V30 - C90 confusion

[rickc007]

OK, I've always heard the V30 is mid-range harsh

but I bought one anyway, cuz I like the way they have sounded in some of the cabs that I've tried

compared to my C90, the V30 sounds scouped and warmer

granted it's new, but it's not even close

was actually looking for the ideal speaker for me Lonestar Special

any opinions, recommendations welcome

 

[ylo]

Most of the speakers with British style cones (i.e. Celestion) have a notch in the frequency response around 1.5 kHz.

Whether a speaker sounds harsh or not depends on the speaker cabinet, and in any case is quite subjective, so you will always get a variety of opinions.

I put an Eminence Red White & Blues in my LSS and it sounds great. The Eminence has a slightly brighter sound than the C90, but it isn't harsh or buzzy, in my opinion. I'm using the stock tubes. The amp is almost new.

Chris, Boston MA

 

[rickc007]

Thanks Chris, I am real tempted to put a Celestion Blue in it, just to check it out

but gonna wait for reveiws on the Gold, don't want to blow up the blue

 

[ylo]

Rickc007

The Celestion Blue gets rave reviews, so I have high hopes for the Gold. These two speakers are big bucks though. Have you considered a Weber Blue Dog for much less money? In any case, post your results once you try something other than the C90.

 

[vatoben]

the weber blue dog is really cool, but to my ears it's darker than a V30. and if it's as good a take on the celestion blue as i've read, then the celestion might not have the top end you want. i've had good experiences with a greenback. it might be cool in the lonestar box. and the 5 watt discrepancy hasn't been a problem yet.

 

[rickc007]

the weber blue dog is really cool, but to my ears it's darker than a V30. and if it's as good a take on the celestion blue as i've read, then the celestion might not have the top end you want. i've had good experiences with a greenback. it might be cool in the lonestar box. and the 5 watt discrepancy hasn't been a problem yet.

now I'm really confused (this is nothing new)

thought the blue dog/celestion blue were top end chimey

darker than a V30?

experimenting could get real pricey, really quick

 

[RR]

the weber blue dog is really cool, but to my ears it's darker than a V30. and if it's as good a take on the celestion blue as i've read, then the celestion might not have the top end you want. i've had good experiences with a greenback. it might be cool in the lonestar box. and the 5 watt discrepancy hasn't been a problem yet.

now I'm really confused (this is nothing new)

thought the blue dog/celestion blue were top end chimey

darker than a V30?

experimenting could get real pricey, really quick

The Weber's Blue Dog as well as the Celestion Blues (also depending which magnet Weber) especially with the alnico will sound darker if you put it that way compare to Vintage30. But I rather call it smoother top end especially at high volume, it will compress more. It will still have chimey but not the aggressivenes top end (I don't want to say harshness because some guitarist like that harshness, matter of preference).

Can you describe what are you looking for out of your LoneStar Special (EL84s)? Is it a 1-12" combo? => Classic Rock? Metal? Blues? etc ...

(I think) Ted Weber and I know Scott (South Valley Vintage Guitar) ideal combo is a f Blue Dog and Silver Dog both alnicos. The Silver Dog is like a Blue Dog but with more extended range highs and lows while the Blue Dog is pretty much a replicate of a Celestion Blue.

 

[Dennis Shaw]

To my ears the C90 is still a great speak. However, as far as the V30 goes, Celestion lost their paper cone supplier, so I 've been informed, about 2 years ago. The new paper cones are thicker and stiffer, thus resulting in harsher mids and highs. This affects the V30's everywhere to my knowledge, except Boogie. Some companies have actually ceased selling/installing them in their cabinets. Also noteworthy, a few amp mfg's have actually replaced them with Eminence Legends in their cabinets and are refusing to support the 'newer' V30's.
The feedback is that once the speaks (V30's) have about 30 hours playing time in on them, they soften up/loosen up slightly. I'd have to say let your ears be the judge.
As in Boogies case, their V30's are not supposed to be the norm as their V30's are custom made to their specs by Celestion thus resulting in a better speak. Boogie goes to great pains and lenghts to ensure this is the case.

 

[RR]

However, as far as the V30 goes, Celestion lost their paper cone supplier, so I 've been informed, about 2 years ago. The new paper cones are thicker and stiffer, thus resulting in harsher mids and highs. This affects the V30's everywhere to my knowledge, except Boogie.

Interesting ...

Does this include the Celestion Blues? and some of the other Celestion made in England?

I know that most of Celestion models are made in China. But just wondering if the England Celestion plant are getting their paper cone supplier from the same supplier.

 

[Dennis Shaw]

I honestly can't say because I don't know. To me, if they have lost the old paper supplier, it should affect the entire line, but that's just a personal opinion, NOT fact. I'd trust what the great folks at Boogie says.
I have heard some other brands of cabinets with V30's in them (newer ones made within the last 2 years) and to my ears, they would slice ice wide open.
This topic would take a considerable amount of research, phone calls, and e-mails to various suppliers to uncover the whole truth. There are a few 'boutique' amp companies out there, so I have been told, hooks up each and every V30 that comes in to a variac set to a very low voltage (probably somewhere between 5 & 15 volts), for 24 x 7 ( that's 24 hours per day for seven days ) to 'loosen them up' prior to actual installation in an amp. I would never recommend this unless approved by Celestion beforehand.
Once again, the Boog V30's and C90's are custom made for them by Celestion and the process is STRICTLY controlled and each shipment is inspected upon arrival.
However, since I became aware of this information, I myself have refrained from the purchase of any Celestion product and am on the search for a replacement. I'll chime in once I find it. It will take me some time to find and test because I have to pay street price on speaks.

