who owns a mesa express amp?

[soundchaser59]

Hey Soundchaser - How would you say the 2x12 changes the sound of your 5:25? Do you use the 1x10 combo speaker with the 2x12 cab?

I found that the 1x10 speaker alone in the combo seems to breaks up faster compared when I have the combo hooked up to my 1x12 C90 mesa cab. Also, the 1x12 widebody mesa cab adds more depth and bass to the sound.

The 2x12 is a closed back ported cab that I got from Griffiths Sound Works in Des Moines. I put two alnico Tone Tubbys in it. So it is awesome with any amp. It brings out the full impact of the mids and lows, and shows how articulate the lower end of the Express really is. I'm impressed. A 10 inch speaker just wont do that. I doubt that even a high end 10 inch EV speaker can bring that out as well as a good 12 inch can.

I do sometimes try the 12 inch and the 10 inch cab together, but I use my 2x10 alnico cab, not the internal Black Shadow speaker. I've distanced myself from the ceramic sound, and it's hard to go back. I have used alnico speakers exclusively for the last 6 months or so. I will be putting a 10 inch 100 watt alnico Weber Michigan in my Express soon, it's ordered.

I'm getting almost the exact sound I want by using an EQ pedal and a compressor in front of the Express. With that rig, I dont need any kind of boost or overdrive. (But I am going to test drive an EHX English Muffin!)

If I may add, I dont think anyone will notice a huge difference between the various Celestion speakers. THere is more difference between 10's and 12's than there is between the various 12 inchers. I have bought and sold maybe 3 dozen different Celestion 12 inch speakers, and the thing that amazed me really was how similar they all are. The only ones that really stand out at all are the Vintage 30, the Greenback, and the Hot 100. The Black Shadows are nice, but they are still Celestions. I've grown to have no special attachment to the Celestion sound. Once you get into the Webers and Emi's, you'll find out why. I think the Celestions tend to appeal mostly to the heavy metal crowd, because alnicos and Emi's are not especially well suited to heavy metal distortion. But for classic rock and blues thru a ceramic speaker, nothing can touch the Webers and Emi's in that price range. The 100 watt Jensen C12K is an honorable mention.

If you want to hear a strikingly different sound, try some of the high power Eminence speakers. The Swamp Thang and the Tonker are especially hard hitting, and the hemp-impregnated Cannabis Rex is great for blues and classic rock sounds. If you want to splurge and live dangerously, try the 100 watt alnico Jensen Jet Blackbird. I'm convinced that anybody (other than heavy metal guys) who really gets to know the alnico sound, will never go back.

 

[stevemetalheart]

Hi to everyone here,I'm a new member and have just bought my first ever Boogie,the Express 5:50.Wow what a class act this amp is,very pricey here in the UK but worth every penny.I traded my Marshall jvm combo with cash for this baby and never been happier!.A friend of mine let me borrow his mesa express for a couple of days and when I played it next to my jvm there was no contest.Sure the marshall could get heavier sounding but it sounded so sterile compared to the boogie and the build quality of the mesa puts the marshall to shame.I only wish I tried mesa amps years ago.Very happy guitarist

 

[Don]

In a couple of other thereads I mentioned that I tried my Express 5:50 with an Eminence Tonker intead of the C90 that it came with.
The Tonker is much louder, brighter and more articulate. It's also less fat and smooth.

I'm not sure which one I like better and might buy a cab to put the Tonker in. They sound great together though the C90 needs to be on top to be heard.

Speakers make a huge difference in the amp's sound.

 

[Skully]

I got the 5:50 Express about 4 months ago with the Vintage 30 in it, I love it. I'm currently looking for a good 2 x 12 closed back extension for it.

