TriAxis/2:Ninety: I THINK I ROYALLY F**KED UP!

[MesaGod666]

So, I mounted my Palmer PGA04 and PDI03 into my 20 space rack today. Sounded pretty cool...until I heard a loud screetching noise (which sounded a lot like feedback?) and a loss of gain. It sounded like these screetches came from both the preamp and the poweramp. I had wired my preamp through my GCX into my poweramp through the GCX. No sound at all when plugged into the GCX. Plugged into the Triaxis definitely considerable loss of gain. Not sure what to say about the poweramp. The gain settings were set pretty high for this amp, but I was getting amazing saturation (TriAxis: Master 5.0, Master Volume Knobs 5/2:Ninety: Main Volume set at 11 o'clock). I actually don't use this rig all that often. In fact, I probably played it for a total of 5 hours in it's entire life (not kidding).

So here are my questions:

1. WTF happened?! The preamp tubes look fine. Did I destroy something on the inside?
2. How can I ensure that this doesn't happen again?

Please help!

 

[elvis]

Wow - I'm sorry to read that. What a nightmare.

Given your history on this forum, I'm going to assume you knew what you were doing when you wired it. It would help though if you were a little more specific about the setup.

Were you using the THROUGH on the Palmers into actual speaker cabs, or just the internal dummy loads?
Were the Palmers hooked up through the GCX, or direct from the 2:90 outputs?
Did you switch the GCX at all while you were playing?
Afterwards, when you played through the Triaxis, had you completely unwired it from the GCX, or was it still tied to the 2:90 through the GCX?

I think you will have to divide and conquer. Play the Triaxis into some other power amp to see if it's OK. Drive the 2:90 with a different preamp and into real speakers to see if it's OK. Try the GCX with some other gear to see if it's OK. Try the Palmers with something else to see if they're OK.

One thing that may have happened is that the Palmers may have made the 2:90 unstable, and it oscillated. It kind of sounds like that's what happened. That could have damaged the power tubes or trannys (God forbid!). The Palmers are supposed to be really nice boxes, but they only emulate a speaker load, and I don't know how stable the 2:90 design is. It may rely on speaker inductance to keep the loop stable. Or not.

Good luck!!!

 

[MesaGod666]

Yeah, I knew what I was doing. I just didn't think that the 2:Ninety was that unstable or maybe the Palmers failed or whatever. I used both the internal load on the Palmers and a 4x12 through the Palmers. I was only jamming on it for 30 minutes before it all went to ****.

Personally, I think I for sure blew the preamp tubes in both the 2:90 and the Triaxis, but I unfortunately do not know enough about the inner workings of this amp to make an accurate diagnosis. Everything works, but I'm taking it to my tech and I'm going to have him look it over, change the tubes, and test it out. I also called Boogie and they said that this is not covered under warranty as the Palmer PDI03 speaker load was used instead of a 4x12 cabinet speaker load. Not totally thrilled about that either, but I haven't read any reviews or overviews stating that it was unsafe for the amp. A little bummed out about that, but it's live and learn.

 

[elvis]

I can't imagine how a load problem could damage preamp tubes in either the power amp or preamp (not that it couldn't happen, I just can't imagine how).

I am concerned that running the Palmer internal load AND a speaker load could have overloaded the power amp. Or did you use them individually at different times, and not at the same time?

It is a bit of a mystery about the preamp. I wonder if the GCX is somehow involved.

There's not much circuitry to go bad with the preamp tubes. I would retube and see if it gets better. Could be just the tube that drives the Triaxis main outs that went bad (assuming you're running from the main outs to the power amp). On the 2:90, could be the P/I tubes if there was a kickback, but there's a lot more to go wrong with it, so I'd have it looked at carefully.

 

[MesaGod666]

I can't imagine how a load problem could damage preamp tubes in either the power amp or preamp (not that it couldn't happen, I just can't imagine how).

I am concerned that running the Palmer internal load AND a speaker load could have overloaded the power amp. Or did you use them individually at different times, and not at the same time?

It is a bit of a mystery about the preamp. I wonder if the GCX is somehow involved.

There's not much circuitry to go bad with the preamp tubes. I would retube and see if it gets better. Could be just the tube that drives the Triaxis main outs that went bad (assuming you're running from the main outs to the power amp). On the 2:90, could be the P/I tubes if there was a kickback, but there's a lot more to go wrong with it, so I'd have it looked at carefully.

That's exactly what I think. The GCX might have been the one to fritz out or perhaps I blew a capacitor. Either way, I wonder how I was able to hear the high pitch oscillation from the units...or perhaps it was coming from the Palmer?

I'm having my guy Jeff at Savage Audio look into this for me. This is all professional gear so, anything other than a bad tube would be VERY surprising (meaning I would drop this rack set up in a heartbeat and go with an ENGL).

This gear is practically BRAND NEW!

 

[MesaGod666]

Well, today I regrettably returned the brand new Palmer PDI03 and PGA04 boxes. Based upon my conversations with Chris and Marcus at Boogie, I think it's probably more safe to use another ISO Cab with an actual speaker load. This would be a great opportunity for the guys at Boogie to build a DI box that is compatible with their gear. They would make a killing (especially if it would keep the warranty intact). That's the other thing with the Palmer PDI03 and PGA04 boxes...IT VOIDS YOUR WARRANTY.

