Why an OD Pedal??

[GIG4FUN]

It's nice to see everyone get along well here. I was a bit worried about the comments above. I thank you both for being so considerate to each other. :wink:

You gentlemen have my respect.

 

[LEVEL4]

Let me just say . . . this is a GREAT thread! Thanks for EVERYONE'S input on this topic—all great posts! This thread has certainly changed my thinking about OD pedals, and pedals in general. For me, I think it's between the Xotic AC Booster and the BB preamp. Not sure which one to get. I just watched the YouTube clips. I know it's all subjective but, which would be "best" for metal? (I think I'm leaning toward the BB.)

 

[jdurso]

Using a series of periods in stead of one (to conclude a sentence) makes your longer posts REALLY awkward and hard to read. Can't tell when you are extending a thought or ending one.

Sorry Rock didnt know we were in eng101 here at the boogie board. From now on i'll use proper grammar and diction so you'll pass me at the end of the semester. I'll pretend i'm emailing my VP when posting on the board this way no one gets confused or feels awkward reading my posts. :wink:

All kidding aside i'll try and cut down on the ellipsis, although i tend to use them correctly (just too much). Since I treat these discussions more like conversations than writing a thesis, I use them as a break in speech. But i'll cut back if you think reading through them is awkward...

Nobody is grading anything, but punctuation is a little significant when the communication is all via typed word.

I know i was just kidding around. No bad feelings here.

 

[jdurso]

Let me just say . . .this is a GREAT thread! Thanks for EVERYONE'S input on this topic—all great posts! This thread has certainly changed my thinking about OD pedals, and pedals in general. For me, I think it's between the Xotic AC Booster and the BB preamp. Not sure which one to get. I just watched the YouTube clips. I know it's all subjective but, which would be "best" for metal? (I think I'm leaning toward the BB.)

MI Audio's Tubezone gets a pretty good metal tone but it might be overkill in the gain dept infront of any of the amps in your sig. I think if your amp gets you 90% of the way, either the Xotic or BB should be a great fit in terms of adding a little flavor to your tone. But the amp should be getting you your metal tone from the start with the OD just adding that little extra something.

 

[twostring]

twostring and core those are great posts..... a lot of good points on both sides of the track.... just to add my $.02:

i've just recently experimented with ODs in front of my roadster and to me it just comes down to feel and the chemistry between the OD and the amp.... i'm not sure of all the physics going on in the design a tube amp but the way an OD slams the front end of the amp is something i've never heard from just an amp.... like iver said in another post it FEELS like the amp is more alive..... and this is just with a bbe green sceamer which isnt even as good as the OCD i'm waiting on.... now there's one thing i definitely agree with core on is that if your not happy with your amps tone and NEED the OD to make it sound right, then maybe you need a different amp.... but for me the roadster with an eq in the loop is amazing, the od just lets me add more flavor here and there and basically gives me 4 more tones to work with.... i'm not really one of those guys that is happy with 1 or 2 tones with no fx.... i like a lot of different sounds (even within one style) and i like to use a lot of fx, so an OD just fits logically because it opens up a whole lot more variety for me

I can't agree more. If you take a look at the great multi-amp rigs in use, you begin to understand why they are used. For example, mixing a Vox AC-30 with a Marshall JCM800 for mid gain tones. It's like the right hand lacing fingers with the left...the tones of one fill in the gaps in the other. The same goes with using overdrive pedals. The "need" basically begins with the tone stack, which by design cuts a lot of signal depending on the capacitor/resistor filter relationship. If it were that alone (a fixed EQ), it would be bad, but not that bad. Then you add a variable resistor (the pot, or control part of the tone stack) and you've reduced the signal that much more. Now add in the fact that you have three very distinct "shelves" in the tone stack. It's kind of like grating cheese...there are bits that get stuck in the grater. The same thing happens to your guitar signal, but it's very minute. Some frequency "fragments" get cut so much that it's almost as if they don't exist at all. Input caps and other parts of the chain further cut the signal. By the time it hits the speaker, although it sound great, it sounds that way because of the drastic reduction of certain frequencies, the final product is simply amplified and made uber loud. So in the end, it doesn't matter if you crank all the dials, there is still so much cut introduced by the simple fact that those components are in the mix to begin with. Once it's cut, it ain't coming back. But I feel that's where overdrives come into play. By boosting certain frequency bands before the preamp, I feel like you can force these frequencies through the tone stack (it's a complete lie, but I feel it makes enough of a difference to state it that way). Like the example above with the Vox and Marshall, I see the overdrive/amp relation like the lacing of fingers from both hands. Mating a great overdrive and a great amp simply creates a more dynamic tone (but depending on the overdrive, you could end up with a more understated tone than without the overdrive, which could also be the goal...no all pedals have to "add" something to make a guitar tone good). Clearly, many have recognized the tube screamer and how it somehow breathes live into rectifiers.

On the subject of EQs, I've just never felt right with them. Like I pointed out above, the EQ in the amp is going to make drastic cuts. I've always felt that active EQs (the kind that boost) are too artificial sounding. Trying to boost bands after those huge cuts from the EQ in the amp just never sounded like a good idea to me, so my personal rig is devoid of an EQ (although I came quite close to adding a ART tube parametric EQ to my rig because it was just a cool piece of gear, and I favor parametric EQs to graphic anyway). I feel like I've come to terms with the very moody Fender/Mesa type tone stack that I can dial in what I need, and my compressor (which is ALWAYS on, no matter what) tightens my bass and boosts my high and upper-midrange to make up for the losses my signal goes through because of my signal path before the amp, as well as shaping what is in my signal and giving a little pre-boost to some desired frequencies before they are further amplified...essentially giving my favorite bands a little bit of a headstart before the tone stack gauntlet.

Hey JDurso, TwoString and Core, you guys all clearly put a lot of time and effort into your own rigs. Personally I'm just saving money for a Roadster (and my current rig is way weak) but I was wondering if maybe you guys could possibly share some clips of your own rigs; hearing great guitar tone is one of my favorite things period. Anyway I've read a bunch of posts and it sounds like JDurso, you've put a ton of work into his rig and the fact that TwoString makes his own pedals is awesome to me and Core sounds both knowledgable and passionate about his so I was hoping you all might be willing to share some sound samples (pretty please )

Sorry, all I've got is the mic on my camera, and it's all kinds of horrible for really giving you an idea of how everything sounds. On top of it all, my rig is currently in a state of deconstruction. More on this below.

just to let you know where i'm coming from with the thought process of a rig.... i've always been a gear head in a sense (even back in the day playing euphonium with various HS regions, states and honors ensembles... go ahead google euphonium and take your shots) and i've always approached every purchase with a lot of research and test driving when i could.... recently i read an adam jones interview in GW that for me was inspiring in a way probably because his approach to gear is similar to mine (i just didnt know it until he said it).... his approach is "i'm going to play this guitar, not any guitar but this one with these pups, and these strings and these picks, etc." .... it kind of hit a chord with me because with a lot of research and knowing what you want to achieve, going about it methodically can save you a lot of time and money.... which is what is so great about this forum because when you get good advice and reviews from your peers, thats half the battle... the other half is seeing if that fits what you want... again this is just my approach and my thoughts on how to get your tone... in the mean time ill look into recording my rig (even though its not done yet)

I feel the same way, but I've taken a bit of a different approach. I go through rather drastic changes about every three years or so. The only constants in my collection have been my strat, my tube screamer (although I change component values quite often...it's been on average three times a year for the past four years or so), and a good delay. Everything else changes. I've settled on the Roadster for now because it is a very dynamic amplifier, and I'm so happy that the high gain channels do so much more than recto buzz and grind. I would have NEVER guessed that I'd end up with a rectifier because I always hated their tone, which made setting up rigs for rectifier owners such a chore. I've said many times before, I'm probably one of the few rectifier owners that uses this amp for everything EXCEPT the typical rectifier tones. I'm confident that as my tastes change, this amp has enough range in it to make those changes with me...a point I've proven to myself at least twice since I bought this amp. I just get to the point where I hate several bits about my sound and need to dump the lot and start over. From my last setup, I've dropped my custom built octave-fuzz, my Dunlop 535Q (which replaced a Morley BH-2 that didn't last long in my rig at all...a simply horrid piece of gear IMO), and a Danelectro delay that was great for seven years, but what can I say, I don't love her anymore.

I also sold guitars and added new ones. Out went the EB/MM Silhouette and in came an Epiphone Dot and a custom telecaster I put together. Like the Adam Jones quote above, I just get this itch and my brain says "I need to play an ES-335 style guitar"...I'm just dead set on that sound. The same thing happened with the telecaster. The funniest bit going on right now is my Les Paul fixation, which makes me feel like I'm cracking up because I've had a lifelong hatred for the logs. But right now, that's the sound I'm hearing and feeling, I just don't have the guitar...yet.

As for pedals, once again, I have them picked because it's the sound I feel (if that makes any sense). Soon to some, an MXR Carbon Copy delay, Fulltone Deja Vibe, Fulltone Choral Flange, and a custom wah. I've decided that the market just doesn't have the wah for me, so like many other things, I've researched and designed one and will be building it within the next month. Key features...18V charge pump, dual inductors in series, wide sweep and a clean boost section in front of the wah circuit that can be bypassed if desired. Additional overdrives come and go as I design and build them...they rock my world for a while, but when they don't anymore, I let them rock for others.

I cannot stress enough that the less gain an Overdrive pedal gives the more success I have had with it. I am just looking for more sustain so a boost does the trick for me.

I feel the same way, but I also have to say that I like the way clipping diodes in the feedback loop of an overdrive affect the signal, especially when it is an asymmetrical clipping arrangement. By cutting harmonics on one side of the wave before hitting the preamp, then cranking the amp to the point that it clips the signal even further, I feel I achieve a very compressed and...well...gushy overdriven tone. This is usually my lead sound...this usually doesn't play well for 3+ note clusters unless the voicing is rather major. Minor arrangements are usually full of blargness (that's a technical term).

its really about slamming the preamp (dirty thoughts just went through my mind).... i realizing i like a little bit of gain but its more about boosting the guitars signal.... have you tried the keeley katana? wondering what your opinion is on an OD with the gain all the way down and just a clean boost? obviously the od with the gain down still has a little gain and a clean boost just boosts your signla without adding anything to your tone, but i'm just wondering tone wise the whats the differences there

Clean boosts also introduce their own amount of cut in the signal. The more boosts I build, the more I realize that you can't really build a signal boost circuit without introducing a little bit of cut somewhere. Again, the end result is usually desired anyway, no matter how much cut is in the arrangement.

Using a series of periods in stead of one (to conclude a sentence) makes your longer posts REALLY awkward and hard to read. Can't tell when you are extending a thought or ending one.

HA...yeah, I use those a lot, but it tends to reflect the way I speak better than anything else (that and parenthesis, which I just used right now...see how that all worked out?).

If you've read all this...well...God bless you.

 

[Kaz]

Twostring, that was EPIC. Very insightful! And I'm glad you like the Roadster, it's an amazing amp.

 

[Rocky]

Sorry Rock didnt know we were in eng101 here at the boogie board. From now on i'll use proper grammar and diction so you'll pass me at the end of the semester. I'll pretend i'm emailing my VP when posting on the board this way no one gets confused or feels awkward reading my posts. :wink:

All kidding aside i'll try and cut down on the ellipsis, although i tend to use them correctly (just too much). Since I treat these discussions more like conversations than writing a thesis, I use them as a break in speech. But i'll cut back if you think reading through them is awkward...

Nobody is grading anything, but punctuation is a little significant when the communication is all via typed word.

I know i was just kidding around. No bad feelings here.

me either, just wanted to make sure that you didnt think I was being nasty

 

[Newysurfer]

I agree with most of the comments above. For me I only use 1 distortion pedal and 1 OD pedal purely to get tonal flavours my 5:50 can't do. I had a Marshall JCM900 before getting my Mesa. I luv those cranked Marshall JCM900, JCM800 and Plexi tones. Mesa has legendary American flavour distortion and can't do the British flavours so I use a Crunchbox pedal to give me those classic Marshall tones. Likewise the 5:50's blues channel is fabulous but won't give you that classic Tubescreamer SRV type tone. So I use an Analogman mo'ded TS-808 pedal to get those tones.

Mesa's are very versatile amps but can't nail every flavour. No amp can.

 

[scruffydoo]

I just got a BB preamp specifically for boosting the roadster cleaner channels 1 & 2, I don't use it at all on 3 & 4 as I'm delighted with the sound as is. I chose this mainly because it doesn't suck tone in any way and is silent when engaged.

I don't particularly like the brit setting on channel 2 of the roadster which leaves me the option of either the clean or fat setting and as I have channel 1 on fat (I prefer this for a clean sound actually) already that doesn't leave me anywhere to go with this so I set channel 2 to fat, max the gain and boost it with the BB giving me a nice warm bluesy overdrive tone before switching up to the raw classic rock style of ch3 and crushing modern ch 4.

I'm a big beleiver in 'if it sounds good it is good no matter what you use to get there' for me pedals definately have there place in a practical sense although I would rather just use amp tone and distortion as I prefer very simple rigs but somehow I've ended up with a pretty complex one :? jvm + roadster + rack effects + pedals, all thru a GC pro.

Hey jdurso, I also got an RG-16 from oasis, perhaps I can pick your brains for the setup nightmare that awaits me when it arrives.

The BB is definately 100% reccomended.

 

[srf399]

Mesas can't do the British flavour? Hmmmm Maybe yours can't. Mine certainly can.

 

[scruffydoo]

I didn't say that, I simply tried it for about 30 seconds and didn't like it, I'm sure I could dial it in a lot better but obviously there's no point when its sat next to a marshall.

 

[jdurso]

Nobody is grading anything, but punctuation is a little significant when the communication is all via typed word.

I know i was just kidding around. No bad feelings here.

me either, just wanted to make sure that you didnt think I was being nasty

At first i wasn't sure because for the past few days i was floating around the Metallica forum where you get flamed for breathing the wrong way. But then i realized that we dont have much of that mumbo jumbo going on here... at least when the discussion is not the quality of Schecter guitars or who knows more about the Ibanez JEM series ( :lol: sorry Rocky couldn't help myself, but that thread is hilarious over in the guitars section).

 

[jdurso]

I just got a BB preamp specifically for boosting the roadster cleaner channels 1 & 2, I don't use it at all on 3 & 4 as I'm delighted with the sound as is. I chose this mainly because it doesn't suck tone in any way and is silent when engaged.

I don't particularly like the brit setting on channel 2 of the roadster which leaves me the option of either the clean or fat setting and as I have channel 1 on fat (I prefer this for a clean sound actually) already that doesn't leave me anywhere to go with this so I set channel 2 to fat, max the gain and boost it with the BB giving me a nice warm bluesy overdrive tone before switching up to the raw classic rock style of ch3 and crushing modern ch 4.

I'm a big beleiver in 'if it sounds good it is good no matter what you use to get there' for me pedals definately have there place in a practical sense although I would rather just use amp tone and distortion as I prefer very simple rigs but somehow I've ended up with a pretty complex one :? jvm + roadster + rack effects + pedals, all thru a GC pro.

Hey jdurso, I also got an RG-16 from oasis, perhaps I can pick your brains for the setup nightmare that awaits me when it arrives.

