Want more liquidy-ness. Should I mod my red stripe III DRG or get a studio preamp?

[erickompositör72]

I love the tones I get out of my red stripe, but it seems temperamental- without the right pickups, guitar, etc, can sound harsh (edit: sometimes not even harsh, but the mids can get a little nasal). And my presence is perpetually at "1."

Although when I listen to recordings of myself, I do think, "wow, that is smooth and liquidy," I then listen to recordings of IIC+'s, and it seems like you can't get a bad sound out of that amp. I've seen pretty scooped EQ's on IIC+'s that still produce incredible liquidy lead tones (I feel, if I scoop my III, it loses a lot of liquidy-ness.

So, while I find there to be incredible, wonderful tones in my III, it seems like there is another level that is just oozing with sweet luscious viscosity to spare, as I hear in these IIC+'s. I know a III+ is not a IIC+, but will that mod get me closer to what I want?

I'm terrified I will get my III+ back and wish I had never mod'd it.

The other option is getting a studio preamp. I love Petrucci's Images & Words tone, and I wouldn't risk losing my precious red stripe. I also hear there is a "IIC+" mod for the studio preamp, and it would be fun to run it through the DRG's power amp...

Please advise!

 

[Thaymz]

I recently picked up a studio with c++ mod and its the closest any of my amps have come to sounding like my DRG c+. That list includes Mark V, JP2C, Quad Pre, Mark IV in no particular order. They all get 'close' but have their own inherent thing. The Studio with this mod has that same raw vintage-esque nature to the breakup. The Studio, being a c++, has more gain but the c+ sounds bigger and a little bit nicer. The bigger part of the tone comes from the c+ pull deep which seems to have more effect than on the other Mesa amps I've tried. Note: I run the studio through the JP power amp...haven't tried it yet through the DRG.

I would keep a lookout for a cheap studio and do the mod. Hope that helps

 

[erickompositör72]

I recently picked up a studio with c++ mod and its the closest any of my amps have come to sounding like my DRG c+. That list includes Mark V, JP2C, Quad Pre, Mark IV in no particular order. They all get 'close' but have their own inherent thing. The Studio with this mod has that same raw vintage-esque nature to the breakup. The Studio, being a c++, has more gain but the c+ sounds bigger and a little bit nicer. The bigger part of the tone comes from the c+ pull deep which seems to have more effect than on the other Mesa amps I've tried. Note: I run the studio through the JP power amp...haven't tried it yet through the DRG.

I would keep a lookout for a cheap studio and do the mod. Hope that helps

This is great info. Regarding the C+ mod, is that something that I could have someone here in NYC do, if I give them a schematic? Or is it a Mike B. specialty? Not having to ship it to Cali would be a "+" (pun intended, wink wink)

 

[GJgo]

The III+ mod is awesome, and cleans up the tone on the III a lot, but it's still not a IIC+ in terms of liquidity. The closest I've come to a IIC+ is a loop modded late IIB. The rhythm is real close, but the lead still isn't quite as liquid. Look, if you want to experience C+ tone, you just have to get a C+. If you're short on cash get one without the GEQ since they are sweeter anyway & put an EQ in the loop for br00tz. Best lead tone I ever had on any amp was a C+ SR.

 

[jrb32]

This is great info. Regarding the C+ mod, is that something that I could have someone here in NYC do, if I give them a schematic? Or is it a Mike B. specialty? Not having to ship it to Cali would be a "+" (pun intended, wink wink)

The III+ mod is a Mike B specialty really. You can ship just the chassis to save weight/shipping costs and let Mike B do his magic.

One simple thing you could do is check C516 - it's an orange drop that connects to a resistor (R238) that then goes to the presence pot. Start at the presence pot and then work backwards until you find it. If it's 0.01uF (pretty sure they are on a Red Stripe) and the resistor is 3.3K, then change these to a 0.0047uF and 1.5K. This is the main reason you can't crank the presence up before it sounds harsh on the IIIs made before the blue stripes. You can change that (5 minute job for someone who can use a soldering iron) and sacrifice nothing else with regard to any of the amp's character.