 

[user 1198]

I compared my LSC C90 speakers with the V30's and I was surprised to find that overall I prefered the tone of the C90's. The C90's sounded a lot smoother and sparkly to my ears.

The C90's on the clean channel definately sounded better than the V30's, but I did like the extra bit of graininess that the V30's added on the distortion channel.

I think maybe having one C90 and one V30 in my 2x12 combo would sound great and give me the best of both worlds. I'm going to try this combination next weekend and see how it goes.

 

[RR]

Thanks, Dennis:

This is interesting because I have a 4x12" of Vintage 30s. I bought all these Vintage 30s at various times, like late 90s until 2001(?) at used music shop, amp repair shops.

Then this year, my friend bought quad of Vintage 30s. He borrowed my 4x12" enclosure and I remove mine and place his in the 4x12".

Gosh, his V30s sounded harsh and not smooth compare to my V30s. I always thought it was attribute to "not broken" like mine.

Now it (his V30s sounding harsh) could also be from "Made in China" w/ a different cone supplier[?].

 

[ylo]

experimenting could get real pricey, really quick

You can find many of these speakers on eBay, which seems to be a good way to get rid of the ones you don't like, especially if they have low mileage.

Concerning possible replacements for C90 and V30, check out the Eminence Redcoat line -- lots of choices if you want to tweak your sound but stay in Celestion realm of things -- or the Patriot line for a more American (Oxford, CTS, Jensen) type sound.

 

[Platypus]

Correct me if I'm wrong.. the Celestion Blue is only rated for 15 W so you probably couldn't use the 30 watt mode on the LSS?

 

[RR]

Correct me if I'm wrong.. the Celestion Blue is only rated for 15 W so you probably couldn't use the 30 watt mode on the LSS?

Can I confirm you are correct if I cannot correct you? :lol:

From what specs I read, the Celestion Blue are rated at 15 watts.
Webers Blue Dogs are not only in 15 watt versions, but 30 watts, and 50 watt version for those who are not familiar with Weber.

 

[Platypus]

Correct me if I'm wrong.. the Celestion Blue is only rated for 15 W so you probably couldn't use the 30 watt mode on the LSS?

Can I confirm you are correct if I cannot correct you? :lol:

From what specs I read, the Celestion Blue are rated at 15 watts.
Webers Blue Dogs are not only in 15 watt versions, but 30 watts, and 50 watt version for those who are not familiar with Weber.

Cool, just dont want him to blow such an expensive speaker!

My father had one in his Dr. Z Maz Jr or Karmen Ghia, can't remember, and it slayed.. such a great speaker.

 

[rickc007]

thanks for all the replys

the V30 I purchased was actually from Mesa Boogie in Hollywood,
and it is very far from harsh

when I switch back to the C90, the mid/highs are a bit more pronounced

ideally from the C90, I was trying to extend the highs, and perhaps
tighten the bass a tad

thought the blue reputation of chimey would extend the highs,
review say the blue, and blue clones are loose in the bass

but, it is going to be a Celestion blue(or gold), a Tone Tubby, or
a weber blue( or silver) .... still deciding........

 

[RR]

Asks 908ssp about alnico Tone Tubby. He has a pair in enclosure.

Here's mine, but ceramic

Here's my Blue Dog on a an Allen "Champ" 5F1+

Personally (my preference) for a LoneStar Special I would recommend alnico magnet speaker for a "sweeter" tone.

 

[alejandro]

Concerning possible replacements for C90 and V30, check out the Eminence Redcoat line -- lots of choices if you want to tweak your sound but stay in Celestion realm of things -- or the Patriot line for a more American (Oxford, CTS, Jensen) type sound.

I second this motion, especially (addition: For anyone with an extension cabinet) if you have a 4x12 cab; you will have room to breathe a slight shape-shift in tone without totally compromising the overall delivery of the cabinet's voice.

If a 4x12 cabinet, I'd prefer to keep two of the same, that way one won't have an annoying hodge-podge of WTF when moving around... I think it would be harder to find the tone synergy with 4 different drivers in a single cabinet. That synergy, too, might only exist for a condenser room microphone.

I like my one Eminence Governor in my 4x12 Recto cabinet... it changes the intended tone of my Tremoverb, but not so much so that it is offensively non-Mesa Dual Rectifier. You get the picture.

If I gather correctly: that Mesa still specs the Celestions, and still deals only with English-made quality, then Mesa is the only company (to my knowledge) from which you can buy a V30, C90 (Classic Lead 80-ish) and Greenback - all of course with Mesa's little tweaks - that are probably truer in original design/construction, as opposed to those same, relatively lower-end speakers now made in China.

Am I correct in expecting this?

 

[macmax]

people often pair a v30 with a g12T-75

I have a Bogner cab and that is what it has.
I am expecting a Tremoverb to try that cab on Tuesday.

Any experiences with this???

I think the Tverb was designed after V30's, just want to know what it will do with the combination of the 2