Tube vs Solid State.... is it mostly illusion?

[metalgarth]

Picture Billy Gibbons. What do you imagine him playing though?

Probably not this:

http://www.uberproaudio.com/content/view/304/38/1/1/

I saw him in St Louis a couple weeks back and loved it. He sounded great it was true ZZ Top through and through. But you'll notice he's using SOLID STATE poweramps all the way. I would not have guessed that in a million years. I love my Triaxis and Marshall 9100 power amp but sometimes I wonder if the differences between tube and solid state have been oversold.

In a blind comparison how many of us would be able to pick the difference between Tube and Solid State better than 50-50? Somehow I'm thinking not many of us.

 

[boswell]

Scroll to page 8 http://www.award-session.com/pdfs/GEAR_TALK_1.pdf

 

[metalgarth]

I don't doubt one word of that. I remember a guy I knew had a tube amp called a "Sundown" and I always thought it sounded like crap.

 

[camsna]

In general - no. It's not an illusion. Tubes sound different than transistors. Some favor one over the other.

That said, no matter what amp Billy Gibbons is playing, he'll sound like Billy Gibbons. I saw Stevie playing an old solid-state Music Man one time and he sounded like (you guessed it) -- Stevie!

I prefer the sound of a good tube amp to a good solid-state amp and so do many other guitarists. Preference thing, I guess. But NOT an illusion.

 

[boswell]

I'd say it was marketing hype rather than illusion.

 

[metalgarth]

In general - no. It's not an illusion. Tubes sound different than transistors. Some favor one over the other.

That said, no matter what amp Billy Gibbons is playing, he'll sound like Billy Gibbons. I saw Stevie playing an old solid-state Music Man one time and he sounded like (you guessed it) -- Stevie!

I prefer the sound of a good tube amp to a good solid-state amp and so do many other guitarists. Preference thing, I guess. But NOT an illusion.

My question for you is this, Could you identify solid-state vs. tube in a blind test with better than 50-50 results with a large number of amps (20 ss 20 tube for example)? That's what I mean when I say illusion. Are we being fooled by the eyes. More than once I've heard good players with Valvestates fool me. I really like the sound of my Marshall 9100 but I know partially it is because I can see the 6L6es glowing inside. I also know it is because I like the Marshall logo on things. Same is true with Mesa-Boogie.

 

[Whoopysnorp]

Personally, I think it's a feel thing. I played solid state amps for a long time because I thought I couldn't afford anything better, mainly a Kustom KLA100 combo (which actually has a pretty nice clean tone) and then a Marshall AVT150 head (in retrospect, blech). One time at a gig the Marshall took a crap onstage in the middle of a song, so I plugged into a friend's silverface Bassman that was doing backup duty. I wasn't wild about that particular tone but the feel was much, much better to me. At that moment I resolved to stick with tubes in the future.

 

[sixstringmonk]

Tubes have a different harmonic profile than SS does, and that's a fact. One is not better than the other. It all comes down to taste.

Personally, I like the sound of a tube power amp vs a SS power amp. However, I've found many SS distortion pedals that i prefer to some tube pre-amps.

 

[6L6C]

Then there is flip side of the coin:

There are people that swear but there modelers Line6 and so on, but go out of their way to use a tube power amp. To the point where a company has risen for the demand, Atomic amps. Comes in a few different versions, speaker and tube configurations. A tube amp (really just the power section) tailored for the modelers.

http://www.atomicamps.com/


As for me tube all the way! The solid state tech has improved allot thought the years but still not there yet.

 

[TemporarilyStairs]

It's a combination of fact and illusion, just as everybody else has sort of hit on. There's fundamental differences in how they sound, feel, react to signal, and everything else, but it's definitely not a straight up 'quality' thing. It's like, y'know, different tools, different jobs, different tastes, etc. etc.

My 50/50 tube vs. SS test would probably fail, depending. If it was just amps with low to mid gain, cranked like a mofo, I think a lot of us could probably do it. If we're talking, say like, crazy high-gain metal tones, it might not be so clear... and say, running a nice tube preamp into a bunch of different power amps, or anything else like that (not running to the point of nasty clipping, of course) and I think a lot of us would probably only do better than 50/50 thanks to blind luck. I wouldn't give myself an edge in it.

It's not 'hype' in the sense that they're definitely different, but different doesn't necessarily mean bad. I mean, didn't everybody in the world want Ty Tabor's tone for a while there? The JC120 is kinda a defining sound in Jazz, and a few of the old Ampeg models and whatnot are almost genre-defining in some forms of Metal. I actually kinda enjoy using slightly unconventional stuff, just to shut up the ____ snobs that happen along (fill in the blank with any guitar brand, amp brand, or the words tube, digital, or solid state)

 

[metalgarth]

Then there is flip side of the coin:

There are people that swear but there modelers Line6 and so on, but go out of their way to use a tube power amp. To the point where a company has risen for the demand, Atomic amps. Comes in a few different versions, speaker and tube configurations. A tube amp (really just the power section) tailored for the modelers.

http://www.atomicamps.com/


As for me tube all the way! The solid state tech has improved allot thought the years but still not there yet.