 

[Thaymz]

This one was modded by someone who had another Studio modded to c++ by Mike B so I believe he used that as the basis for his mods. I'm not sure if there are ++ schematics floating around but I think there are c+ schematics.

 

[erickompositör72]

The Studio, being a c++, has more gain but the c+ sounds bigger and a little bit nicer. The bigger part of the tone comes from the c+ pull deep which seems to have more effect than on the other Mesa amps I've tried.

I just caught this part- so you don't have the push/pull pots installed in your studio?

 

[Thaymz]

It does have the push pull added for bass shift and pull deep as part of the mod. The Treble pull shift and pull brights we’re already included as switches in the stock studio.

When engaging pull deep on the c+ it just seems to have more impact. This isn’t isolated to the studio. It also applies to lead 1 and lead 2 on the quad where engaging pull deep is only a more subtle change in tone. Same goes for the V where Mark iv mode is really more of a iic+ circuit with bigger cap and pull deep engaged. Changing to mark iv mode on a V doesn’t have as much impact to the tone as engaging pull deep on a c+. Based on what I hear many of the push pull functions have watered down over the years. Note that does not come from any technical knowledge of the circuits or components, just what I hear. I can’t speak to the mark iii as I’ve not played one.

 

[GJgo]

The Mark III has the big pull deep effect like the Mark II does. The controls are really almost identical, just the voicing & feel are different.

 

[erickompositör72]

So, I'm going to try running a Studio Preamp I just bought through the power section of my DRG red stripe.

If I like it, I guess I could put each preamp (Mark III/Studio) in a loop selector, and switch between the two? That could be pretty cool- like having a Quad preamp (with the "Mark III" channel an actual Mark III), and a 75w simul-class power amp. And two separate EQ's!

Will report back when it arrives!

 

[erickompositör72]

Studio preamp has arrived. Running it through the power section of my DRG Red Stripe.

The most awesome thing is that "Pull deep" on the Mark II's & III's is after the fx loop (as well as presence), so I have a Studio Preamp with a "Pull deep"!

Did I mention this is awesome? More soon.

 

[Eevil]

8)

I acquired studio preamp also - deciding factor being “cheaper Mark V”. In my rig the cleans are handled by D-moll and ED and both amps handle crunch phenomenally. Only thing I needed then was “the Mark lead” -channel - and the pre delivers that in spades It’s awesome

 

[JD]

Studio preamp has arrived. Running it through the power section of my DRG Red Stripe.

The most awesome thing is that "Pull deep" on the Mark II's & III's is after the fx loop (as well as presence), so I have a Studio Preamp with a "Pull deep"!

Did I mention this is awesome? More soon.

Pull deep is Hardwired on in the studio so you will be getting double Deep going through Mark Series Amp
The Bass Shift is also Hardwired on also

 

[erickompositör72]

Studio preamp has arrived. Running it through the power section of my DRG Red Stripe.

The most awesome thing is that "Pull deep" on the Mark II's & III's is after the fx loop (as well as presence), so I have a Studio Preamp with a "Pull deep"!

Did I mention this is awesome? More soon.

Pull deep is Hardwired on in the studio so you will be getting double Deep going through Mark Series Amp
The Bass Shift is also Hardwired on also

I've confirmed that the "Pull Deep" is actually just letting the entire signal through. When it's pushed, it's not letting some frequencies through. So when I'm pulling the "Pull Deep," I'm really just hearing the StudPre as it was intended, not actually "double" anything

Same goes with "Gain Boost" on later Mark IIb's. The earlier Mark IIb's "Gain Boost" actually boosted everything. You can tell which one it is by setting all tone controls to "0" and pulling the "Gain Boost." If there's a big boost with everything on "0," it's an early one with an actual boost. If nothing happens, it's a later one that functions like the IIC's and III's.

