Trade your 6l6 for El34 right NOW !! Don't be afraid !!!!

[Metallicaseeker]

Hello Every one...I know that this subject is very "overtalked" (i do not know if this word exists heeheh)...but tubes are a part of the soul of our amps...so i a need to share this to you all, cause i'm very happy now with my amp!

I have 03 kinds of valves here...Stock 6l6 STR 440 , SED =C= 6l6 , SED =C= el34...

1) A few Differences between STR 440 and =C= 6l6 : The SED =C= is tighter , more articulated, the bass is almost the same , it sounds more real and have a sound more full and smoothier...the =C= is much better...but if you don't have money left, don't concern about it, cause even without it you have an excelent amp...

2) Now you have to ask me...why you tried the el34...??? Like Screamingdaisy said in another topic about 6l6 tubes "- With distorted tones I find it's hard to dial back the treble/sizzle (ie, top end detail). If I dial it back, it kills the tone. If I don't dial it back, it kills my ears." .... it was like i was watching me in a mirron, i think...cause when i stay beside the cab speakers , any place at all except in front of the speakers my 4x12 (2 v30 + 2 The governors) i like my sound, but if i stay exactly in front of the speakers, there is so Hi, so treble that it scratchs my tympanum inside my ears...and if i try to turn down the treable or the presence, my tone desappears...sooooooo, i put El34!

Conclusions!!!

a) CH1 : It really takes a hit...with the 6l6 tubes it is more ...hummmm....more full, and strong, havier...not more clean, cause the El34 are clean too, but its like if you were changing the clean/fat mode of the CH1, where clean is El34 and Fat is 6l6...this comparisson is not perfect, but you can have an idea...

b) CH2 : Hehehehehhehhehehehhehe, you have to try it...now it's perfect, and gess what!!!! The Mark 1 mode , i can use it now!!!!!hauhauahuahuhaud

c) CH3MY REASON) It's another amp, much more better!!! Now i can changing settings and do not loss a good tone, the amp is more logical and intuitive...YES, it's more INTUITIVE...if you put more bass, it gets bassier, not flubby...if you put more treble, it gets more hight not more sizzle...of course if you put it too hi you will heve the extremes...talking about extremes...the Extreme mode is really alsome, guys, it is not flubby anymore, not sizzle, it's strong ans much more usable than before, it's more easy now get Chunk and Chuga tones (It's a little liked Diezel Vh4 and Rectifiers kkkkk)...and now my sound is much more somooth...and the punch difference between 6l6 and el34 , i say to you...I'ts very little, less than the difference that you fell when you change the mark 2c to mark IV mode... But you can fix that easily, cause now you have more liberty and ease to setup your amp, and get the same punch without sacrifice your tone and your ears!!!

Sorry about the size of the topic...but read it all, cause it's TRUE, and now i see that this amp, was made to El34, cause with them the amp is really balanced, logical, intuitive, and YES, you can get any sound of it, from jeff back..to a brutal death metal sound with the new Extreme mode!!!!

 

[JOEY B.]

:wink:

 

[eudaimonia02912]

I hope Mesa reps read these threads, and, as a result, start selling the Mark Vs stock with EL34s.

(And, also, that they start selling Mesa-branded SED EL34s.)

 

[JOEY B.]

(And, also, that they start selling Mesa-branded SED EL34s.)

My NOS STR-442's are just that. Currently making some nice tone in my Electradyne, under warranty.

 

[rika_gd]

jeez..I have to try this :evil:

 

[litesnsirens]

I don't get why people rip on the sound of the 34's in the clean channel. Why is the Fender spank sound the standard. Personally I love the sound of the clean channel with the 34's, I'm not looking for that quack, in fact when I had the 6L6's in my amp I found I was rolling off the tone control on my guitar trying to get it to sound smooth and thick and had to spend most of my time on the neck pickup. Now the 34's have tamed the clean channel down for me and I have a lot more moving room. I don't think it's a hit unless you love that country spank... if you want a nice warm clean sound 34's are just fine.

 

[Metallicaseeker]

I don't get why people rip on the sound of the 34's in the clean channel. Why is the Fender spank sound the standard. Personally I love the sound of the clean channel with the 34's, I'm not looking for that quack, in fact when I had the 6L6's in my amp I found I was rolling off the tone control on my guitar trying to get it to sound smooth and thick and had to spend most of my time on the neck pickup. Now the 34's have tamed the clean channel down for me and I have a lot more moving room. I don't think it's a hit unless you love that country spank... if you want a nice warm clean sound 34's are just fine.

I agree with you, my CH1 is great to me right now...but we know that for the most of people, and that's why i put that in my review, cause i have to be honest and impartial, the Fender spank country clean sound is the best one...but the clean of the amp with EL34 is very good, just different from the "standart" :lol: ...

