Roadster and Multi Watt Recto Lead Tones

[Slyfox]

reetings,

Long time reader, first time poster.

I've had limited hands on experience with rectifiers over the years but from what I have had, it's always been a struggle to dial out the fizz and thinness in single note lead tones.  A friend lend me his roadster recently and I've experimented with leads on channel 3 and 4, different combinations of all switches and functions...so far the closest to something I really was inspired to play was the channel 3 raw mode, tube tracking, bold or spongy depending on volume....lower gain, but then a rat pedal with a slight clean boost from a plumes OD.  Might seem excessive but with raw mode and spongy, it is not a lot of amp gain.

It wasnt until I came across a posting, I think it was on here or TGP where a fella said he struggled with a smooth singing lead tone and tried putting all the EQ knobs on 0.  I tried that and it certainly smoothed it out.  As soon as I touch the mid or treble the raspiness comes back.  It's a shame a 4 channel amp with all these functions and the best lead tone I had is turning them all to 0. 

My question is, is adding a 5 or 6 band EQ in the loop help out with the raspiness at all? I would like to be able to use the amp eq to sculpt some tones.

My second question is, is a current production multi watt dual rectifier voiced much different than the roadster I'm borrowing?  Am I going to have any easier time dialing a smooth lead on a current recto?

I did have a Mark IV some years back and was always a nice lead tone but I'm looking for something different these days.

Any feedback or long ramblings of your experiences would be helpful.

 

[fjk1138]

I had a Roadster in 2009 and now have a 2022 modern Dual Rec Multi Watt.

In my opinion, you're better off setting all tone knobs to 12 noon and then tweaking from there. While Ch 3 & 4 are arguably voiced the same, in my experience Ch 3 worked better for Vintage and Ch 4 for Modern. That could be my own bias from previously having an early 2000's Triple Rectifier which was definitely setup that way.

You can certainly try an EQ in the FX Loop, but I would highly recommend that you read the manual and try their sample settings offered before you spend money:

https://mesa-boogie.imgix.net/media/User Manuals/Roadster_130613.pdf

In answer to your 2nd question, I found 4 channels on the Roadster to be overkill and I never used Ch 2 at all. I prefer the modern Dual Rec because it's simpler and has only 3 channels. In fact, the modern Dual Rec is my 7th and favorite Mesa amp of all time, if that helps you any.

 

[user 21540]

I would think a Tubescreamer type pedal will help with lead tones. You may not even need much gain just some level and set the tone knob to taste.

 

[Daughter of Boogie]

How high is your channel volume set? The louder you crank the amp, the less fizzy it gets. I have a multi-watt dual rec and if I have the loop bypassed and I turn the channel volume up to 10 o'clock or higher, there isn't much fizz at all. My lead setting on that amp is Channel 3 vintage, tube rectification, presence around noon, bass 10, mid 10, treble noon, and gain 4 o'clock - basically John Petrucci's rectifier settings with a little more presence added.

As @wildschwein advised, a tube screamer will also help as it will boost the mid frequencies and cut some bass and smooth out the highs.

 

[Eevil]

Setting treble to 0 will also help with fizz and feel with aforementioned channel volume up - method.

When the treble is at 0 one can use middle as a treble control and presence to dial in/out the brightness. Yet it’ll never be as fluid and effortless as Mark type lead there’ll always be some recto granularity and stiffness present in the tone.

I had best results for lead in roadsters ch 3 / vintage / 50w / diode / bold - that’d be best translated to ch 2 in multiwatt

 

[bandit2013]

This post is outdated but I will add my comments anyway.
The Roadster in all respects is a beast of an amp. It is the darkest toned amp I have ever owned except for the Mesa TT800 but that is a bass rig. Never considered dialing out midrange and treble. You can get some interesting characteristics with a change in two tubes. V1 and V2. Remember that V3 and V5 have cathode follower circuits so do not use Russian tubes there. For amazing clean channel sound, the JAN 5751 (Phillips or GE) installed in V1 does the trick. Swap V2 with a Mullard long plate 12AX7 and enjoy. This will slightly drop the gain for CH3 and CH4 but to some benefit. It actually sounds much tighter than it did with the stock 12AX7 (JJ ECC83s).

The Multi-Watt Dual Rec (reborn Recto) has a similar sub harmonic content but not as dark as the Roadster. It is one step closer to the Marshall sound we are familiar with but more of a hotrod of sorts. Similar to the Roadster, the sub harmonics tend to make it difficult to run with extended range instruments like a 7 string guitar. I am more of a traditional guitar player but I do use a 7 string once in a while. At least the MWDR does not fight you with harmonics like the Roadster does. With most of my guitars I can find dead spots at certain frets (usually the 12th fret on the G string) when using the Roadster. Tap harmonics are also difficult to create. MWDR does not seem to counter your playing as much. Much better for harmonics and such and no ghost dead spots due to cancellation effect from the amp.

The Badlander. Now that is something to write home about. Very similar preamp to the MWDR but Mesa decided to drop the SLO clone resistor value from 39k to 15k. Based on speculation, Mesa added another gain stage in front of the tone stack driver for the crush voice. This brings in a Mark level of compression. Fluid or liquid sounding leads are possible without the fizz. For me the Badlander is the next best thing Mesa came out with. I would not call it a Rectifier amp even though it shares some common DNA in its preamp. No more sub-harmonics to interfere with palm muting techniques, no mud. Perfect platform for use with 7 string or 6 string guitars. It is not exactly a British tuned amp like the Triple Crown so it does not come with a canned tune with upper midrange poison that you cannot dial out without the use of a GEQ in the FX loop. However, it is the closest Mesa you can get to a Marshall but with more refined character and good note definition. It is not too loose or too tight, it is just right. I no longer have the need for the GEQ in the FX loop. Can you boost it, sure you can if you must. I have tried the grid slammer and that works great on the crush voice. Flux Drive on the clean voice is also great. The Clean is not just for clean tones either. Dial in more gain and you get early Marshall tone. Crunch runs closer to a Rectifier modern voice but has more gain potential. A tone stack that works more like the JP-2C but it sits at the end of the gain stages driven by the Recto tradition (DC coupled cathode follower). After having the Badlander for some time since it came out, I have compared it to the other amps. Best with the EL34 tubes. No fizz unless you dial in as much gain as possible. Actually comparing the Badlander to the Royal Atlantic or Triple Crown, I found the Bad to be more to my liking. The other two have a fizzy characteristic. Even the JP-2C, Roadster and MWDR sound fizzy. Mesa did an excellent job mastering the power amp design with the current production EL34 tubes. Amazing sound compared to the other amps that were focused on the EL34 tubes. Odd that I find the 6L6 based amps to sound fizzy in their gain characteristic. I would recommend trying out the Badlander if you have not done so already. Try it with the gain dialed back first. Crush with the gain at 10am will deliver the Mark like sound. Crunch with the gain dialed up about midway is Rectifier territory but no low end drone. There is more to be found with the Bad that meets the eye. Only two channels, simple footswitch, three voices per channel and you can do cloning with it. No FX on/off control. However, despite the lack of features like 3-4 channels, different voices for dedicated gain structures, midi, reverb, and the like, the BAD makes up for it with awesome sound I have yet to get from my other Mesa with the bells and whistles. Dynamics of the BAD are also impressive. I can dial in a good grind on the Crush voice and roll back on the guitar to clean it up. This was the desired trait I loved with the Royal Atlantic and now I have it with the Badlander. Now I have two BADs to run in stereo format.