I kind of do the same thing by running my GT-10 right into my Marshall 9100. I use the GT-10's Soldano 100 model and a couple effects and it sounds like a beefed up Marshall.

But what is funny is that I think the best sounding SS amp was my old Randall RG80 from the early 80's. Cranked up a bit, it delivered a credible, warm distortion that wasn't harsh or brittle. This was one of the Randall amps made in Irvine, California for whatever that is worth

 

[metalgarth]

Tubes have a different harmonic profile than SS does, and that's a fact. One is not better than the other. It all comes down to taste.

Personally, I like the sound of a tube power amp vs a SS power amp. However, I've found many SS distortion pedals that i prefer to some tube pre-amps.

What's really interesting is that Marshall made an amp back in the early 80's that had a ss preamp and a tube power amp. I'd be curious to really hear and play that one.

 

[metalgarth]

It's a combination of fact and illusion, just as everybody else has sort of hit on. There's fundamental differences in how they sound, feel, react to signal, and everything else, but it's definitely not a straight up 'quality' thing. It's like, y'know, different tools, different jobs, different tastes, etc. etc.

My 50/50 tube vs. SS test would probably fail, depending. If it was just amps with low to mid gain, cranked like a mofo, I think a lot of us could probably do it. If we're talking, say like, crazy high-gain metal tones, it might not be so clear... and say, running a nice tube preamp into a bunch of different power amps, or anything else like that (not running to the point of nasty clipping, of course) and I think a lot of us would probably only do better than 50/50 thanks to blind luck. I wouldn't give myself an edge in it.

It's not 'hype' in the sense that they're definitely different, but different doesn't necessarily mean bad. I mean, didn't everybody in the world want Ty Tabor's tone for a while there? The JC120 is kinda a defining sound in Jazz, and a few of the old Ampeg models and whatnot are almost genre-defining in some forms of Metal. I actually kinda enjoy using slightly unconventional stuff, just to shut up the ____ snobs that happen along (fill in the blank with any guitar brand, amp brand, or the words tube, digital, or solid state)

Of course Diamond-Bag Darrell's best work was done with 100% solid state Randalls. Cowboys from Hell and Vulgar Display of Power

 

[MusicManJP6]

I played solid state for years before saving up for a tube amp. My first tube amp was an eye opener. Everything sounded better! I've played SS since then when i was in between amp purchases and borrowed a friend's amp, and although it did the trick it definitely wasn't a tube amp. I had trouble cutting through the band without totally cranking the volume and overwhelming the other players... You just can't beat the feel, tone, and cut of a real tube amp. Nothing like it even after all these years...

 

[metalgarth]

Tubes have a different harmonic profile than SS does, and that's a fact. One is not better than the other. It all comes down to taste.

Personally, I like the sound of a tube power amp vs a SS power amp. However, I've found many SS distortion pedals that i prefer to some tube pre-amps.

I remember a friend had a tube equipped Dean Markley overlord pedal, that did nothing for me at all compared to a standard Boss Overdrive or Distortion pedal.

 

[6L6C]

But what is funny is that I think the best sounding SS amp was my old Randall RG80 from the early 80's. Cranked up a bit, it delivered a credible, warm distortion that wasn't harsh or brittle. This was one of the Randall amps made in Irvine, California for whatever that is worth

Was that one of those Randall’s were you had a clean channel and a drive channel, but you could also combine them? I remember playing one years ago that could do that and when those two channels were combined, it sounded awesome.

Years ago I had a SS Ampeg I’m pretty sure it was called an SS-70, it was a combo, liked it allot great clean channel, but then I got my first tube amp so that was all over. Do any of you guys remember the “Seymour Duncan Convertible” still sorry I got rid of it.

 

[Razor]

The best SS amp I've ever heard is THE ROCKMAN. Scholz did a great job with these, and one could easily be fooled it's a tube amp. Everyone who has played it couldn't believe it. Although it does provide just 2 types of distortion and 2 types of cleans, you can still use an EQ in the loop to mold the sound to your preferences. Hell, I could even get a Metallica type sound out of it by cutting mids and boosting highs and lows.

 

[fishyfishfish]

Just depends on your point of view. Van Halen used H and H power amps to drive the signal from his Marshall's in the 80's. Personally I like the sound of a tube pre into a good SS power amp with a beefy transformer. But that is just me.

 

[t0aj15]

What's really interesting is that Marshall made an amp back in the early 80's that had a ss preamp and a tube power amp. I'd be curious to really hear and play that one.

I've still got a Peavey Mace that I bought 30 years ago that has a SS preamp that feeds six 6L6 output tubes.

 

[metalgarth]

The best SS amp I've ever heard is THE ROCKMAN. Scholz did a great job with these, and one could easily be fooled it's a tube amp. Everyone who has played it couldn't believe it. Although it does provide just 2 types of distortion and 2 types of cleans, you can still use an EQ in the loop to mold the sound to your preferences. Hell, I could even get a Metallica type sound out of it by cutting mids and boosting highs and lows.

As heard on "Third Stage" by Boston which does have some good tones.