So, changing the focus a little bit...i sow many people talking about the sound that they got in a Mix be a lot better with El34...what do you think about it ? The tone that you got alone, at home, when you are in a band changes too much using 6l6, couse with 6l6 i loss the hi treble and the hi low frenquencis in mix... about the low frequencies, you think that your tone is very heavy and punchy, but in a mix, you lost a little bit of that...so what you think ?

 

[litesnsirens]

The 34's are way better in the mix for me in a band situation... but that's probably because I play classic rock. I think guys that play heavier stuff are probably playing in louder bands and they will get the girth they are looking for with the 6L6's. For classic rock though if I turned up loud enough to hear what the 6L's had to offer I was taking over the mix, getting dirty looks from my bandmates and actually realizing on my own that I was too loud. When I lower the volume to an acceptable level, you couldn't really feel that huge bottom end power anymore, and what I was left with was fine but not the way I was hoping it would sound with the band. The 34's for what I do cut through the mix and sound nice and smooth without having to overpower my band mates.

Someone else mentioned that Mesa should offer this amp off the shelf with 34's... personally if they did the testing and trained sales staff at their distributors they could offer both and the sales staff could have a floor model set up with each and by asking a few questions of the customer maybe help them decide if they are a 34 or a 6L type of player.

Country spank clean players and Heavy Metal players probably want the 6L's
Blues players could go either way depending on the tone they want and what channel they will primarily play in,
I would argue that jazz players may like the more mellow clean of the 34's but may also want 6L's if they want a brighter tone
and classic rock players are definitely going to want 34's

 

[golfnguitarz]

I go back and forth so much. I love the 6L6 clean. I don't think it sounds country, it just has more depth or sparkle or something. I like the growl and chug in channel 3 with the 6L6s. But if Mesa could just dedicate channel 2 to a pair of EL34's, it would be the end-all amp for me. Still, how cool is it that this amp pleases so many with a simple tube swap?

 

[Metallicaseeker]

The 34's are way better in the mix for me in a band situation... but that's probably because I play classic rock. I think guys that play heavier stuff are probably playing in louder bands and they will get the girth they are looking for with the 6L6's.

Sorry but i can't agree with you at all...Hetfield uses El34 on his Diezel...Mark Morton uses El34 on his Mark V...Metallica used Mark 2c as preamp in a Power Amp Marshall, what almost means that he used El34...so...the idea that el34 is hard rock and 6l6 is heavy metal is not right at all...i have a band...we cover metallica, megadeth, anthrax, pantera, ozzy and some black sabbath...and i preffer for sure, without doubt the El34 in my Mark V...

 

[litesnsirens]

I hear you but for me metallica and megadeth etc. are kind of the crossover (or pioneers) from the ac/dc sabbath classic rock to the really heavy metal stuff like dimmu borgir and that whole realm. I have to apologize but I come from an era where there was only one kind of rock and then you had disco, blues, jazz classical, country etc. Now if I understand it correctly there's death metal, black metal, and a bunch more I don't understand or listen too... But I know they are heavier than commercial types of heavy metal. I couldn't tell what bands fall into what category, and maybe it's a mistake to categorize the tubes by the genre, but I do have an ear for the genres I'm familiar with. So when I make those statements, its in general terms. The fact that you can list off a couple of players out of the hundreds of bands in those genres doesn't really prove me wrong. And to me all the bands that you are covering, would not be the kind of tone I think of when I think of the kind of music that you would shy away from 34's for. Although in each of those bands there are plenty of tunes where 6L's would probably sound great.

So what do you call metallica and megadeth? Is that just considered straight ahead "heavy metal"? Sorry I'm almost 50 I was a teen when zeppelin and queen and Floyd where all just hitting their stride. So you either liked rock and had your "disco sucks" t-shirt or you wore fancy shirts unbuttoned to your navel with a gold chain and drove your camero to the dance club.

Even so the bottom line is that it's more about the tone your going for, your more likely going to be going for the 6L tone if you are playing in the heavier bands. In the classic rock era Marshall ruled, hi- watt right behind. As things got heavier and mesa started gaining popularity, new types of tone were born and then taken to the extreme. So in the middle there is gonna be lots of crossover where some guys would use marshalls and some would use marks or rectifiers, maybe even in the same band. And I'm sure it's true today that guys playing in heavier types of bands may want their personal tone to be more of a 34 type tone, but I think they could do well in those bands even if they used 6l's. And hell before discovered the 34's I was sounding OK in my classic rock band with the 6L's, there were even a couple of songs that really appreciated the 6L's, but 90% of what we do sounds better with the 34's.