 

[lia01reg]

Hi guys,

My first post too on this forum. I bought a 5:25 10" Express last year and I was amazed by the versatility in sound and applications. Recently, when I've been at band practice I've noticed that the amps my other guitarist uses tend to sound more open sounding and less mid-range focused (Orange Rockerverb 50w combo and various marshall heads and cabs previously). Even if my amp is so loud it distorts the recording we make - his amp always shines through. He always uses a 1x12 minimum (2x12 more often than not).

I tried using the blues tone to get a brighter sound but it just seems to sound scratchy rather than bright. Even playing with the EQ just sounds dodgy.

I was thinking perhaps it is a limitation of the amp as a whole but people seem to be getting good results using an extension cab.

Does anyone have any recommendations to get a more open and bright sound?

Rig: Mesa Boogie 5:15 10"
Rickenbacker 620 (single coils)
Tube screamers (TS-808 mod for overdrive usually)

Cheers,

Raj

 

[MrMason]

I'd say it's the speaker mainly. Also, he's playing a 50 watt and you're playing a 25 watt. It shouldn't be that big of a difference, but he may be one of those people that wants a wall of sound. You may be able to tweak your EQ as well, usually what sounds good by yourself doesn't sound right in a band setting. EQ settings can have a much bigger affect on perceived volume than the volume knob in a lot of cases.

 

[lia01reg]

Thanks for your answer. That sounds about right, I just tried using my 16ohm 1x12 Celestion Greenback in my Marshall DSL-201 (playing with impedancies here!) as an ext cabinet and then as the sole cabinet and that made a massive difference - much better!

When I was sharing the sound between the 1x10 8ohm internal speaker and the 1x12 16ohm ext cab the sound was naturally leaning towards the 1x10 internal speaker. I didn't really like the sound it was making - preferred the 1x12 by a mile.

I'm thinking of getting a 1x12 8ohm ext cabinet then and using that solely and ignoring the 1x10 8ohm internal speaker. If I were to use the 1x10 8ohm internal speaker with the 1x12 8ohm external cabinet the sound should theoretically balance between the two.

>> Do you think the overall sound would be better solely because the 1x12 cab is sounding more (therefore producing more 'good' sound from the ext cab and relatively less 'bad' sound from the internal speaker) or do you think the sound coming from the internal speaker will actually improve too?

 

[soundchaser59]

I gotta be honest though, thats not the sound that draws me to the Express and Mesa in general and its cool to know I can tap into that if need be, but I am ditching this 2x12 and getting a cab with something more like the C90.

Why not keep the cab and just put better speakers in it? The G12T75's are ok, but they are still ceramic Celestions, not my fav either. Stick a couple of Weber alnico Blue Dogs in there, or a Blue Dog and a Jensen Blackbird and then see if you still wanna get rid of that cab!

This Express is the quietest amp I've ever had. I put a noise gate pedal on my chain and the thing is dead silent when I stop playing.

 

[soundchaser59]

Thanks for your answer. That sounds about right, I just tried using my 16ohm 1x12 Celestion Greenback in my Marshall DSL-201 (playing with impedancies here!) as an ext cabinet and then as the sole cabinet and that made a massive difference - much better!

When I was sharing the sound between the 1x10 8ohm internal speaker and the 1x12 16ohm ext cab the sound was naturally leaning towards the 1x10 internal speaker. I didn't really like the sound it was making - preferred the 1x12 by a mile.

I'm thinking of getting a 1x12 8ohm ext cabinet then and using that solely and ignoring the 1x10 8ohm internal speaker. If I were to use the 1x10 8ohm internal speaker with the 1x12 8ohm external cabinet the sound should theoretically balance between the two.

>> Do you think the overall sound would be better solely because the 1x12 cab is sounding more (therefore producing more 'good' sound from the ext cab and relatively less 'bad' sound from the internal speaker) or do you think the sound coming from the internal speaker will actually improve too?

Be careful with that Greenback, a tube amp can sometimes spit out a bit more than its rating if you drive it wide open. That's why they always put 60 watt Vintage 30 in a 50 watt amp, 25 watt Greenback in a 15 watt amp, etc.... I dont like speaker breakup, so I always get high power speakers. I put a 100 watt speaker in a 20 watt amp, it was nice.

I doubt the sound ofthe internal will change. The balance you hear will have more to do with the efficiency of the 12 inch. Even if all the specs are matched, the 12 inch will always sound a bit bigger. More cone = more sound given the same power and same efficiency. Put a Tonker in that ext cab and you will never hear your internal 10 inch. I'm putting a 100 watt alnico Michigan in my Express. It is bound to be a major improvement over that Black Shadow. The 12 inch Black Shadow is much better, and I'm surprised they are still making new combos like this with 10 inch speakers. But nothing I've tried beats the Blue Dog. (I cant afford EV's or JBL's yet!)

 

[MrMason]

>> Do you think the overall sound would be better solely because the 1x12 cab is sounding more (therefore producing more 'good' sound from the ext cab and relatively less 'bad' sound from the internal speaker) or do you think the sound coming from the internal speaker will actually improve too?

If you're keeping the combo, I would try using the internal speaker and the extension 2x12 together. I'm assuming the 1x10 would sound a lot better for cleans, and the 2x12 would make the dirty stuff more beefy; possibly you could have the best of both worlds by combining the two.

 

[lia01reg]

Thanks for all of the replies guys, I'm learning a lot of stuff here.

I'm thinking the most economical way to get a great sounding set up would be to either:

(a)

- Sell my Marshall DSL-201 amp (Greenback 16ohm 1x12 - the ext cabinet I'm using at the moment)
- buy a nice 1x12 cab
- install a new 10" speaker on my internal 1x10

(b)

- Sell the 1x12 16ohm greenback speaker in my Marshall DSL201
- replace with a more suitable 1x12 8ohm speaker
- install a new 10" speaker on my internal 1x10

I find that the 1x10" in the express I have at the moment just lacks top end and always sound a bit muffled.

>> Does anyone else find this problem? Do you think it's just the nature of a 1x10 or would I be well off the replace it for a fuller sound?

>> The Marshall DSL-201 isn't a great amp but the cab doesn't sound too bad. Do you think I'd be better off getting a proper MESA 1x12 cab/dedicated cab or just upgrading the speaker in the Marshall?

>> Does anyone have any idea how much I might get for the Marshall on eBay?

Sorry - millions of questions.

Cheers,

Raj

 

[rwil]

Here is an interesting comparative evaluation of guitar speakers.
Amazing how much various speakers sounds different...

http://www.eminence.com/soundclips.asp

 

[soundchaser59]

If you're keeping the combo, I would try using the internal speaker and the extension 2x12 together. I'm assuming the 1x10 would sound a lot better for cleans, and the 2x12 would make the dirty stuff more beefy; possibly you could have the best of both worlds by combining the two.

Yes! If they are both 8 ohm cabs, then plug each one into a 4 ohm jack and start screaming! It will sound awesome!

 

[lia01reg]

Yes! If they are both 8 ohm cabs, then plug each one into a 4 ohm jack and start screaming! It will sound awesome!

I've just realised I've got a vintage 30 16ohm in my Marshall - not a green back. I quite like the sound of 4x12 Orange cabs so I'm going to swap the 16ohm version for the 8ohm version and wire it up with some nice beefy wire. Hopefully when the sound is even between the 1x12 and the internal 1x10 it will sound better than it does using the 1x12 16 ohm as an extension cab.

I wonder if the 1x12 8ohm will be louder than the 1x10 8ohm internal - that's definitely the sound I want to promote.

Looking back at it, I'm surprised they shipped the 5:25 express with a 10" speaker - my 12" vintage 30 even running in 16 ohms sounds so much better. IMHO the 10" speaker doesn't do the Mesa brand justice.

 

[soundchaser59]

Looking back at it, I'm surprised they shipped the 5:25 express with a 10" speaker - my 12" vintage 30 even running in 16 ohms sounds so much better. IMHO the 10" speaker doesn't do the Mesa brand justice.

And with the kind of speakers they are using, it is not that much of a price point change to make it a 1x12 combo in the first place. If the 5.25 had been a 12 inch when I bought mine, and I played it next to the 5.50, I still would have bought the 5.25 no contest. I just like the smoother EL84 sound. But with that 10 inch speaker in there, I had to ask the sales girl to plug both amps into the same 1x12 cab so I could compare. That was the only way I could be sure that the 5.25 amp itself was better for me. The 10 inch speaker will never do justice for any good amp. 1x12 should be the minimum for any good amp.

If you wanna know, just try selling your C50 Black Shadow on ebay and see how little you end up getting for it. You'll be lucky to get $100 bucks for it shipped. It's custom spec, but under that cool sticker its still just a 10 inch ceramic Celestion. I would gladly have paid an extra $100 bucks at the retail counter to step up to a 1x12 5.25 Express.

 

[espresso]

Has Mesa been putting Celestions in the 5:25 lately? Mine says E50 which is an Eminence.

 

[soundchaser59]

Has Mesa been putting Celestions in the 5:25 lately? Mine says E50 which is an Eminence.

I bet you are right. Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure the 5.50 has a C90 in it, but I've done so many speaker swaps with so many amps I get 'em mixed up. Maybe the Black Shadow was an E50 and the Vox was a C60....or something. Either way, the 5.25 needs a 12 inch speaker to really do the amp justice. And the E50 probably wont have as much resale value as a C60 Black Shadow would. I never did get more than $100 bucks for any Black Shadow speaker I sold. Certainly never got more than $100 for any Emi either.

Only thing I am sure of is the Weber alnico will be a major improvement.

 

[Don]

I believe that the 10" speaker is what I didn't like about the 5:20. It gave it a "boxy" tone compared to the LSS and 5:50 1 x 12.

I wanted to like the 5:25 because of it's compact size but needed the tone of the 5:50.

It could've also just been that I love 6L6 power tubes!

 

[mesaluckystrike]

When I was sharing the sound between the 1x10 8ohm internal speaker and the 1x12 16ohm ext cab the sound was naturally leaning towards the 1x10 internal speaker. I didn't really like the sound it was making - preferred the 1x12 by a mile.

I'm thinking of getting a 1x12 8ohm ext cabinet then and using that solely and ignoring the 1x10 8ohm internal speaker. If I were to use the 1x10 8ohm internal speaker with the 1x12 8ohm external cabinet the sound should theoretically balance between the two.

>> Do you think the overall sound would be better solely because the 1x12 cab is sounding more (therefore producing more 'good' sound from the ext cab and relatively less 'bad' sound from the internal speaker) or do you think the sound coming from the internal speaker will actually improve too?[/quote]


I have an epiphone valve jr 1x12 ext cab (16ohm). It has a ladyluck emi speaker in it. I also have a 1x12 3/4 back mesa ext cab (8ohm) with a c90 black shadow. I have tested at pretty much all the combinations with my 1x10 5:25 express combo. The setup I like the most is the 1x10 combo speaker in the 4ohm slot along with the mesa 1x12 in the other 4 ohm slot. I think this combination of speakers compliments each other very nicely. It has a lot more presence than either one alone and the sound is just a lot warmer. Another cool setup is the 1x12 mesa cab with the 1x12 epi. But when I have this together I usually position the epi cab on the other side of the room, which gives a nice effect when using a delay. One last thing; my tc nova delay has a stereo input to use two amps at once. I have a 74 princeton reverb that I connect with the 1x10 express combo which is another great setup, especially using the pan function with the delay.

 

[soundchaser59]

Now it is official!

This alnico Michigan is easily the best thing I coulda done for this Express amp! WOW! Exactly what the tone doctor ordered!