... recently i read an adam jones interview in GW that for me was inspiring in a way probably because his approach to gear is similar to mine (i just didnt know it until he said it).... his approach is "i'm going to play this guitar, not any guitar but this one with these pups, and these strings and these picks, etc." .... it kind of hit a chord with me because with a lot of research and knowing what you want to achieve, going about it methodically can save you a lot of time and money.... which is what is so great about this forum because when you get good advice and reviews from your peers, thats half the battle... the other half is seeing if that fits what you want... again this is just my approach and my thoughts on how to get your tone... in the mean time ill look into recording my rig (even though its not done yet)

 

[jdurso]

I cannot stress enough that the less gain an Overdrive pedal gives the more success I have had with it. I am just looking for more sustain so a boost does the trick for me.

+1

its really about slamming the preamp (dirty thoughts just went through my mind).... i realizing i like a little bit of gain but its more about boosting the guitars signal.... have you tried the keeley katana? wondering what your opinion is on an OD with the gain all the way down and just a clean boost? obviously the od with the gain down still has a little gain and a clean boost just boosts your signla without adding anything to your tone, but i'm just wondering tone wise the whats the differences there

 

[Rocky]

Using a series of periods in stead of one (to conclude a sentence) makes your longer posts REALLY awkward and hard to read. Can't tell when you are extending a thought or ending one.

 

[Core9]

twostring and core those are great posts..... a lot of good points on both sides of the track.... just to add my $.02:

i've just recently experimented with ODs in front of my roadster and to me it just comes down to feel and the chemistry between the OD and the amp.... i'm not sure of all the physics going on in the design a tube amp but the way an OD slams the front end of the amp is something i've never heard from just an amp.... like iver said in another post it FEELS like the amp is more alive..... and this is just with a bbe green sceamer which isnt even as good as the OCD i'm waiting on.... now there's one thing i definitely agree with core on is that if your not happy with your amps tone and NEED the OD to make it sound right, then maybe you need a different amp.... but for me the roadster with an eq in the loop is amazing, the od just lets me add more flavor here and there and basically gives me 4 more tones to work with.... i'm not really one of those guys that is happy with 1 or 2 tones with no fx.... i like a lot of different sounds (even within one style) and i like to use a lot of fx, so an OD just fits logically because it opens up a whole lot more variety for me

Hey JDurso, TwoString and Core, you guys all clearly put a lot of time and effort into your own rigs. Personally I'm just saving money for a Roadster (and my current rig is way weak) but I was wondering if maybe you guys could possibly share some clips of your own rigs; hearing great guitar tone is one of my favorite things period. Anyway I've read a bunch of posts and it sounds like JDurso, you've put a ton of work into his rig and the fact that TwoString makes his own pedals is awesome to me and Core sounds both knowledgable and passionate about his so I was hoping you all might be willing to share some sound samples (pretty please )

I copied my post from another thread about recording with a DR

What I did with our last cd was to run and track my signal live like this;

No boost or OD used anywhere on these recordings.
Both Mesa heads set to Spongy and Tube Rec modes.

3 tracks of high gain rhythm tones recorded simultaneously:
Guitar -> VHT Valvulator -> MXR Phase 90 -> MXR Flanger -> Morley Bad Horsie -> Mesa HighGain amp switcher
->Mesa Road King I -> Mesa 2x12 Recto cab panned in the middle
->Mesa DR -> Mesa 4x12 Recto cab panned left
->Mesa Triaxis/2:90 -> Mesa 4x12 Recto cab panned right
Note: All amps were pushed just to point of power tube saturation.

2 tracks of clean guitar tones recorded simultaneously:
Guitar -> VHT Valvulator -> MXR Phase 90 -> MXR Flanger -> Morley Bad Horsie -> Mesa HighGain amp switcher
-> Mesa Triaxis/2:90 -> 4x12 Recto cab panned/blended
-> Soldano SLO -> Mesa 4x12 Recto cab panned/blended
Note: All amps were at medium output.

