triple recto not saturating

[mickrich]

Hi all
Hope somebody can help.
My TR is not saturating at all until the gain is up to about 3 o'clock on modern setting.
Up to that point it is dull and sounds like the guitar volume is turned way down like the preamp isn't getting the full signal. Even with the gain up it doesn't sound compressed/saturated.
I have tried 2 different sets of preamp/poweramp/rectifier tubes and they are both the same.
It is like this with any guitar and my Peavey 6505 works fine with same setup.
I use a ts808 in front too.
Thanks
Michael

 

[Melodyman]

Hi all
Hope somebody can help.
My TR is not saturating at all until the gain is up to about 3 o'clock on modern setting.
Up to that point it is dull and sounds like the guitar volume is turned way down like the preamp isn't getting the full signal. Even with the gain up it doesn't sound compressed/saturated.
I have tried 2 different sets of preamp/poweramp/rectifier tubes and they are both the same.
It is like this with any guitar and my Peavey 6505 works fine with same setup.
I use a ts808 in front too.
Thanks
Michael

Compared to a Peavey 6505 the Recto will sound like a lower gain amp imo. The gain will start to fuzz out around 3:00 and lose clarity and still won't sound as shreddy/saturated as the Peavey. You already stated you use a clean boost and that will help but the way the gain is voiced on a Recto might take some getting used to, especially when your ears are accustomed to the 6505 gain level and voicing.

I've heard similar complaints in the past from people about the Recto's not having as much gain as they thought it would especially when they were coming from using a Line 6 "insane" or other super shredding type of gain patch, Peavey 5150, etc...

 

[wildrat666]

the 5150 has alot of saturated gain ( or what it is called)and the mesa don t.....

the mesa got more tone though.....keep the gain around 1-2 oclock. boost it with an overdrive(settings like volume max, tone 12 oclock, gain zero).....check the bass so it is around 11-12 oclock not more(if you dont play really loud)

you should get a saturated tone but not as much as the 5150

 

[MesaGod666]

The thing with Recto's you have to keep in mind is that it is very easy to confuse gain with tone. Tone is the sound of your guitar through the amp and gain is the level of voiced thickness of that tone. Anything above 2 o'clock on a RECTO is too much gain, IMO. You have to crank those amps to really get a friggen sweet tone. They are designed to be played VERY loudly. You should try using an Ibanez TS-808 or Keeley Modded TS-808. Those little pedals take the RECTOS to a completely different level.

 

[YellowJacket]

The thing with Recto's you have to keep in mind is that it is very easy to confuse gain with tone. Tone is the sound of your guitar through the amp and gain is the level of voiced thickness of that tone. Anything above 2 o'clock on a RECTO is too much gain, IMO. You have to crank those amps to really get a friggen sweet tone. They are designed to be played VERY loudly. You should try using an Ibanez TS-808 or Keeley Modded TS-808. Those little pedals take the RECTOS to a completely different level.

+1

I find the gain mushes out on a recto/ red channel because when you dime the gain, those 12ax7s are being pushed past the limit. In my experience, there is such a thing as too much gain and in fact, I've heard a pretty convincing metal tone come out of an Orange Tiny Terror so I don't think gain is the problem. When listening to a video of a 6505 vs a Dual, the dual is easily as thick but the peavey just has a more aggressive sound i.e. the amp is voiced to emphasize intense highs. (sounds more fizzy to my ears) The boogie, by contrast, is much more smooth and creamy although brutal in its own right.

Perhaps, your problem is that the triple isn't the amp for you. I pulled up some videos on youtube, and even though we're comparing tone with camera mics here, you can really hear the differences between these two beasts.

Peavey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWLn239IAvM
[EDIT] ****, I just figured out that I got rickrolled by a Bugera. I was wondering why I actually liked the tone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjDhPxvidaE
Here is the peavey. Buzzy like a stomp box =-(

Dual Recto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXznGqMErUE

Triple Recto with PRS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgGnWufCjso

 

[Cleekster]

Hi all
Hope somebody can help.
My TR is not saturating at all until the gain is up to about 3 o'clock on modern setting.
Up to that point it is dull and sounds like the guitar volume is turned way down like the preamp isn't getting the full signal. Even with the gain up it doesn't sound compressed/saturated.
I have tried 2 different sets of preamp/poweramp/rectifier tubes and they are both the same.
It is like this with any guitar and my Peavey 6505 works fine with same setup.
I use a ts808 in front too.
Thanks
Michael

is your triple a new purchase or is this a newly developed problem with an amp you've had for some time?