 

[erickompositör72]

I recently picked up a studio with c++ mod and its the closest any of my amps have come to sounding like my DRG c+. That list includes Mark V, JP2C, Quad Pre, Mark IV in no particular order. They all get 'close' but have their own inherent thing. The Studio with this mod has that same raw vintage-esque nature to the breakup. The Studio, being a c++, has more gain but the c+ sounds bigger and a little bit nicer.

The closest I've come to a IIC+ is a loop modded late IIB. The rhythm is real close, but the lead still isn't quite as liquid. Look, if you want to experience C+ tone, you just have to get a C+.

So, I've been loving my StudPre tone, but realized (as @Thaymz said) that both my III red stripe AND my IIb have a "bigger" sound than the Studio, even though the StudPre is the most liquid. Both the IIb and the III just sound like there is a "wider" sound coming out of the speaker.

@GJgo- as you've suggested, rather than mod'ing my IIb, or modding my StudPre, I think I'll just sell everything and get a C+. I see now what the potential is (StudPre liquidness with the IIb or III "big"-ness), and it's not worth trying to replicate it with mod's. As all have predicted, all roads lead to IIC+. I'm not going to be performing anytime soon, so I can do without all the excess gear at the moment.

Hopefully I can sell my stuff locally at minimal loss, so I don't have to bother with shipping/online marketplace fees!

 

[GJgo]

The IIB+ and the IIC+ are very close in dynamics & tone. The C is better & I agree you should experience it, but if at all possible I recommend you have them all on hand first and then only keep your favorite.

https://youtu.be/cQjjAtewUzQ

https://youtu.be/sMgacLAvm_o

 

[Thaymz]

Have you tried or considered a JP2C? It has the big sound and liquidness when you crank the gain. It’s just a little bit saturated compared to the vintage amps but still likely to be everything you’re looking for.

 

[erickompositör72]

I'm sure I'll eventually try a "IIb+," but at this point, it just seems like so much effort to send it in for the mod, when at that point (now owning a Mark III, StudPre, IIb) I'll have almost spent the $ for a IIc+ itself, and that's been the tone I'm chasing all along. Comforting to know if I do get a IIc+, it won't lose value if I do decide that I just want something like a IIb+ or III+ in the end...

I have looked into the JP2C. If I was gigging with a band, I think I'd go for that in a heartbeat. However, my current projects don't actually require that kind of flexibility, and a combo is just very practical for my "music studio" in my apartment. Also, the JP2C seems to be on the more compressed side, from what I could tell from the recordings with lead tones. I'm definitely looking for the other end of the spectrum.

 

[Thaymz]

I'm sure I'll eventually try a "IIb+," but at this point, it just seems like so much effort to send it in for the mod, when at that point (now owning a Mark III, StudPre, IIb) I'll have almost spent the $ for a IIc+ itself, and that's been the tone I'm chasing all along. Comforting to know if I do get a IIc+, it won't lose value if I do decide that I just want something like a IIb+ or III+ in the end...

I have looked into the JP2C. If I was gigging with a band, I think I'd go for that in a heartbeat. However, my current projects don't actually require that kind of flexibility, and a combo is just very practical for my "music studio" in my apartment. Also, the JP2C seems to be on the more compressed side, from what I could tell from the recordings with lead tones. I'm definitely looking for the other end of the spectrum.

All very valid points. Best of luck with the search for one. Can't say I've had a single day that I regret dropping the money I spent on mine.

 

[alanlcohen]

I had Mike B. mod my Mark III Red stripe and mentioned I love the tone on my Studio Preamp's Lead channel. His mod made the Mark's Lead darker leaving me to use the pull bright to bring back some highs. Be careful what you wish for, you can spend a lot of money for shipping and bench time to change out two dollar component. Regardless, I've never been able to get the liquid, complex upper content of the Studio Preamp out of the Red stripe. I get close, but never 'it'.