The BB is definately 100% reccomended.

i'm waiting on the cable which they said they had in stock but didnt so hopefully RJM has it in the mail to me already. I've had the unit for a week and its just sitting in its box teasing me. But maybe thats a good thing so i can take my time figuring out which cables to by because with the rg-16 you need a lot of cables and plugs. But yeah as soon as i'm done i'm going to post some pictures and will help you out if you ever need any advice.

 

[jdurso]

So................ I head over to GC after work today to get some extra cables until i decide how i want to wire my rig and what do i see sitting there on the accessories desk? an OCD!! Then my cell starts ringing and its my buddy who is the manager there calling to say the OCD came in. So much to his suprise i walk up to the counter where he was at and he packs up that bad boy with some of the cheap live wire cables i picked up.

So i race home and replace the Green Screamer (which he ended up just giving me for nothing ) with the OCD and wow.... WOW... :shock: ... ...... a little tweaking of the pedal and my amp and I could not believe the amount of harmonics i started hearing. I have Channel 1 set to Tweed with gain at about 10 oclock, treble at 1, mids at 11, bass at 12, and volume at 12. With the OCD in front set with the volume at 3 oclock, gain at 9 and tone at 11 i had it sounding like this sweet Bad Cat amp i played a few years ago. Those settings on the OCD work really well with all four channels.

I also did a quick setup of the RG-16 with some cheap cables (little tone sucking with my delay but i'll live for now). What an awesome product. if only Guitar Oasis would get there **** straight and not sell me a cable that they didnt have stocked. So when the cable finally gets in i'll finally be able to control the Roadster via midi. But the line buffer on the RG-16 is amazing and almost worth the price of the unit itself.

 

[srf399]

I went the other way... I've never played a Marshall I liked. Had an old JMP and hated it. I love the Stiletto. I do love the Bogner Ecstasy101B more though

 

[Newysurfer]

Mesas can't do the British flavour? Hmmmm Maybe yours can't. Mine certainly can.

If your Stiletto can sound like a cranked JCM800 I'd like to hear it. Same goes for any Mesa. Post an mp3 of "Highway to Hell" and let's hear it. I don't think there're better - just different.

 

[leblanc74]

Mesas can't do the British flavour? Hmmmm Maybe yours can't. Mine certainly can.

If your Stiletto can sound like a cranked JCM800 I'd like to hear it. Same goes for any Mesa. Post an mp3 of "Highway to Hell" and let's hear it. I don't think there're better - just different.

please share those settings?... thanks...

 

[scruffydoo]

i'm waiting on the cable which they said they had in stock but didnt so hopefully RJM has it in the mail to me already. I've had the unit for a week and its just sitting in its box teasing me. But maybe thats a good thing so i can take my time figuring out which cables to by because with the rg-16 you need a lot of cables and plugs. But yeah as soon as i'm done i'm going to post some pictures and will help you out if you ever need any advice.

Appreciate that, thanks buddy. PM sent.

 

[scruffydoo]

I went the other way... I've never played a Marshall I liked. Had an old JMP and hated it. I love the Stiletto. I do love the Bogner Ecstasy101B more though

I've got to say I much prefer the mesa tone to the marshall as well but I do like the marshall sound for certain stuff, if my garage was on fire though I'd run straight past it and grab the mesa. :lol: I'd like to try a stiletto.

 

[srf399]

I like the EL34 British tone better than the Mesa 6L6 tone... however I prefer the Bogner and Mesa version of it more than the Marshall.... I'm playing a Stiletto because I can't afford the Bogner and wifey is standing behind me with a big stick! lol .

Having said that... To each his own... it's all subjective. I prefer the fender blackface bounce that the Bogners and Stilettos get out of the EL34's. Marshalls EL34 cleans don't do it for me. And for me the Stiletto's and Bogner Ecstasy both have a better quality high gain sound than any Marshall I've played including the new JVM. Again it's all personal preference. Don't take it personal. But when you say Mesa's don't do the British sound you're way off base. They nail it better than any Marshall does for me personally.