The triple in my opinion isn't very distorted compared to the single/duals IMO but you have to understand that while you're 5150 has lot's of sustain...Recto's don't...they have lot's of gain. you may find that in addition to your clean boost pedal that you might want another pedal to give you some extra sustaining OD for your solo's(i use a Bad Monkey for this). Conversely you might want to see if a dual or single rec suits your style better.

 

[Jaredface]

Compared to a Peavey 6505 the Recto will sound like a lower gain amp imo. The gain will start to fuzz out around 3:00 and lose clarity and still won't sound as shreddy/saturated as the Peavey. You already stated you use a clean boost and that will help but the way the gain is voiced on a Recto might take some getting used to, especially when your ears are accustomed to the 6505 gain level and voicing.

I've heard similar complaints in the past from people about the Recto's not having as much gain as they thought it would especially when they were coming from using a Line 6 "insane" or other super shredding type of gain patch, Peavey 5150, etc...

+1 I own 6505+ and RKII. What melodyman said is 100% spot on....Well said.

 

[YellowJacket]

Compared to a Peavey 6505 the Recto will sound like a lower gain amp imo. The gain will start to fuzz out around 3:00 and lose clarity and still won't sound as shreddy/saturated as the Peavey. You already stated you use a clean boost and that will help but the way the gain is voiced on a Recto might take some getting used to, especially when your ears are accustomed to the 6505 gain level and voicing.

I've heard similar complaints in the past from people about the Recto's not having as much gain as they thought it would especially when they were coming from using a Line 6 "insane" or other super shredding type of gain patch, Peavey 5150, etc...

+1 I own 6505+ and RKII. What melodyman said is 100% spot on....Well said.

**tangent**

I'm curious about the common sentiment here toward Peavey amps. Am I the only one who feels they are a tube amp trying to be a stomp box? Personally, I always felt that the point of tube amps is to have tone and a saturated sound really obscures that. Maybe I'm just being a snooty amp 'wine tester / cork sniffer' and being put off by the Peavey label but I don't know. I always thought their amps sounded terrible and I much prefer a Marshall or a Mesa. I am aware that many of you don't share my sentiment, but in my mind, most high gain amp makers are trying way too hard to be the biggest, baddest, and most aggressive and I feel like the musical end of it can be forgotten in the process.

Ultimately, it is about what the individual guitarist likes. If I liked Peaveys, I would have bought one. The reality of the situation is that Mesas are over hyped so some people are bound to be disappointed. NEVER buy gear on a recommendation, at least without trying it first.

 

[Melodyman]

**tangent**

I'm curious about the common sentiment here toward Peavey amps. Am I the only one who feels they are a tube amp trying to be a stomp box? Personally, I always felt that the point of tube amps is to have tone and a saturated sound really obscures that. Maybe I'm just being a snooty amp 'wine tester / cork sniffer' and being put off by the Peavey label but I don't know. I always thought their amps sounded terrible and I much prefer a Marshall or a Mesa. I am aware that many of you don't share my sentiment, but in my mind, most high gain amp makers are trying way too hard to be the biggest, baddest, and most aggressive and I feel like the musical end of it can be forgotten in the process.

Ultimately, it is about what the individual guitarist likes. If I liked Peaveys, I would have bought one. The reality of the situation is that Mesas are over hyped so some people are bound to be disappointed. NEVER buy gear on a recommendation, at least without trying it first.

Peavey like most amp brands have their good and bad points about them. For years I avoided Peavey because of the stigma I had towards them, my first amp was a Peavey Backstage Plus back in '84 and while it was a good practice amp I avoided the brand all together when I started getting into tube amps later on.

On a whim one day I plugged into a 6505+ and was surprised by how much I liked the distortion and ended up buying one a few weeks later. Great bang for the buck amp imo and the 5150 amp series in general are all over a ton of recordings which to me says something about them.

But I completely understand why someone wouldn't like them, and do agree that the amp is in some ways a $1000 distortion pedal lol.

I personally don't believe in a magical "holy grail" do it all type amp anymore so I buy amps that can do different things depending on my needs/whims at any given time.

So it's nice for me having my Roadster, 6505+ and other amps because they all do different things that I appreciate. Plus for recording it's really cool to mix different amp tones and is alot of fun imo.

 

[Cleekster]

Compared to a Peavey 6505 the Recto will sound like a lower gain amp imo. The gain will start to fuzz out around 3:00 and lose clarity and still won't sound as shreddy/saturated as the Peavey. You already stated you use a clean boost and that will help but the way the gain is voiced on a Recto might take some getting used to, especially when your ears are accustomed to the 6505 gain level and voicing.

I've heard similar complaints in the past from people about the Recto's not having as much gain as they thought it would especially when they were coming from using a Line 6 "insane" or other super shredding type of gain patch, Peavey 5150, etc...

+1 I own 6505+ and RKII. What melodyman said is 100% spot on....Well said.

**tangent**

I'm curious about the common sentiment here toward Peavey amps. Am I the only one who feels they are a tube amp trying to be a stomp box? Personally, I always felt that the point of tube amps is to have tone and a saturated sound really obscures that. Maybe I'm just being a snooty amp 'wine tester / cork sniffer' and being put off by the Peavey label but I don't know. I always thought their amps sounded terrible and I much prefer a Marshall or a Mesa. I am aware that many of you don't share my sentiment, but in my mind, most high gain amp makers are trying way too hard to be the biggest, baddest, and most aggressive and I feel like the musical end of it can be forgotten in the process.

Ultimately, it is about what the individual guitarist likes. If I liked Peaveys, I would have bought one. The reality of the situation is that Mesas are over hyped so some people are bound to be disappointed. NEVER buy gear on a recommendation, at least without trying it first.

if any amp was going to win an award for being an overglorified stompbox it have to go to the Mesa Recto more than any other amp IMO.Rectos are pure gain with very little sustain UNLIKE the peavey stuff...having said that i run my mesa totally different than most so my tone is closer to a hot rodded fender bassman or a marshall plexi than your typical recto.

Preamp distortion is preamp distortion be it Peavey or Marshall or Mesa...SS or tube.....it's fizzy,buzzy, compressed. and lacks dynamics and touch sensitivity IMO. some like this sound others don't....ther are some amps however that are capable of good sounds in the preamp and so it really depends on the circuit design IME. i LOVE the peavey XXX and i think the JSX and 5150 line are okay but there are better amps out there that do the same job.

 

[YellowJacket]

if any amp was going to win an award for being an overglorified stompbox it have to go to the Mesa Recto more than any other amp IMO.Rectos are pure gain with very little sustain UNLIKE the peavey stuff...having said that i run my mesa totally different than most so my tone is closer to a hot rodded fender bassman or a marshall plexi than your typical recto.

YAY!! DISCUSSION! I bet your tone HAULS! Just hearing that description makes me interested =-)

So what you are saying is that a Recto can become saturated and lose tone if the gain is too high? Is it an amp problem or a user problem?

I don't know if I agree about a recto being at all akin to a stomp box. At worst, they have a tonne of gain and they can become far too compressed when it is dumped but isn't infinite sustain a byproduct of massive amounts of compression? (Think peavey here) I recall a guitar salesman at L&MQ going on and on about how 'Mesas are one trick ponies' but I can get so many tones from my Dual just by variating pick attack and working the volume knob on my guitar.

For me, when I knock an amp for being like a Stomp box, I am saying several things. First of all, the sound of the amp doesn't change from guitar to guitar. Secondly, the sound is far, FAR, overgained. Think like a solid state amp. There is so much distortion that the sound doesn't really have much decay and maintains saturated intensity for a long time. As blasphemous as it is to say this, my Peavey Rage 158 has tonnes more gain than a recto and the sound is so hot and saturated that it can cover many technical deficiencies in a guitarists playing. I can dime all that gain and the sound still doesn't mush out. I get the impression that Peavey's goal with all their high gain heads is to make gear that is more BRUTAL than anyone else and in that aim, it succeeds. They try to capture the feel of a solid state amp or a stomp box in a tube amp, where you so much as breathe on the strings and get a massively huge sound from the guitar. If you even touch in the vicinity of a fret, a note WILL sound guaranteed. Line 6 insane setting is like this too. Basically the clip characteristic of a solid state amp is that the threshold for maximum clip is reached really quickly so you end up with this case of massive compression and a tonne of gain that sustains forever, regardless of the severity of the pick attack. I find that when players upgrade to tube gear, they get disenchanted because most tube amps simply don't behave this way.

