Vintage PRS guitar, any good?

[Fred]

I found a guy that is selling his '87 PRS standard. I never played a PRS but I'm in the lookout for a new guitar so I figured they should sound pretty neat (In my quest for the holy tone of course ).

Anyone know anything about the 1987 models? Also considering its almost 20 years old what to look for if I consider buying it? can the neck twist/break loose?

It's a one piece mahogany body, Brazilian rosewood fretboard and moon inlays. Not superb but in decent condition (a few dents and small scratches here and there but otherwise ok shape). He wants about $3000 for it.

 

[RR]

I'm not a PRS fan so take this as grain of salt.

Seems like $3000 is alot but many collectors prefer PRSs made before '94 before machine were doing some or most of the work now for these newer model PRS.

Your friend's PRS has Brazilian rosewood (which you mentioned) and before the neck "heel from hell" design. Today's PRS Standard are using Indian rosewood which if fine but there's a preference for the more expensive and becoming scarce Brazilain Rosewood.

Yeah, I really think it may be worth it.


Side Note:
First let me explain why I am not a PRS fan => would it bother anyone if Randall Smith decided to tell everyone he's going to have an import line of amps "license MESA Boogie" made in the Far East?

Would it bother you if a boutique guitar company that used to be hand built by luthiers decided to do bulk of the work with CNC machines which now its pennies to the dollar yet they keep their price still high?

I have no problem with machine built guitars, its that why would I want to pay the labor of machine when I should be paying a luthiers' REAL labor's fee. In other words, what was dollars of labor from a luthier is actually pennies with a machine yet the customers DO NOT GET THESE SAVINGS!
:? :evil: End of Rant.

 

[Fred]

Good points, and thats kind of why I kind of shied away from PRS myself. I don't really like that they're even advertising that they keep all the good wood pieces aside for the prive stock guitars, kind of wierd since they are still quite expensive for "leftovers". I do know that they are good quality guitars though and vintage models should be even better.

Have had a couple of Gibson Les Pauls already but they are starting to get a bit boring. Still looking for something largely in that price range (I prefer tone before buck though). PRS seems like the natural choice since I don't want a real superstrat.

Thanks!

 

[Elpelotero]

an 87 standard is like finding a 1959 Les Paul, as far as PRS is concerned. Head over to birdandmoons.com. That's the PRS forum. They cream over 87 standards, so be sure you don't tell 'em where you found it!

EDIT: On ebay, an 87 standard sells for at least double what you will pay!

 

[Rocky]

buy it. Even if you dont like it much.

 

[24loar]

OK...first, PRS guitars are definately using CNC machines but they have been for many years....this is at the earliest stage of construction...much of the work is still done by hand ( tour the factory and you'll see ) the guitars to my hands and ears play better than most major brands and have as Dan Erlwine put it in his book " the best set-up of any factory made guitars..."

PRS standard woods are quite nice and the guitars sound like...well PRS guitars...not as chunky as a Les Paul and not as thin as a fender..and NOT a combination of the two....

The Korean SE line is meant for "students" but WAY underpriced for their quality...

The private stock stuff is the curliest maple ( although PRS current production "10" tops are quite curly....overall the construction, feel, and finish of a brand new PRS are extremly good...it is a matter of taste...

I do not work for PRS and I own among other guitars '86 PRS, '96 PRS Santana 1, '06 PRS McCarty, 1959 LP sunburst, 1953 Esquire, and Mark llA

I can A/B PRS against original vintage LPs in my basement....and have many times...PRS is good stuff!

Hope this helps...

 

[flieger67]

Side Note:
First let me explain why I am not a PRS fan => would it bother anyone if Randall Smith decided to tell everyone he's going to have an import line of amps "license MESA Boogie" made in the Far East?

Why should that be a reason to be mad (or "bothered") at either Randall Smith or Paul Reed Smith? All Paul has done is bring a very good guitar to the market at a price point more affordable to many people. Isn't it a good thing to get good guitars into the hands of more people? If you knew how much effort Paul and his top builders have put into the project and how much thought has gone along with that, you might have a different opinion of the SE line.

 

[RR]

Side Note:
First let me explain why I am not a PRS fan => would it bother anyone if Randall Smith decided to tell everyone he's going to have an import line of amps "license MESA Boogie" made in the Far East?

Why should that be a reason to be mad (or "bothered") at either Randall Smith or Paul Reed Smith? All Paul has done is bring a very good guitar to the market at a price point more affordable to many people. Isn't it a good thing to get good guitars into the hands of more people? If you knew how much effort Paul and his top builders have put into the project and how much thought has gone along with that, you might have a different opinion of the SE line.

I'm not bothered a Randall Smith. I admire the person because in late 70's - early 80's, the waiting list for a MESA Boogie was like 18 month. Because of the heavy demand he had to figure out a way to assemble them faster. So he invested in a solder wave machine. This made the process faster and he still had a rigorous inspection of the pc board to assure the quality was kept up.