I also dropped off the amp at Savage Audio today. Jeff is a really cool dude with tons of experience. I'm really curious if he is able to salvage the 2:Ninety. If the 2:Ninety is trashed, then I'll be putting in a new order on Monday for a new 2:Ninety as well as an Axe-Fx II (I didn't like the ULTRA but I'm going to give this another shot). There goes my savings. Might be time to start off loading some stockpiled gear.

 

[Hellraiser6502]

If the 2:Ninety is trashed, then I'll be putting in a new order on Monday for a new 2:Ninety as well as an Axe-Fx II (I didn't like the ULTRA but I'm going to give this another shot).

What on earth didn't you like about the ULTRA??

Everything any guitarist could ever want is in the Axe FX ULTRA .....maybe you didn't spend enough time with it? It's the best piece of gear I've ever owned and well worth every penny. I've only scratched the surface of what it's capable of and I couldn't be happier!!

In any case the AXE FX II isn't a quantum leap...in fact it's just a fine tuning of some the outboard functions (like adding USB transfer functionality instead of MIDI, which IS very welcome) and added memory for more fx at one time. I didn't see the need for the added memory ....I mean how many fx do you really need at one time, in one preset?

 

[ryjan]

Do the DI boxes that use a lead from your speaker output sound better than the Record Outs on your Triaxis? I'm really hesitant of putting anything inline to my speakers because of the possibility of damage to the tranny if the speaker load goes haywire.

 

[MesaGod666]

Do the DI boxes that use a lead from your speaker output sound better than the Record Outs on your Triaxis? I'm really hesitant of putting anything inline to my speakers because of the possibility of damage to the tranny if the speaker load goes haywire.

That was my concern as well, but Palmer was pretty reassuring (albeit wrong) that their product had a superior dummyload and it wouldn't damage the power-amp. We all know how THAT worked out.

What on earth didn't you like about the ULTRA??

Everything any guitarist could ever want is in the Axe FX ULTRA .....maybe you didn't spend enough time with it? It's the best piece of gear I've ever owned and well worth every penny. I've only scratched the surface of what it's capable of and I couldn't be happier!!

I understand what everyone is raving about and that's why I'm going to give the Axe-Fx another shot but that's just it...during my first rodeo with the Axe-Fx it took way too much time to even remotely dial in a decent tone. At the time, the Axe-Fx ULTRA took me over 4 hours to find a halfway decent tone but was far obsolete in comparison to my TriAxis tone which only took me 30 minutes to dial in.

 

[Hellraiser6502]

I hear ya man...I've never been a rack geek and I don't have a clue why I've decided to finally take it on at my advanced age (46) but honestly...It's been FUN so far.

I think the KEY to mastering the ULTRA (or any rack gear) is patience and a willingness to spend the time needed to find that 'perfect pre-set'

As long as it is still fun....I'm in.

Good luck to you sir.

 

[MesaGod666]

UPDATE!

So, my friends at Savage Audio checked the power amp out and the tubes are toast, but the transformer is still in good shape! Should get a solid 5+ years out of it! The Triaxis is perfectly fine. Just change the tubes and I'm ready to go.

They said that the powertubes took the brunt of the abuse (which is understandable), but they said to be careful using the Palmer stuff because even stage volumes can blow speakers...but the Palmer will just take it until your amp fries up.

I'll let you all know how the next gig goes with the gear. I'm still buying another 2:Ninety just in case.

 

[elvis]

Happy to read it ended well. Good luck!

 

[MesaGod666]

Happy to read it ended well. Good luck!

Yeah. I'm happy that it's not as bad as everyone expected, but we'll see with a few days of some jamming how it holds up.

 

[Mister Joshua]

Thanks for posting this story. I'm glad everything worked out. I was totally unaware that using attenuators (or load boxes) voided the warranty or that this thing could happen. I did some research and it turns out that this is more common than i thought. I'm now researching other alternatives. Thanks again

Peace, Joshua

 

[MesaGod666]

I picked up the amp from the shop and it sounds good as new.

The guys at Savage Audio are the best.

 

[ando]

I picked up the amp from the shop and it sounds good as new.

The guys at Savage Audio are the best.

I'd be threatening Palmer with some action, personally. That's not even close to good enough. What's the use of a product that:

-might work
-definitely voids your warranty
-might destroy your gear
-might ruin a gig

??? :x

 

[MesaGod666]

I'd be threatening Palmer with some action, personally. That's not even close to good enough. What's the use of a product that:

-might work
-definitely voids your warranty
-might destroy your gear
-might ruin a gig

??? :x

I took action and told everyone what I know the Palmer can do to Mesa gear. It's really a 50/50 shot at getting your gear destroyed. Everyone should know that, but if it's worth destroying your gear to get an awesome DI tone directly from your amp, then have at it.

 

[ryjan]

Triaxis Record Out---->Quality Di Box---->Mixer.
Great tone and no way to damage your equipment.
Or use an iso cab.

 

[Triaxstasy]

Triaxis Record Out---->Quality Di Box---->Mixer.
Great tone and no way to damage your equipment.
....

+1

Even the cheapo Behringer Ultra-G sounds pretty decent this way!

 

[ando]

I'd be threatening Palmer with some action, personally. That's not even close to good enough. What's the use of a product that:

-might work
-definitely voids your warranty
-might destroy your gear
-might ruin a gig

??? :x

I took action and told everyone what I know the Palmer can do to Mesa gear. It's really a 50/50 shot at getting your gear destroyed. Everyone should know that, but if it's worth destroying your gear to get an awesome DI tone directly from your amp, then have at it.

Dude, you're a lot more accepting of things than I would be!