Tubes, even with preamp distortion, have a much softer threshold into clipping so this is why you get the feel of far less sustain on tube amps compared to solid state ones or stomp boxes. What I'm saying is that in my mind the Peavey tube heads try to copy the solid state sound envelope. Rectos, however, do not. My perception is that rectos are about being aggressive but also having tone too. They kind of sound like a Mark IV but rougher, not as neat and tidy. The thing that drew me to them in the first place was the mid range focused crunch that is so great for rock and punk. It lacked the tinny buzzy scoop of a Marshall and really had a nice purr to it. The sound to me is much more chunky or phat than anything. Also, contrary to popular opinion, I think the cleans are actually pretty decent.

Perhaps being a glorified stomp box means something different to you than it does to me. If so, please elaborate and feel free to disagree. Discussions make forums fun!

To get a smooth lead, you need to play well. Guitarists might complain about getting the frets down to get a good sound, but good technique is required on many other instruments so I don't see why we should be exempt.

Preamp distortion is preamp distortion be it Peavey or Marshall or Mesa...SS or tube.....it's fizzy,buzzy, compressed. and lacks dynamics and touch sensitivity IMO. some like this sound others don't....ther are some amps however that are capable of good sounds in the preamp and so it really depends on the circuit design IME. i LOVE the peavey XXX and i think the JSX and 5150 line are okay but there are better amps out there that do the same job.

Very good point. I can't stand running my gear at low volumes because I really like the power section to be involved. I mean with the recto, you can push the power section into a real clip unless you want it to flub out but you can push it to the edge and the sound just fills out very nicely. At low volumes, it just isn't the same. I've found I do get a lot of dynamic response where I run my gain. The thing I like best about a tube amp is how the sound quality changes drastically depending on how the guitar is played.

Peavey like most amp brands have their good and bad points about them. For years I avoided Peavey because of the stigma I had towards them, my first amp was a Peavey Backstage Plus back in '84 and while it was a good practice amp I avoided the brand all together when I started getting into tube amps later on.

Same here. I was shopping for a 4 x 12 and stopped by the local Peavey dealer--bear in mind this was several years back--and I tried their cabs. I was very unimpressed with both the salesmen and the cabs. The dudes were gaffawing and mocking my amp for lack of gain, saying the Triple X and 5150 II could school it. Knowing that I was running really grindy celestions at home with my light gained punk tone, I flipped onto the modern channel, re-eq'd the amp and let unbridled recto tone lay their store to waste. I packed up my gear and walked out of the store with a smug grin on my face as they were picking their jaws up off of the floor.

On a whim one day I plugged into a 6505+ and was surprised by how much I liked the distortion and ended up buying one a few weeks later. Great bang for the buck amp imo and the 5150 amp series in general are all over a ton of recordings which to me says something about them.

I was listening to some youtube clips of the 6505. Basically, some guys can't get a good tone to save their lives but I also heard some decent ones. One guy ran his head through a Mesa Rectocab and his sound totally hauled. Still, I have also heard guys dial in very similar sounds to this one with a Recto.

But I completely understand why someone wouldn't like them, and do agree that the amp is in some ways a $1000 distortion pedal lol.

They always sound better to me when someone else plays them. MY sound does not exist in any peavey.

I personally don't believe in a magical "holy grail" do it all type amp anymore so I buy amps that can do different things depending on my needs/whims at any given time.

So it's nice for me having my Roadster, 6505+ and other amps because they all do different things that I appreciate. Plus for recording it's really cool to mix different amp tones and is alot of fun imo.

Exactly. Same goes for guitars. Tonight I was Gassing for a strat and I'd really REALLY love a good marshall head to complement my recto. If I had money, I'd have several guitars: My Les Paul, a Strat with single coils, a PRS ce 22 or the like, and a semi hollow body jazz box. For amps I'd run the Dual, a Marshall of some flavour, (Probably a JCM 800) a Vox AC30, A Standard Rectocab, a Marshall 1960ax (greenbacks) a Marshall 1960 vintage with two v30s swapped out for G12H 30s in an X pattern with the v30s. Picky PICKY!! I just stick with the Gibson LP and Dual for the time being because being a student is expensive. (I seriously thought about trading it for a Marshall this summer though. I was SUPER impressed with the TSL100 through my Standard Rectocab. It just LOVED the Les Paul)