Triple rectifier tone problems

[ollievk]

Hey guys, I'm having problems getting the exact tone i want from my rectifier. I'm thinking of getting some new tubes maybe, but I'm trying to get the black album sort of sound as a basis.

I'm running a 3 channel triple rectifier through a recto 4X12 cab, with a maxon od808 as a gain boost and a ns-2 as a noise gate. I'm going to get rack eq's and compressors eventually, but I'm not sure now if this is the amp for my sound.

I'm also playing through an ESP MX 250 II. But yeh, the sound seems a bit loose, the bass is there, sounds awesome on picking riffs, but the gain sounds a bit messy, not really that tight at times.

What's the Mark IV like for high gain stuff, don't care for cleans or crunch, got another amp for that!

But yeh, any suggestions would be great!

 

[Elpelotero]

save yourself the trouble of research, and take a leap of faith on a veteran's advice--get the mark4. It will nail the black album sound 99%

 

[ollievk]

yeh??! That sound's pretty convincing to me! What about the low end on the Mark IV, does it compare to the recto?

 

[Elpelotero]

no...the recto's loose low end is what's killing you from getting that tight metallica sound. The mark4 cuts like a knife for riffing. No messy gain and no loose bottom.

The mark4's preamp was designed around the circuit of the mark2c+, which is the amp metallica used to record everything from puppets to reload. The mark4 is simply a little darker and much cheaper by about $2000.

You can also shoot for a triaxis or studio preamp, which has the C+ tone designed inside.

If you're not getting a tight sound out of the recto and you already have an od808 and an ESP, you've got to make the jump to something else.

 

[ollievk]

yeh that's true. i think i'll have to try the markIV out most definitely, i'm in the UK and i ordered my recto from the states, i had SUCH a massive problem with the transformer because the price was increased on it, all for the sound i didn't want!! I recorded with a triple recto, but now i've had time to really get used to it, and it doesn't really cut it.

Thanks for the advice dude, the mark 2C+, what you think of that man!?

 

[mrd]

A MarkIIC+ would be sweet, they are hard to come by and are fucking expensive heh.

A MarkIV would most likely suit your tastes just fine.

Out of curiosity, how are you EQ'ing your Recto? Because I can make my Recto sound fairly similar to my Mark, especially if I throw an EQ in the loop.

Also, keep in mind the sound on the Black Album is the product of a multimillion dollar studio operated by one of the best producers around. I know you said you wanted something "close" to it, but I'm just warning you... you're never, ever gonna nail it.

But I'll throw my vote in for a MarkIIC+ or a MarkIV for sure.

 

[ollievk]

yeh obviously i'll never get the layered glory of that album, but i want to get close. At the moment no EQ's, I was planning on getting some rack EQ's when i get paid (friday), just too scoop out some high mids and a little of the low end.

Yeh, what are you using??

I've already gone through a Krankenstein, couldn't get the right tone from the right, the triple recto doesn't seem to be right either though.

So you think the Mark IV or C+ then will be closer to the sound i want??

Thanks by the way dude

 

[mrd]

I'd stay away from rack EQ's unless you get an extremely high-end analog one. I bought a $300 one a while back and I ended up relegating it to my microphones because it coloured the tone of the amp way too much. You can probably get away with a small, high-quality pedal EQ to achieve what you want. If you really wanna go nuts, you can try out a parametric EQ, which allows you to change the frequency band being affected, as well as how wide the swath of affection is (known as Q). Not sure how much those run for, never seen one or looked for one.

I use a simple MXR 7-band EQ, it's OK, but it does colour the tone (not as badly as the rack mount one I had.) I use it to taper off low-end for my Road-King, sub-80hz stuff I bring down a lot, then some 200hz stuff down a bit to clean up the riffing, and very, very small boosts in some high end ranges. Be careful here though, the pedal itself already lends it's own high-end voicing, so adding even more with the pedal's functionality can ruin your tone. I think my boosts are in the range of 0.5-1dB, maybe even less.

 

[ollievk]

hmmm i see, cheers for that man, actually really helpful. Do you think getting a decent compressor and EQ will help my tone issues?? Have you played on a Mark IV at all?

 

[Elpelotero]

I would second what was mentioned about EQ's. Either get a high quality piece or get a pedal and put it in the loop to dial out bass. I don't think a compressor will help out as much.

As for what I think about the C+, it's the best amp ever. I was lucky to get it rather cheap compared to market values.

Don't forget about the triaxis and studio preamps.

 

[mrd]

I wouldn't bother with a compressor, I've never found them to be terribly helpful in the loop or otherwise.

What I would do is go to your local shop and ask them for the highest quality EQ pedal they have, tell them that you're putting it in the loop of your guitar amp so you want as little tone-colouration as possible. Obviously the more bands you get, the better, but still keep in mind that shitty pedals will add noise and garbage to your signal.

From there, I would do what I suggested and just lower down some bass frequencies and see what you can come up with. Keep in mind some basic frequencies that are coming off your guitar...

Low E string is roughly 82Hz, a low D would be 73Hz, low C is 65Hz and low B is 61Hz. So, ideally what you want to do is remove or significantly lower any frequencies below the lowest string's frequency on your guitar, since your guitar shouldn't naturally produce anything below this. Unless you have a whammy bar and you do a huge dive..but the signal will still sound fine even if you dip off the low-end a lot.

With this you should be able to dial your TR gain up to like 2 or 3 o'clock and it should still be fairly clean, in terms of bass frequencies. Keep everything else at noon and set your volume to as loud as you can handle it for jamming and set the rectification to silicon diodes. You should have a pretty sweet tone going on with this. Throwing a boost in front helps as well, but even without one, you should still have a nice tone.

I've played a MarkIV yeah, I own one. What I've noticed about the MKIV is that, compared to Rectos, it's voiced to be tighter in a much broader range of frequencies, especially the mid-range, which gives it that classic, gainy Mark bite.

If you can afford it, keep the TR and get a MKIV too... I can tell ya, nothing beats running a good Recto along side a MKIV.

 

[ollievk]

well i'm playing in D standard, so there is a bit more low frequencies there anyway, strictly because it's easier for vocals as I generally play in the open E (D) key.

Cheers for the EQ advice, I think I may invest in a decent rack one to be honest, I'm working 7 day weeks at the moment, so I'll be able to pay for a decent one soon!

Yeh i was thinking of getting a Mark IV aswell, maybe using it as a pre amp. I'm going to try out some KT88's and 66's in the triple rec first.

I've heard the Mark IV isn't that good for rhythm stuff, more a nice leady tone!?

 

[Elpelotero]

depends what you like for rhythm stuff...do you like metallica, chevelle, and lamb of god tones?

 

[ollievk]

metallica - the black album is the tone i'm basically going for

 

[Elpelotero]

then the mark4 has a stellar rhythm sound in your case

 

[ollievk]

yeh?? the only thing i've heard is that it's not so good for rhythms, more a nice warm lead sound. Do you think there is a way I can simply tighte up the recto?

 

[mrd]

lol... didn't we just go over that? :shock:

 

[ollievk]

haha yeh, sorry I just don't wanna spend loads of time and money on it , for it to sound wank, and equally i don't wanna get a mark IV for it to not be any good, if you know what I mean?

I do well appreciate all the help guys though, any more would be great!

 

[mrd]

Well I'll say this:

Metallica's early tone reeks of Mark. I think James slaved into Marshall power-amps earlier on for the brash EL34 tone, but the Mark pre-amp voicing in still there. You can get close to Mark territory with some careful EQ'ing and **** but at the end of the day, it's probably better to just get a MKIV. They are great, great amps, very versatile, probably more-so than the TR. It'd be nice to have both, but if you can't and you want a black album type tone, then get the MKIV man. Or the MKIIC+ if you can find one and afford it.

 

[ollievk]

Ok, well i think for now I'm going to stick out with the recto, get some kt88's and kt66's with it from eurotubes. I'm going to get a decet EQ, and see where that takes me. If i'm still not happy I'll look at the Mark IV, or maybe when i've got more money to hand!

But thanks so much for the help guys