Unboosted Roadster Question.

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jdurso said:
Couple things to consider when trying to achieve those tones:

1. The boost will provide extra compression in the preamp which not only smooth the top end but will also tighten the low end. So one thing you can do to reproduce that effect without a boost is to change your preamp tubes to a tube combination choosen for specific characteristics. For instance to emulate the preamp tube compression you get with a boost (especially at lower volumes) you can put something like an RFT ECC83 which has an earier breakup point and has a really aggressive characteristic but with very smooth highs. Then if you plug a Siemens ECC83 Long Plate in V2 you will add some richer harmonics and a very clear note definition. Then if you put something like a GE 12ax7a Long Plate in V3 for as very deep, defined bottom end that has a very clear punchy quality while still enhancing bass response. Then something like a Mullard 12ax7a in V6 to kill the buzzy charactersistics of the Recto and give the amp a sweeter, singing presence.

Going this route will help you further shape the way the amp sets up before you dial anything in. It really makes the amp your own and definitely sets it apart from other Rectos and other Roadsters. Case and point was this past 2 weeks i was on business trip in Cali and as usually hit up a bunch of music shops and played about 5 Roadsters over that time. None of those Roadsters could match what mine can do, and while the cab plays into that, the point is that tube change I made really set mine apart to what i wnat to hear in an amp. If your more curious about going this route check out my little experiement with my Roadster a few months back: http://forum.grailtone.com/ucp.php?i=pm&mode=view&f=0&p=81131

2. Gain/Presence/Mids settings are really important and are sometimes over looked. People tend to think to get the super heavy stuff you need to run the gain super high which isn't the case. Running the gain at and about 12 oclock or below will let your guitar's tone shine through the amp and will allow you to make the finer adjustments on the amp. if the gain is too high everything becomes mush no matter where the other settings are. The presence contols is another control that gets overused. I find the presence at or below 9 oclock will get you the punchy, smooth thump from the recto. As you get at or about 12 oclock the Recto fizz starts to emerge. Mids is the last setting that gets mis-used as people tend to scoop them which is fine for a mid heavy amp like a Marshall. Thing is the Recto is setup already scooped especially in the upper mids or singing mids. An OD is usually a great tool for adding back those upper mids but without using one, make sure you leave your mids at 11 oclock to 2 oclock.

3. Your cab and guitar pickups. To me there are 3 main pieces of gear that can make or break you tone. One is obviously your guitar and the pickups you use. A higher output pickup acts like an OD in a way by sending a hotter signal and depending on what the pickups eq curve looks like can also tighten the bass. The second piece is obviously the amp where the tubes and settings you use can dictate how your guitar translates into what we call "tone" once its outputted to the speakers. That said the last part is your cab/speakers. people tend to focus on what speakers are in the cab but i have found cab design can play just as important a role in how a cab sounds with an amp. My Mills cab to me is the perfect match to my recto and has the ability to handle any amount of bass while staying clear, powerful and strong. It is the best cab i've found for translating the tone my guitar and amp are trying to emaulate from my fingers. So my point here is your cab and pickups are just as important as your amp so dont overlook them.

4. Its been said in this post but I'll rehash the point.... you need to run this amp loud to get the tone your after WITHOUT a boost. They were built to be played loud and sound the best played loud. The reason for that is until you get to gig level volumes your preamp tubes arent at full compression which is more or less where a recto shines IMO. So unless you go with the idea of #1 or a boost, your going to need to run the sucker louder.

Wow dude, very insightful. I appreciate the tips very much. I run Bareknuckle Warpigs and Miracle Mans, and the head will played through a V30 loaded Mills Afterburner Straight cab...so I got the pickups and cab covered. And again, I also play at gig volumes in my single family home, so that is not an issue. Again, thanks. I'm looking forward to gettin this sucker.

Yeah, I play super metal (The br00talzzz) and I find that if you use these settings you'll be okay, but again...this is for me:

Guitar: Flaxwood Voima

Cab: Mesa 4x12 oversized recto

Channel 4: Modern

100w, no reverb
Silicon Diode

Ouput at 12 o clock
Master at 10 o clock
Treble at 1-2 oclock
Mids at noon
Bass at 10-11 o clock
Gain at 1-2 o clock
Presence at about 10 o clock

That get's a pretty brutal tone IMO, and I use no boost.

Just remember, as gain goes up, bass needs to come down.

Thanks, I'll keep all that in mind.
 
BTW a couple things to add:

1. A boost or OD isnt about adding extra gain. Its more about getting your preamps to the point of clipping which means they're super compressed. Mesas' gain is derived from the preamp so thats the point you want to hit as hard as you can to achieve truly over the top leads and brutal rhythms. Amps that are driven by power amp distortion achieve their clipping at super high volumes which is why people with power amp driven amps tend to need attenuators. With that said, since the Recto is preamp driven disortion a clean boost can work wonders and shouldnt be seen as a crutch by any means. Its a tool you use to achieve different tones... hence with a roadster your able to get 8 very distinct tones with just one pedal. If your run multiple boosts/ods like myself, you can get just about any tone you can think of.