=> faster process, less time to assemble a Boogie amp, and PRICE DROPPED, he gave this savings to the consumer!

=> Paul Reed Smith, he went to CNC machine to carved out the top which he had luthiers do. Its expensive this way to have luthiers' carve out the top, CNC is pennies to the dollars compared to a luthiers' wages.

Still remain the same! Price is high!

Tom Anderson refused to take have a production overseas to make an affordable line of guitars. He was offered many times and could have been a wealthy man. Matter of fact there was such demand for his guitars, he actually did not want to handle the business end and expand production so recently he announced he is 'downsizing' and going to made to order and not production basis.

Rant of PRS

PRS establish his name, but would it bother you if Cadillac decided to build an affordable model vehicle assembled in Far East? Some, like me would think Cadillac has cheapen their name.

I do like the feel of PRS, the high figured maple top etc ... I just not going to purchase one because of the reason above. I don't expect everyone to have my opinion.

 

[flieger67]

Tom Anderson refused to take have a production overseas to make an affordable line of guitars. He was offered many times and could have been a wealthy man. Matter of fact there was such demand for his guitars, he actually did not want to handle the business end and expand production so recently he announced he is 'downsizing' and going to made to order and not production basis.

Rant of PRS

Again what's wrong with introducing a lower-priced line? I think PRS is doing it right by creating a separate line with its own logo, unlike Fender, which puts or has put its name on a wide-range of non-US products.

I find it disappointing when a company's name gets sold or otherwise reduced to simply a name, like what has happened with Tobias or perhaps Kramer. But that is not the case with PRS.

As for including Ed Roman's "rant", about all I can say is consider the source. The leprauchan is not well-received in the industry and you can find plenty of rants from customers aimed squarely at ol' Ed and how he conducts business.

...but would it bother you if Cadillac decided to build an affordable model vehicle assembled in Far East? Some, like me would think Cadillac has cheapen their name.

No, it wouldn't bother me because there are other cars I like much more than Cadillacs.

By the way, are you aware that GM offers a lower-cost version of the Cadillac XLR? It's called the Corvette. So while it may not be foreign-made, there is a "Cadillac" offered by GM at a lower price-point without all of those Caddy frills. Does the Corvette cheapen the Cadillac name? I think not.

If you want to say that producing items outside of the US cheapens them, then I'm curious to know what you think about Japanese companies that produce cars in the US or Japanese guitar companies that have had custom shops in the US (Ibanez). How about the fact that Marshall amps are produced in the UK? Though you may not like their current offerings, there's no denying how influential and sought-after their '60's and '70's amps are.

 

[RR]

flieger67:

Me and you, in the UFC Octagon, "Bring it On".

Just kidding ... :wink:

You make some good point. Yes Ed Roman is someone who contradict what he says and is an ...[any profanity of your choice].

Its just I really looked up to PRS because he establish the boutique guitar building thing, highly dye-color figured maple top which now many other boutique guitar builder chiseled the ice Paul Reed Smith broke.

Then I guess I should look at your point of view offering an 'affordable' line of PRS than looking at him he "sold out" want to make himself more richer introducing an import line of guitars.

Not sure your point (or my point) on the Cadillac thing but I sure would like an ZR1 Corvette (they still around?).

If you want to say that producing items outside of the US cheapens them, then I'm curious to know what you think about Japanese companies that produce cars in the US or Japanese guitar companies that have had custom shops in the US (Ibanez).

I was not aware that Ibanez, (Yamaha too?) has custom shops here in the US. Not sure, no wonder what Japanese thinks about their Toyotas be built here in the US. Has it "cheapen" their name?

How about the fact that Marshall amps are produced in the UK? Though you may not like their current offerings, there's no denying how influential and sought-after their '60's and '70's amps are.

Have you been reading my post? Yeah, that's true, I favored only Marshall's JTM45 and SLP.

So we still friends?

 

[flieger67]

flieger67:

So we still friends?

Oh yeah, we're still friends. My posts weren't meant as attacks, I was just interested in some discussion. And trust me, I'm used to people not agreeing with me: I've been married for almost 15 years... :lol:

As for the Vette, I think the mack-daddy Vette these days is the Z06. Funnily enough, PRS made a Z06-themed guitar. Here's a link, if you're interested: http://www.prsguitars.com/corvette/index.html

 

[MesaENGR412]

flieger67:

So we still friends?

