Volume, volume - Turn up the volume?

[Chrissmoth]

Hi Guys

What kind of level do you play your amps at?

I understand the logarithmic nature of hearing – ie a 5 watt amplifier is half the volume of a 50 watt amp – ie there isn’t a massive difference between a 20 & 50 watt amp – good article here BTW: http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~gmarts/amppower.htm

I’ve got a 20Watt Subway Blues (with the original fat / bright inputs & the hum issue fixed). This is a great amp IMO and REALLY loud.

I’ve used this for quite a few gigs here in the UK - & all but once it’s been miced thro the PA.

The one time I played without being miced due to there being a “vocal only” PA was in quite a large room & I was concerned that 20 watts simply wouldn’t be loud enough.

No Problemo! - the little Boogie filled the room & sounded great. It was matched up against a 50 watt Peavey (other guitarist) & a 200 watt Trace Elliot bass amp. My Subway was still only set between 9 & 10 O’clock– the other guy’s amps were really struggling to keep up..

I’ve played with several drummers & the Boogie has never lacked for volume at all and has NEVER been beyond the 10 o’clock position

I previously owned a F-50 combo (50 watts) - & that never got above 9 O’clock (amazing clean channel – rubbish overdrive channel BTW).

I think it was The Who that asked Jim Marshall to build the first 100 watt amp – but they were dealing with 1960s (probably vocal only) PA systems & Keith Moon!!!


Anyway, here’s where the questions begin...

If I can do all this with 20 watts, what’s the point of power levels beyond this? Given today’s standard of PA systems.

Do gig venues outside the UK not usually mic up all the band?

Are venues bigger outside the UK?

Are all you guys with ‘cranked’ Triple Rectifiers stone deaf?

Is it just a Spinal Tap thing to have 100 watt amps? :roll:

Have I just got an unfeasibly loud Subway Blues? :shock:

Am I a wuss for not turning up any higher?

Answers on a postcard please...

 

[coppa]

20 watts is enought.
Im my city every club is way too f**ing loud. everyone brings in their 100watt stacks and runs the volume around 0.01 and only one speaker gets miced off the 4x12. fully miced drumkit in a room that doesnt need it etc.

the key thing must be does the audience shut the hell up to listen to a band when they start playing

when I was in high school we played to a huge gymnasium without micing anything but vocals on some peavey bandits and that filled the room just great

some 20 watt amps are just nuts for volume. the less bells and wistles in the circuit the louder it typically sounds

 

[trem]

Not just volume. Headroom, tighter bottom; very important qualities in tight rhythming.

 

[Chrissmoth]

Hmm... There's no break-up @ my 10 O'clock setting - so head-room isn't really an issue.

 

[JW123]

Funny you should ask.

I own a Rocket, Triple, and Roadster.

When I use the Subway I set everything on 5 on the controls, rev 1.5. For cranking stuff I kick in the contour switch. I use the volume on my guitar to get the sound level I want. I play a Les Paul Classic 1960 with the stock hot pickups, for rythym I roll the volume on the guitar to 2-3 and I will dial in more gain with the guitar for solos or loud passages in songs.

When I use the Triple I have a Weber attenuator. My Triple is set somewhere in the same range as the Rocket on the controls. We do at times get too loud, but its a clean loud with way more headroom than I can get out of the Rocket. Does clean loud make sense.

I recently acquired a Roadster Combo 2x12 which I will use for in between gigs.

So I have a Rocket for practice and really small gigs even church gigs. The Roadster is kind of a step up for say a 150-200 seat rock club. And then the Triple half stack for another step up to a larger room. And if we get out doors I pull out a second half stack and run 2 half stacks for out doors.

The reality is that I could use the Rocket for everything, to answer your question these big amps are complete overkill and totally unnecesary except for my ego and the image of having a larger amp. You know AMP ENVY. However the flexibility of different channels and different sounds in distortion is cool to have at your feet. I find playing a gig on the Rocket gets old to me as a player and also to my ears. The cool thing about a Rocket is that you can sling a guitar in a gig bag over your shoulder, have the Rocket in one hand and a small accesory bag in the other and you are good to go. The smaller amps sound better in the crowd cause if they dont have enough umph you just mic them and it smoothes the overall mix out a lot. But I still like having a big ole amp back there just in case someone yells Turn It Up.