2. One thing a boost will allow you to do and i believe set you apart tone wise is it allows you to use low and medium passive pickups while still achieving super heavy, over the top brutal high gain tones. The benefit of that method is a low or medium output pickup will have a lot more headroom (less compressed) which in my experience picks up more of the nuances of your guitar and overall i find them to have a more complex sound. So by boosting that low or medium output pickup, your getting the tone from your guitar in all its goodness and still getting the preamp compressed via the hotter signal. The end result is a super heavy tone with a lot more character than you'd get with just a high output pikcup into your amp or even a high output pickup boosted into your amp. I picked up this little trick from a fellow board member (chris mckinley) and i can say for sure that its an amazing approach to getting truly amazing tone. Keep in mind i swore by emgs for a very long time and was relunctant to switch over to a lower output passive pickup, but with the right boost you can achieve something you wouldnt be able to do without the boost.


I know a lot of people have a hard time buying into the idea of boosting an already high gain amp.... it took me a while too but i would say at least give it a try. I find its more about the concept than it is the end result that keep people from doing it and its understandable. But with that said approach boosts and ods as tools and dont be afraid to try it because thats just holding you back. Dont listen and make decisions with your preconceptions or your eyes or thoughts... let your ears decide whats right or wrong for you.
 
I'll definitely give it a shot. As you said, I'd almost be getting double the amp for the cost of a nice OD. Even if my primary tones I want out of the amp are unboosted ones, hell, 4 more sounds for ~100?! I'm in.

Any boosts you particularly recommend that works well with the Roadster?

Also once again, you've been a great help.
 
I own a Dual Recto (3 channel). I like the fact that it's a bit loose and that I can a boost in front of it. It's hard to get a super tight amp (Engl) to go the other way (looser) if you need that sound; I don't think there's such a thing a a loosener pedal, hehe.

Clear as mud? Get a booster.
 
Leaning towards the Fulltone OCD..but then again there is the Fat Boost 3 as well..

Which one is better with the roadster?
 
If you're looking for a Strapping Young Lad tone, Devin used a Maxon OD808 in front of his Recto and Stiletto.
 
kayman121 said:
Actually how would the Mark V compare to the roadster?


Two different monsters all together. The Rectos and marks are voiced very different and both do their thing very well. I liked the Mark V but love my Roadster 10x more... but that to me more has to do with what i like rather than which amp is better than the other.
 
kayman121 said:
I'll definitely give it a shot. As you said, I'd almost be getting double the amp for the cost of a nice OD. Even if my primary tones I want out of the amp are unboosted ones, hell, 4 more sounds for ~100?! I'm in.

Any boosts you particularly recommend that works well with the Roadster?

Also once again, you've been a great help.


My favs are the Fulltone OCD, Maxon OD808 and Xotic BB Preamp.

Each OD/Boost has its own character and i found the best way to figure out which suits you the best is to try as many as you can find.
 
jdurso said:
I know a lot of people have a hard time buying into the idea of boosting an already high gain amp....

Include me in that group. I have fought and fought the idea of using a boost. But I just ordered a Maxon OD808. Hoping it sounds better than the TS9 Reissue I had. I just dont like having to switch the boost off before I go to the clean channel.
 
fluff191 said:
jdurso said:
I know a lot of people have a hard time buying into the idea of boosting an already high gain amp....

Include me in that group. I have fought and fought the idea of using a boost. But I just ordered a Maxon OD808. Hoping it sounds better than the TS9 Reissue I had. I just dont like having to switch the boost off before I go to the clean channel.


thats what the rg-16 is for :wink:
 
jdurso said:
thats what the rg-16 is for :wink:

I dont even know what that is, but for the love of god I dont need another piece of gear!!!!




Ok maybe I do. Fill me in.
 
fluff191 said:
jdurso said:
thats what the rg-16 is for :wink:

I dont even know what that is, but for the love of god I dont need another piece of gear!!!!

Ok maybe I do. Fill me in.

Its a switcher... for more detailed info check it out here: http://rjmmusic.com/rg16.php

I use it to switch the Roadsters channels/functions as well as all my pedals and my Axe-fx. Basically i setup a "patch" by selecting which channel and functions i want on the amp, as well as what loops i want engaged and what patch i wnat on my axe-fx and save it to the preset on my midi controller and bam... i have a tone. Do that to my hearts desire and i have the switching capability of a modeller except with a tube amp and some high quality fx. 8)
 
Hmmm I see. Not sure I can do that with a Dual Recto. Doesn't have MIDI.

What do others do that use a boost? Just leave it on all the time or what?
 
fluff191 said:
Hmmm I see. Not sure I can do that with a Dual Recto. Doesn't have MIDI.

What do others do that use a boost? Just leave it on all the time or what?


No what i meant by midi is the type of control you have over the rg-16 and any midi fx units you have.

It hooks up to your amp one of two ways... either using the switching jacks in the back of the amp or the special made cable by RJM that uses the existing footswitch controller jack.
 
jdurso said:
No what i meant by midi is the type of control you have over the rg-16 and any midi fx units you have.

It hooks up to your amp one of two ways... either using the switching jacks in the back of the amp or the special made cable by RJM that uses the existing footswitch controller jack.

Holy Hell!!! That unit is almost a grand! :shock:

Great piece of gear though. Its like a simple version of a bradshaw switching system almost. Very cool.
 
After you try the Maxon you'll never go back. Switching isn't that big of a deal. I click it off live a couple of seconds before I go clean, and then a second or two after going dirty again.


..that sounded naughty...
 

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