Oh yeah, we're still friends. My posts weren't meant as attacks, I was just interested in some discussion. And trust me, I'm used to people not agreeing with me: I've been married for almost 15 years... :lol:

As for the Vette, I think the mack-daddy Vette these days is the Z06. Funnily enough, PRS made a Z06-themed guitar. Here's a link, if you're interested: http://www.prsguitars.com/corvette/index.html

Yeah, the Z06 is IMO one of the greatest ''Modern Muscle'' cars produced. Anyways, it kinda ticks me off that the prs doesn't have a real Vette emblem on it, it just has a sticker!!! As for the ZL-1, I saw one of those parked outside my dorm not too long ago, i believe it was a 94 model. Black with red interior. Beautiful car. I'm just waiting on the supposed Supercharged Z06 and the Z07.......ohhhh my.....

don't mean to highjack the thread, but I'm a car nut as well as a Mesa nut, so any mention of cars sparks my interest. As forthe SLR, it's got some vette in it, like the engine in the base model, but the V series engine is hand built. both are sweet rides. But it's hard to top the late 50's to the early 70's as far as cars go.......


-AJH

 

[Russ]

What do you guys think of the GT500KR?

 

[MesaENGR412]

It's a nice car, gives a good flash back to the '68 "King of the Road" and at around $54000, its not a bad deal compared to the $70000 Z06 vette and the $94000 Viper Coupe (the other 2 500+ horsepower fastbacks). But, the thing that kills me is its weight. It's about 800 ibs heavier than the Vette, and that will cost it on the road in both handling and speed (It did in the tests of the GT500 which have already been done). But, it's still one of the best styled (since the late 60s IMO) and stoutest Pony cars to come out of the stable since they dropped the 5.0s in the mid 90's, but still very shy of the 428 Interceptors, and the 351 Cleveland and Windsors....ohhh my... :twisted: :twisted:

-AJH

 

[waassaabee]

I found a guy that is selling his '87 PRS standard. I never played a PRS but I'm in the lookout for a new guitar so I figured they should sound pretty neat (In my quest for the holy tone of course ).

Anyone know anything about the 1987 models? Also considering its almost 20 years old what to look for if I consider buying it? can the neck twist/break loose?

It's a one piece mahogany body, Brazilian rosewood fretboard and moon inlays. Not superb but in decent condition (a few dents and small scratches here and there but otherwise ok shape). He wants about $3000 for it.

Buy it!! Or give me the guys number :wink:

 

[flieger67]

What do you guys think of the GT500KR?

I really got bitten by the Mustang bug last year and ended up buying a Mustang GT last Sept, so I'm a big Mustang fan and Mustang Club of America member. I think the GT500KR is going to be a great muscle car. In fact, Shelby Autos was seeking input from people at The Mustang Source Forum on color/stripe combos, which I think is neat. Unlike the late '60's Shelbys that became a little more of a dress-up car than an all-out driving machine, I think the new GT500KR will definitely be a pavement pounder.

If I had the cash, I'd love to have one. But I think with its limited production status (I read it may only be 1000 cars), I'm certain dealers will add on all sorts of mark-ups, like they did with Cobras last year.

 

[RR]

Everyone focus! :lol:

After I ranting about PRS, the bottom line, Fred, I approve of that '87 PRS for $3000. Did you buy it? If you haven't one of us will!

 

[Fred]

Nope you won't, it's a private listing in a faraway country (which I will not reveal for the time being ).

He's still in doubt whether he wants to sell it or not. When I showed interest he jacked up the price a bit and wanted to think about it. I've been going to guitar stores and jamming newer PRSs' to get a feel for them (to my surprise some that sounded/felt shitty for a $2.5k guitar. I've found really bad quality ones but also some really great).

The thing is this guitar is only 22 frets and no other bells and whistles. I want a 24 fret version since all my gibsons are 22 frets. I won't cry myself to sleep of course but still...

He doesn't seem to be in a hurry to sell it (which should mean it still plays great) so we'll see what happens.

You sure $3000 isn't a little over the top? (read somewhere that '87 with birds usually go for $2500-2700, but I guess these are getting scarce).

/Fred

 

[sbalderrama]

If you look at the prices of truely hand made guitars they are generally quite a bit more expensive than what PRS and Gibson are charging. Labor in the USA is expensive, and the CNC can do the carving much cheaper and faster. PRS would be even more expensive if they were hand carved, and really, whats the point if you end up with the exact same carve anyway?

Its also a supply and demand issue. PRS has no reason to lower the prices since apparently they are selling just fine. They don't "owe" the general public a lower priced USA built guitar just because their price of production was lowered with CNC's. The capital investment in CNC's is not exactly cheap. And I'm sure the CNC isn't just for cutting costs, its also to produce consistent, precisely built parts that make for a better guitar. One custom builder, Driskill, uses CNC precisely for that reason, even though he builds each guitar completely on his own.

My #1 guitar is a '92 PRS CE-24. I also have a 2005 Std 24. Great guitars.

 

[Russ]

If the vintage PRS wasn't any good don't you think that they would have disappeared?