2 tracks of lead tones recorded simultaneously:
Guitar -> VHT Valvulator -> MXR Phase 90 -> MXR Flanger -> Morley Bad Horsie -> Mesa HighGain amp switcher
-> Mesa Triaxis/2:90 or Hiwatt Custom 50 -> 4x12 Recto cab panned/blended
-> Soldano SLO -> 4x12 Recto cab panned/blended
Note: All amps were pushed into power tube saturation.

All amps were set up for a different tone (basically dialed in for what each is best at). After recording we blended/panned different tones as needed to get the sound we wanted.

A couple of tracks for you can check out:

Breathe
All tracks recorded playing my flame maple/mahogony PRS Custom 24 loaded with EMG 81/85 pups
MXR flanger engaged on the clean intro, guitar lines during the verses and clean breaks after key change

This Rage Is On
All tracks recorded playing my solid flame maple Hamer Californian Elite loaded with EMG 81/SA pups
Bad Horsie used on outro

For You
All tracks recorded playing my flame maple/mahogony PRS Custom 24 loaded with EMG 81/85 pups
MXR flanger engaged on clean bridge section
Note: Intro is actually my bass player on a Hamer 12 string bass.

Visions
All tracks recorded playing my flame maple/mahogony PRS Custom 24 loaded with EMG 81/85 pups

Get out of My Way
All tracks recorded playing my solid flame maple Hamer Californian Elite loaded with EMG 81/SA pups
MXR phase 90 engaged on riffs and verses

Rippin'
All tracks recorded playing my solid flame maple Hamer Californian Elite loaded with EMG 81/SA pups
Bad Horsie used on first half of solo
I played an acoustic guitar to back the clean intro and bridge

As you can see, by tracking the same guitar through multiple amps we had the ability to blend them as needed for each song. This also saves time and money in the studio.

p.s. It's a woman singing, just in case you didn't get it.

 

[jdurso]

Using a series of periods in stead of one (to conclude a sentence) makes your longer posts REALLY awkward and hard to read. Can't tell when you are extending a thought or ending one.

Sorry Rock didnt know we were in eng101 here at the boogie board. From now on i'll use proper grammar and diction so you'll pass me at the end of the semester. I'll pretend i'm emailing my VP when posting on the board this way no one gets confused or feels awkward reading my posts. :wink:

All kidding aside i'll try and cut down on the ellipsis, although i tend to use them correctly (just too much). Since I treat these discussions more like conversations than writing a thesis, I use them as a break in speech. But i'll cut back if you think reading through them is awkward...

 

[jdurso]

Great recording Core. The guitars sound amazing.

 

[Core9]

Great recording Core. The guitars sound amazing.

Thanks.

I added a couple of more to the above post.

We recorded the entire cd (13 tracks) in two weeks, including vocals and preliminary mixdown. Then it was mastered off site. It was fun and stressful at the same time. I would like to have done a few things differently, but as they say, hind sight is,......

 

[jdurso]

Great recording Core. The guitars sound amazing.

Thanks.

I added a couple of more to the above post.

We recorded the entire cd (13 tracks) in two weeks, including vocals and preliminary mixdown. Then it was mastered off site. It was fun and stressful at the same time. I would like to have done a few things differently, but as they say, hind sight is,......

yeah there is always something we'd like to redo. I wish i had the knowledge about gear and tone that i have today when my band recorded. It could have definitely made things easier and made the guitars sound fuller. It didnt sound bad but could have sounded better.

 

[Rocky]

Using a series of periods in stead of one (to conclude a sentence) makes your longer posts REALLY awkward and hard to read. Can't tell when you are extending a thought or ending one.

Sorry Rock didnt know we were in eng101 here at the boogie board. From now on i'll use proper grammar and diction so you'll pass me at the end of the semester. I'll pretend i'm emailing my VP when posting on the board this way no one gets confused or feels awkward reading my posts. :wink:

All kidding aside i'll try and cut down on the ellipsis, although i tend to use them correctly (just too much). Since I treat these discussions more like conversations than writing a thesis, I use them as a break in speech. But i'll cut back if you think reading through them is awkward...

Nobody is grading anything, but punctuation is a little significant when the communication is all via typed word.