Was I expecting too much?

[Matt15f]

I kind of ran into the same problem you did.

I also observed while listening to the videos I recorded, it sounded better than while playing the amp live, sounded closer to the online clips I had been listening to as a reference point. I think cheaper microphones compress the sound or something and causes it to sound more distorted.

 

[jdurso]

I'll look around for an OCD pedal and try putting that in front ...

Guess I was just expecting way too much

i dont think you expected too much from the amp, but maybe from your whole setup. keep in mind the amp is just one part of creating the tone you want. Your guitar, pickups, cables, and cab(s) play just as big a part. It seems like you have a powerful enough amp, with super hot pups and a nice sounding guitar so that would lead me to believe the issue maybe somewhere else, or that your amp needs new preamp tubes.

honestly listening to your clips you would greatly benefit from a better cab, especially something with vintage 30s. you'd be supprised as to what a good cab does to your tone... it doesnt give you more gain as mentioned but what it does give you is a fuller tone with a bigger bottom(depending on the cab). an OCD wouldnt be bad either but start with your cab and if you have the $$$ for the OCD or other OD pedal. I think both of those will get you a lot closer. also, why el34s? i think the added girth of the 6l6s would get you closer to the tone you want. kt77s are also a great alternative if you dig el34s but want the girth of a 6l6.

but i would say before you do any sort of buying or swapping, consult the manual. all too many people buy a mesa and think it works like other amps (not saying thats you), and what they find is they dial in what they think should sound good and it ends up sounding like ***. so again, consult the manual, learn what everything does, and try the settings they have in the back of the manual. they are great starting points to sculpt your tone.

 

[Adamant]

I tried the el34's as it seemed everyone suggested using them with this amp and I wanted to see what the fuss was all about but honestly I couldn't tell much of a difference to justify buying them ...

I'll shop around for a cab with some vintage 30's

I'm just a bit confused as to why my tone goes from decent to flat & extremely bassy when cranking up the volume, even dialing down the bass doesn't help ... Far from the brutal gain mesa's are said to throw out

I love the cleans and the overall sound of tube amps but I really want the distortion I find from pedals ... or is that simply not feasible?

 

[jdurso]

I tried the el34's as it seemed everyone suggested using them with this amp and I wanted to see what the fuss was all about but honestly I couldn't tell much of a difference to justify buying them ...

well you wont hear a big difference at lower levels, but at higher levels and when comparing cleans there will be a huge difference. look into a new set of 6l6s (maybe JJs) or even KT77. you may find you prefer the sound of other tubes int that amp. come to think of it i wonder if those el34s are clipping on you. basically once you hit the clipping point you wont hear that big a change in volume but more and more tube compression which is something i dont like too much of because everything will tend to sound squashed and muddy.

I'll shop around for a cab with some vintage 30's

i recommend a mesa traditional cab as it will have a huge sound but will remain tight. the standard cab sounds even bigger but with a looser bottom end. other great cabs are the vht fat bottom, Randall R412CB, Randall R412XLTX, or even a bogner cab if you can afford it.

I'm just a bit confused as to why my tone goes from decent to flat & extremely bassy when cranking up the volume, even dialing down the bass doesn't help ... Far from the brutal gain mesa's are said to throw out

are you running the amp in the loop bypass mode? if you dont try that mode because i find not having it in that mode reuqires balancing your preamp level (master) and your power amp level (output) to get the right tone. i like running my masters around 11 oclock and adjusting my output till i find the sweet spot. i find that method gets me more punch and less mud.

I love the cleans and the overall sound of tube amps but I really want the distortion I find from pedals ... or is that simply not feasible?

i'd say along with the cab change you may want to try a few distortion/od boxes and see if one of them gets you closer to your tone. something like the OCD or a maxon od808 as they're great pedals for getting more out of your amp without coloring your tone that much. for drive pedals i'd stick to the analog stuff as it just sounds better (to me that is).

 

[Botch]

I know other people have already suggested this but have you actually got round to changing the PRE amp tubes yet? If you haven't you'll notice a huge difference. If you don't then to put it simply your amp must be f*cked. There's absolutely no reason for you not being able to get as much gain from it as that As I Lay Dying.

FWIW I had to put my amazing sounding 2 channel recto thru a Crate cab a band practice for about half an hour whilst someone was using my usual cab and it made my amp sound as bad as the head that goes with that cab, serioulsy get a different cab but not before you get some new pre amp tubes.

 

[clutch71]

Sounds like there is a couple of things going on here. No offense but seems like you need to do a little reading in tube function and type. Only having solid state to compare it too, and a relative limited knowledge of tube type and tube function; It's going to be difficult for us to help you trouble shoot this.

Read your Mesa manual and pay close attention to Randall Smith article on tubes. It also couldn't hurt to read up on dougtubes website the role and type of different tubes. The EL's you bought may not be within the recommended mesa range for a fixed bias amp. They may be a little cold.

You've swapped tubes (all of them sounds like) and you've got the same effect. Your gain on 3 o'clock should be oversaturated and very flubby especially where you had the treble and the master and output. If at 3 o'clock your gain sounds like the youtube video of that recording, my guess is you've got a bad grid resistor. Take the SR to a certified Mesa Tech. I had one out in a DR and it was a 60 dollar fix. I could get the gain I wanted but had to dime the gain to get a level of saturation I was used to at noon or 1 o'clock. FYI...the master and output at 12 should be cat killing loud.

Lastly, moving forward, always make only one change at a time. Before you go swapping cabs and trying different OD's i'd focus on the head first. Somethings not right and maybe it's something you can't fix without a tech.

Good luck.

 

[Adamant]

are you running the amp in the loop bypass mode? if you dont try that mode because i find not having it in that mode reuqires balancing your preamp level (master) and your power amp level (output) to get the right tone. i like running my masters around 11 oclock and adjusting my output till i find the sweet spot. i find that method gets me more punch and less mud.

What's this loop bypass mode? I don't remember reading about it in the manual .. is it feature just on the dual and triples?

 

[Adamant]

I'll try out the Mesa Single Rec High Gain Option with KT88's from eurotubes first ...

I still wanted a new cab initially so I'll sell this one and shop around for a mesa cab.

Is there a listing of Mesa techs? I live in Ripley, NY so hopefully there is one close by.

 

[jdurso]

are you running the amp in the loop bypass mode? if you dont try that mode because i find not having it in that mode reuqires balancing your preamp level (master) and your power amp level (output) to get the right tone. i like running my masters around 11 oclock and adjusting my output till i find the sweet spot. i find that method gets me more punch and less mud.

What's this loop bypass mode? I don't remember reading about it in the manual .. is it feature just on the dual and triples?

it maybe only on duals and triples (havent had a rectoverb in a while)... look on the back of the amp, if you have the bypass switch it'll say hard bypass or loop engaged or somehting along those lines. but again you may not have it on the ROV

 

[jdurso]

I'll try out the Mesa Single Rec High Gain Option with KT88's from eurotubes first ...

I still wanted a new cab initially so I'll sell this one and shop around for a mesa cab.

Is there a listing of Mesa techs? I live in Ripley, NY so hopefully there is one close by.

its been mentioned a few times but before you go to the kt88s change your preamp tubes. actually before doing that take it to a certified mesa tech... here are the techs in NY:
Dealer Address Phone

- Amp & Guitar Wellness Center 1700 Tenth Ave Brooklyn NY 11215 (718) 369-7080

- JFK ELectronics 67 Sprucewood Drive Cheektowaga NY 14227 (716) 668-7858

- SG Custom Sound 40-33 235th Street Douglaston NY 11363 (718) 224-5083
- Techni-Serve 180 Carpenter Ave Middletown NY 10940 (845) 343-1125

- Nau Engineering 7 Mapleton N Chili NY 14514 (585) 594-8129

- A440 Audio 24 W. 30th Street New York NY 10001 (212)685-6828

- Armen's Amp Repair 251 W. 30th St. New York NY 10001 (212) 563-4514

- Ossining Music 144-146 Croton Ave Ossining NY 10562 (914) 762-0877

- Davidson Electronics 117 Newtown Road. Plainview NY 11803 (516)753-0197

 

[TomiR]

It really sounds like you need an overdrive pedal like the Ibanez TS(9 or 808)

Don't use the pedal to bring more gain, but to drive the preamp tubes harder and to remove some of that flubby low that you are experiencing.

It is pretty much an "industry standard" in the metal scene. Some amps don't necessarily need one, but if you want a tight'ish metal rhythm from a Recto, get one!

I just uploaded a new clip I did with my Recto: http://www.soundclick.com/tomir

Mine is a Triple though. Don't pay attention to the crappy drums :lol:

I like a dark yet focused guitar tone and that clip was tracked with the gain on 10o'clock on the Triple. I used an Ibanez TS9 as a boost.(level at 12o'clock, tone at 10o'clock and drive at 9o'clock) It doesen't really add any gain, just makes the tone a lot more focused.

Oh, and the amp has stock Mesa tubes, no EQ, loop off and there is no EQ'ing done to the guitar tracks after I recorded them. Raw tracks wit only a low pass filter to remove frequencies from 10khz up.

 

[Slanderous666]

Alright, I tried switching the preamp tubes ... no change

I find this video to be similar to the tone I'm seeking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKM6h8iuBJg

I replaced the tubes with El34 like 5 months ago as well

I've tried finding the sweet spot with the master volume but when it gets to 11ish it just gets flabby.

The only way I can get it to sound distorted is with the gain and treble at like 3 o'clock but it just sounds fake, like from a cheap pedal

I'm not sure how to go about resolving this issue

With all respect, shouldnt you be getting something much more organic and toneful from a triple or single rec than the dude in the vid? This really sounds very sterile and screechy compared to other vids of Rec amps you see. Maybe its just me.

 

[Botch]

Nah I agree man, that's not a very nice tone. I suppose everyone's tastes are different...

 

[MJ Slaughter]

Alright, I tried switching the preamp tubes ... no change

I find this video to be similar to the tone I'm seeking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKM6h8iuBJg

I replaced the tubes with El34 like 5 months ago as well

I've tried finding the sweet spot with the master volume but when it gets to 11ish it just gets flabby.

The only way I can get it to sound distorted is with the gain and treble at like 3 o'clock but it just sounds fake, like from a cheap pedal

I'm not sure how to go about resolving this issue

With all respect, shouldnt you be getting something much more organic and toneful from a triple or single rec than the dude in the vid? This really sounds very sterile and screechy compared to other vids of Rec amps you see. Maybe its just me.

I agree Slanderous666. Not a very desirable tone, even for a Recto. Doubt if that would come through the mix in a live application very well.

 

[Adamant]

I guess I should of elaborated more but I don't really want THAT tone, hehe, it is rather iffy ... but I was referring more to the level of distortion

 

[kmanick]

You know I kind of went thru the same thing when I got my Rectoverb. Rectos don't have a compressed singing fluid type of gain to them unless they are wide open.
At first I thought, 'where's all the gain in this thing", but now I run mine with a modded SD-1 in front of it with the level dimed and the gain basically on 1 and the gain on my amp at around 1:00 and it kills.
I can keep my volume levels at around 10:00 on the output and 11:00 on the Master and it sounds the way I imagined it would.
I switch back and forth between my Rectoverb and my JSX and the gain types and structures on these two amps are completely different.
the JSX will sing with the gain at 3 on the ultra channel, while my Rectoverb will sound dead with the gain at 3 unless I have the channel master up past 12:00 noon.
the Channel volume will add quite a bit of sustain to the gain so play with that.
I run the effects loop on mine so I have to keep it under 11:00 so I don't overload the signal going into my EQ and my delay.
you need to have it checked to make sure all is in working order and then you need to "learn the amp'. It took me awhile but know "I get it".
My buddy just recently bought an old black face 2 channel dual recto and it literally took me 2 minutes to dial it in.
Try working with vintage mode first as that mode seems to have a little bit more of a fluidy sound to it than Modern does (I rarely even use modern on mine anymore)

 

[vitor gracie]

Ok, I want to chime in here... The first time I ever played through a Dual Rec I hated it. It was the muddiest sounding, darkest, most flubby thing I ever heard. This was when Mesa first introduced them in the 90s.

However....

I was using a really BAD $200 Jackson with invaders, and a solid state 100watt Bass amp with a Jackson 4X12 cabinet. (yes they once made cabinets) I was looking for the most highs and lows stacked with the most gain and the LEAST amount of mids ever. I ran a metal zone pedal with no less then 2 EQs to double scoop the mids out.... no lie! My previous amps where also solid state and anything tube sounded just silly to me.

I honestly think you are not going to be happy with your amp at all. I would suggest selling it and buying a 5150 (6505) or any number of other amps that does the scooped thing well. It took years for me to appreciate my guitar's normal frequency ...the midrange. And it also took years to learn how to play with less gain. I could never turn the gain down until I literally started learning Jazz. Then when I played metal it really opened my eyes to why so many guys said "Less gain more mids" You just have to play better.

Seriously, sell it and get a 5150. You will be in high gain heaven. As for us bafoons that say your amp is fine, change your cab, get a better guitar, tubes swap, pedal in front, etc... don't listen. You will be happier when you get the 5150. I think the Mesa is just a bad choice for you right now.

No disrespect intended man.

 

[jdurso]

to vitors point you may want to hit up your local music store or guitar center and try anything and everything. a tube amp may not even be the answer for you but you'll never know until you try.

persoanlly i would exhaust a couple of different solutions mentioned here but at the end of the day it may just be that amp is not for you

 

[ama_kid]

I know I'm a little late to the game, but here goes...

In reference to you AILD level gain, it really depends which record you want to model your base tone on, but +1 on a Maxon OD808 in front of the amp. AILD uses the EMG 81/85 combos in their guitars. Don't rule out the use of a 10-band EQ in the loop as well as it can take out some of that scooped mid tone Mesa Rectifiers are famous for, smooth out the top mids which causes a little bit of the grit in the tone and tighten up the bass for some nice tight chugs. For the lead tone, you might want to put a delay pedal in the loop along with the EQ. MXR makes a great 10-band EQ and I currently use a Boss DD-20 and a Line 6 DL-4 in the loop with my current setup. Those 2 delays might be a little much, but for what I am playing now, they work great!

When I was with AILD (Frail Words Collapse record), we used a combo of Marshall JPM-1 Preamps and Dual Rectifier Recording Preamps with a 2:90 Power amp as well as a Marshall JCM900 and JCM800. For Shadows are Security they used Krank Amplification and played around with Framus Cobras and Dragons (like Killswitch Engage), but found them somewhat unreliable on the road. They initially tried the Cobra out at the recommendation of Adam from Killswitch. The latest record they used Randall Amplification (I believe the MTS Series), but can bet there is still a little Framus Cobra in there somewhere as a result of Adam producing their last record. We put a Tubescreamer (TS9) in front of all the amps for a little bit more bite on Frail Words Collapse and I would imagine they are still doing that.

Further proof...when I was asked to come in and do some leads for the new Sworn Enemy record (Tim Lambesis produced it and recorded the guitar tracks in his home studio), I was playing out of a Framus Cobra with a Maxon OD808 in front of the amp, along with a noise suppressor. Additional EQ, compression, a slight delay was done in ProTools after laying down the raw tracks.

Additionally, just buying a Mesa because another band uses them doesn't necessarily guarantee you getting their tone. Hours are spent in the studio tweaking amps just right and combining other amps. Live tone is a completely difference animal as studio tone. I know Nick has both a Randall and JCM800 live and his tone is a combo of both, Randall for rhythm tone and JCM800 cranked with delays and EQ in the loop for his lead tone (I haven't talked with him in a few months, so it may be different now). Mainly, I would really recommend sitting down and spending the time to experiment. I have found so many sweet tones with all the Mesa's I have owned that I never would have if I just plugged and played.

Hope that helps a bit!

jasun krebs[/quote]

 

[ama_kid]

+1 on the FWC tone not being the greatest. We were all pretty young, self producing the record and had a certain sound in our heads for the guitars (At The Gates). A Les Paul Studio with an EMG 81 and a ESP H-1000 was used with the amp setup I mentioned above to provide the main gain tones. Lead tone I used was the ESP and the JCM900+TS9.

If I would have done it over again (and more time because the drums editing took forever) the JCM800 with the TS-9 in front and the early 90s SG I had would have been the more prevalent tone, plus we didn't change the tone at all between the left and right tracks...just a wave of sound coming at you. We didn't use the SG tones at all.

Jasun