 

[Metallicaseeker]

I hear you but for me metallica and megadeth etc. are kind of the crossover (or pioneers) from the ac/dc sabbath classic rock to the really heavy metal stuff like dimmu borgir and that whole realm. I have to apologize but I come from an era where there was only one kind of rock and then you had disco, blues, jazz classical, country etc. Now if I understand it correctly there's death metal, black metal, and a bunch more I don't understand or listen too... But I know they are heavier than commercial types of heavy metal. I couldn't tell what bands fall into what category, and maybe it's a mistake to categorize the tubes by the genre, but I do have an ear for the genres I'm familiar with. So when I make those statements, its in general terms. The fact that you can list off a couple of players out of the hundreds of bands in those genres doesn't really prove me wrong. And to me all the bands that you are covering, would not be the kind of tone I think of when I think of the kind of music that you would shy away from 34's for. Although in each of those bands there are plenty of tunes where 6L's would probably sound great.

So what do you call metallica and megadeth? Is that just considered straight ahead "heavy metal"? Sorry I'm almost 50 I was a teen when zeppelin and queen and Floyd where all just hitting their stride. So you either liked rock and had your "disco sucks" t-shirt or you wore fancy shirts unbuttoned to your navel with a gold chain and drove your camero to the dance club.

Even so the bottom line is that it's more about the tone your going for, your more likely going to be going for the 6L tone if you are playing in the heavier bands. In the classic rock era Marshall ruled, hi- watt right behind. As things got heavier and mesa started gaining popularity, new types of tone were born and then taken to the extreme. So in the middle there is gonna be lots of crossover where some guys would use marshalls and some would use marks or rectifiers, maybe even in the same band. And I'm sure it's true today that guys playing in heavier types of bands may want their personal tone to be more of a 34 type tone, but I think they could do well in those bands even if they used 6l's. And hell before discovered the 34's I was sounding OK in my classic rock band with the 6L's, there were even a couple of songs that really appreciated the 6L's, but 90% of what we do sounds better with the 34's.

Litesnsirens , i respect your experience, your hole history that you say you have, but the only thing that i said is that we should not be so deterministic as you were. I just think that for the Mark V, the EL34 works better, but i think for the Mark IV the 6l6 worked better, is a question of amp structure...is not just a matter of tubes.

Another thing, when you speak about other bands more hevay , death metal etc...for exemple dimmu borgir...we can't reduce their tones just to Valves...there is a low tuning question and the vocal style for exemple and lot of other things to make their tone and genre so how can i say that is 6l6 or El34 ?

The best thing in the world is that we can try different things as we like...so we have to get out of this mentality that Marshall uses EL34 so EL34 is a valve to hard rock /Mesa Boogie uses 6L6 so 6L6 valve is a heavy metal one, think so is to think small and be drifting.

 

[Metallicaseeker]

HAHAAHHAHAHA Every one here!!! I, for the first time, played with my band using EL34 Tubes...NOW, I LOVE THEM AND MY AMP MORE THAN EVER!!!

My guitar was very presence and audible on the band, and the tone is the same that if you were playing alone in your house...it's very fat and "fullbodied", CHUNK and smooth...very good , i'm very very happy with my amp now !!!

Give EL34 a chance in and out of the mix...you will not regret hehehehhehehheh !!!

MY AMP RULESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!! :lol:

 

[Patrickt69]

You would think in this day and age that you would get that choice when you perchased this amp.I was told by the sales person that the Mesa Rep told him that you can run El's in the 2 outside socket's is this true

 

[cremona]

OT

Il just ad that with my c+ it sounds exactly like the and justice for all album with all 6l6 415 STR`s in there, the 4 6l6 simul combo gives the sizzel and monsterus bottom end bark and holow midrange, but in all honesty i think most people would prefere the sound with 6ca7`s in the outer sockets because it sounds smoother and cuts through better.

I like to have both options.

BTW The and justice for all album was all c+ (except shortest straw) but on some of the tracks james slaved the c+ into a stratgy 400 running all 6l6`s.

Just my two cents

 

[eudaimonia02912]

So what do you call metallica and megadeth? Is that just considered straight ahead "heavy metal"? Sorry I'm almost 50 I was a teen when zeppelin and queen and Floyd where all just hitting their stride. So you either liked rock and had your "disco sucks" t-shirt or you wore fancy shirts unbuttoned to your navel with a gold chain and drove your camero to the dance club.

For what it's worth, Metallica and Megadeth are both exemplars of "thrash metal", at least, in most of their albums. For example, Metallica's first five albums and last album are thrash, though Load, Reload, and St. Anger are something else.

 

[NR2112]

Just put an old quad of JJ EL34's i found in the mark last night, and I am impressed by the sound. works well in the band, and there is still a LARGE amount of low end to be had for sure. I wont be going back anytime soon

My experience. YMMV as they say :lol: