Tube vs Solid State.... is it mostly illusion?

[MusicManJP6]

There's exceptions to every rule. There are some SS amps that sounds great and some tube amps that sound terrible... If it sounds good to your ears then go with it!

 

[metalgarth]

What's really interesting is that Marshall made an amp back in the early 80's that had a ss preamp and a tube power amp. I'd be curious to really hear and play that one.

I've still got a Peavey Mace that I bought 30 years ago that has a SS preamp that feeds six 6L6 output tubes.

That's got to be loud! Six 6L6s has to be close to 300 watts. I'm no expert by 9100 has 2 6L6s (in each side) and is rated at 50 watts per side

 

[camsna]

Depending on the transformer and the particular 6L6 - it'd be about 150 watts.

 

[metalgarth]

Depending on the transformer and the particular 6L6 - it'd be about 150 watts.

You are right... I can't multiply today! :roll:

The Egnater rebel has 2 6L6s and is rated @ 20 watts. Go figure

 

[JT_Marshmallow]

My question for you is this, Could you identify solid-state vs. tube in a blind test with better than 50-50 results with a large number of amps (20 ss 20 tube for example)? That's what I mean when I say illusion. Are we being fooled by the eyes. More than once I've heard good players with Valvestates fool me.

I think if a solid state (or valvestate) amp is set up well and is going through good speakers it can absolutely sound as good as a tube amp...BUT what if you were doing the test as a player and not a listener? A tube amp will make any guitar feel better in my hands. It just has this response and feel that is so natural and...well, you know.

 

[armyguyenglish]

Depending on the transformer and the particular 6L6 - it'd be about 150 watts.

You are right... I can't multiply today! :roll:

The Egnater rebel has 2 6L6s and is rated @ 20 watts. Go figure

The rebel has 2 6V6's and 2 EL84's... now the renegade is 2 6L6 and 2 EL34, but it's 65 watts...

 

[zamp]

Speaking of old SS amps, i had purchased a Gallien-Kreuger 212G back in the late 70's. The premise of that amp was that the "tube" sound came from the output transformers, so this SS amp had two honking output transformers on it. That, and a very solid frame withtwo EV 12s in it made it HEAVY. It had a great sound, but as stated earlier, different from a tube amp.

 

[MrMarkIII]

Acoustic 150b (the bass model), was also a great solid-state amp, 'specially cranked into the 6 x 10 cab.

 

[Danimal]

Scroll to page 8 http://www.award-session.com/pdfs/GEAR_TALK_1.pdf

I don't know that I'd enjoy having my photo on there with the caption "A young tranny..." :lol:

Could anyone do better than 50/50 in a blind test? Probably, but it would mostly be guess work. Simply listening wouldn't hold the key. As mentioned, tube amps have a different "feel" to them. Many solid state amps have the sound but not the feel. Same with modelers.

Every so often I go to a modeler or solid state amp because of the cost factor and I always go back to tubes. On a CD you won't tell the difference in sound, but playing it live I most certainly do.

 

[Thrashman]

the tube sound and feel(IMO) lies in the preamp. the poweramp is just another part of the tube feel, but its not as drastic as the feel in tube vs. SS preamp

 

[Anonymous]

Idk....someone come up with a solid state amp that sounds as good as my Bogners and we'll talk. I don't care if it's different or what, that I don't mind. But I really doubt a SS amp can be as good.

 

[MesaGod666]

Tube vs. Solid State...are we seriously having this conversation?

Digital technology has yet to duplicate every nuance of the tube amp medium. It has come close to being a poor imitation but that's about it. I'm talking about AxeFX and the Line6 digital modelers. AxeFX is the best imitator of them all but it still doesn't replicate the nuances of good old fashioned tubes. Here's the thing...every brand of tube is different as well, each having their own voice and nuance. Right now, digital technology has yet to replicate that.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[talltxguy]

I didn't start playing guitar til I was 18, so I have some pretty vivid memories of seeing concerts from a rock/metal fan's point of view, not a guitarist's point of view. I couldn't tell the difference between tube and solid state, nor did I care as a fan. I hung with a few guitarists but never gave a damn about getting involved in their technical discussions about equipment.

A lot of you Boogie Boardees can listen to somebody playing and tell the difference between tube & solid state. I've been playing for @ 13 years and cannot always tell the difference between the two. However, this I do know. I've played through solid state power amps, tube power amps, digital modelling, and tube preamps; and I prefer playing through tube simply because it feels looser and easier to cop the vibe I'm feeling, especially when soloing.

I don't feel any allegiance to tube amps because of the nostalgic factor; rather, I'm bound to them for what they allow me to do. That being said, if I found a solid state amp that allowed me to express myself as I can with tube amps, then I'd play the solid state just because solid state is less trouble and less maintenance in my opinion.

Don't know how many of you golf, but this kind of reminds of my putter issue: I've used some great putters to include Ping, Odyssey, and Taylor Made. Went through about 4 or 5 different ones before settling on a $75 Wilson a few years ago. And hey, the Wilson works magic for me like the expensive, "great" putters could never do.