 

[JW123]

Funny you should ask.

I own a Rocket, Triple, and Roadster.

When I use the Subway I set everything on 5 on the controls, rev 1.5. For cranking stuff I kick in the contour switch. I use the volume on my guitar to get the sound level I want. I play a Les Paul Classic 1960 with the stock hot pickups, for rythym I roll the volume on the guitar to 2-3 and I will dial in more gain with the guitar for solos or loud passages in songs.

When I use the Triple I have a Weber attenuator. My Triple is set somewhere in the same range as the Rocket on the controls. We do at times get too loud, but its a clean loud with way more headroom than I can get out of the Rocket. Does clean loud make sense.

I recently acquired a Roadster Combo 2x12 which I will use for in between gigs.

So I have a Rocket for practice and really small gigs even church gigs. The Roadster is kind of a step up for say a 150-200 seat rock club. And then the Triple half stack for another step up to a larger room. And if we get out doors I pull out a second half stack and run 2 half stacks for out doors.

The reality is that I could use the Rocket for everything, to answer your question these big amps are complete overkill and totally unnecesary except for my ego and the image of having a larger amp. You know AMP ENVY. However the flexibility of different channels and different sounds in distortion is cool to have at your feet. I find playing a gig on the Rocket gets old to me as a player and also to my ears. The cool thing about a Rocket is that you can sling a guitar in a gig bag over your shoulder, have the Rocket in one hand and a small accesory bag in the other and you are good to go. The smaller amps sound better in the crowd cause if they dont have enough umph you just mic them and it smoothes the overall mix out a lot. But I still like having a big ole amp back there just in case someone yells Turn It Up.

 

[trem]

Hmm... There's no break-up @ my 10 O'clock setting - so head-room isn't really an issue.

No "audible" breakup doesn't mean it's not clipping already. Anyway, what kind of music do you play with the subway?

My suggestion is just to try whatever amps that share the same pre-amp design but different power amp, like the dual and triple recto, or Marshall 2203 and 2204. Those two amps have identical pre-amp, but yet sound different, all due to the power amp. At certain level, the smaller wattage ones maybe can get just as loud, but the sound and feeling is definitely different. As I said, the higher wattage has clearer and tighter bottom.

Volume wise only, I agree 150 watts is an overkill. But some love the feeling and sound of it. JMHO.

 

[kb7010]

Years ago.. yeah a old guy hear of 45 years old.. lol .. I had to have a Marshall stack in my younger days.. well to make a long story short.. I first got the half stack.. them the straight 1960b bottom cabinet.. that bottom cabinet got used one time and that was it..!!!! as my stage volume was WAY too loud.. so after that one night.. it was nothing but show.. I do like the sound of 12"..so that I can't give up.. but as far as a speaker now.. I run a Boogie or the same Marshall head.. and a 2 X 12 Boogie cabinet.. all I need.. as stated before.. just about everything gets a mic anyway..so why haul all that stuff..???? OK it does look good.. but sound wise.. my 2 X 12 sounds just fine with a mic on it to me..

my volume setting..?? around 2 or 3 on both..!!!! just so I can hear myself is all I need.. let that PA make me shine..!!!!! which it does everytime..!!!! :!: :!: :!:

JMO on the subject..!!!


Rex

 

[coppa]

my best live sound ive ever had was a cranked up 18watt combo but not the marshall kind this thing was thrown together from scraps by a tech in my town. the cab was very deep and very heavy and thats what it sounded like too :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

it got miced up to get it too loud as per the trend where i live.

its true about the more clean headroom from higher wattage amps ,BUT I think if a 50 watt amp had the same size and rating of transformers in it as a 150watt it may come closer to that clear and defined sound at a slightly lower volume.