 

[elvis]

I think it comes down to the real physical truth, which is that tubes make lousy amplifiers. A great amplifier has very little error, meaning you get out what you put in, but maybe louder. Transistors are very good at that - put in small signals, large signals, fast signals, slow signals, they don't care. They respond similarly in all cases - they reproduce the input faithfully.

On the other hand, with tubes, you don't know WHAT you'll get. Dial in a response, change the signal level or frequency, and you get a DIFFERENT response.

I think that is why we like tubes. Play soft. Play loud. Play fast. Play slow. Play high. Play low. Each has its own tone. So we can be MUCH more expressive. Once you learn to manipulate the changing reponse of the tube amp, you can get a wider range of expression out of it. With solid-state, you get the same stuff out regardless of how you play, with little exception.

 

[t0aj15]

What's really interesting is that Marshall made an amp back in the early 80's that had a ss preamp and a tube power amp. I'd be curious to really hear and play that one.

I've still got a Peavey Mace that I bought 30 years ago that has a SS preamp that feeds six 6L6 output tubes.

That's got to be loud! Six 6L6s has to be close to 300 watts. I'm no expert by 9100 has 2 6L6s (in each side) and is rated at 50 watts per side

Actually it's rated at 160 watts, and believe me it's VERY loud (although it hasn't been used for several years now).

 

[giorikas81]

Tube vs. Solid State...are we seriously having this conversation?

Digital technology has yet to duplicate every nuance of the tube amp medium. It has come close to being a poor imitation but that's about it. I'm talking about AxeFX and the Line6 digital modelers. AxeFX is the best imitator of them all but it still doesn't replicate the nuances of good old fashioned tubes. Here's the thing...every brand of tube is different as well, each having their own voice and nuance. Right now, digital technology has yet to replicate that.

Just my 2 cents.

And it went far more than that. Even more consistently than tubes. Download peavey's revalver and notice that it functions with virtual electric components. Virtual sag virtual negative feedback, choke, capacitors, types of tubes, everything.
And guess what.

Changing a tube alters the feel of the amp. And the sound. And a peavey poweramp module with EL34 sounds different than a marshall with EL34. That said if you put a config that it is electronically inefficient or impossible you will not get a sound at all. As a result the possibilities are limitless before you touch the speaker sim. And you have to be a tech to adjust it.

Also for the bogner guy. Let's say that your bogner sounds like this because of some characteristics that cannot be immitated. Let's also say that I hate the bogner sound...Who gives a ***k then?

 

[Anonymous]

Also for the bogner guy. Let's say that your bogner sounds like this because of some characteristics that cannot be immitated. Let's also say that I hate the bogner sound...Who gives a ***k then?

What's your point? And which Bogner amps have you heard?

 

[giorikas81]

Point is, tone is subjective!!! From up close only one xtacy. Didn't fell in love though!!! Neither with any clips. Good, first class sound, maybe one's dream sound and worthy of its reputation. So hate is an exaggeration. Just didn't tickle my pickle if you prefer.

Tube lovers=tube lovers , but some like both I guess...

 

[silentrage]

I'm pretty sure solid state will sound as good as tube one day, and feel as good, only a million times more useful and practical.
Computer technology double in speed every year or so, and software technology follow a few years behind, tube technology still lives in the 60s pretty much, it has no choice but to be emulated and replaced.
Sure people will still play tube amps for the mojo, but if I had to choose between something with mojo or something that does a million sounds and weighs much less, I'd go the practical route.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm pretty sure solid state will sound as good as tube one day, and feel as good, only a million times more useful and practical.
Computer technology double in speed every year or so, and software technology follow a few years behind, tube technology still lives in the 60s pretty much, it has no choice but to be emulated and replaced.
Sure people will still play tube amps for the mojo, but if I had to choose between something with mojo or something that does a million sounds and weighs much less, I'd go the practical route.

Digital technology has definitely gotten better, and there are some Randall solid state amps that are worth checking out for sure, but I don't believe digital or solid state will ever touch tubes. If people tried to make their own models of digital and solid state and stop emulating, there might be a breakthrough, but I don't think we'll ever see something like a JCM800 modeler that can't be distinguished from the real thing.

If you want practicality, have you seen the Triaxis? You get a computer controlling the tube circuitry, so you've got the flexibility of digital - not to be confused with analog solid state - but your tone is 100% tube. Quite far from the 60s! Even with digital though, you still need a way to amplify your signal. If it means going into the house PA, that's one thing, but otherwise you'll need a power amp and speaker cab just like any tube amp.

My point is that something like the Triaxis shows how tube technology not only moved from the 60s, but it's advanced to be just as flexible as digital with much, much better tone and feel. That said, the only reason to still go with digital or solid state would be to save money. I'm not sayin' money is easy to come by for everyone, but for most people it shouldn't be unrealistic to work a little harder for a bit to get a rig that's absolutely satisfying - something I believe digital technology will never deliver. Solid state might, but not in emulating classic tube amps.