Tone Help

[Mungo Zen]

So I have had my Mark V for a while now and I am noticing some sounds that don't sit right, but given my play environment I was hoping to just explain what I am seeing and get some suggestions.

My main rig is currently just my Schecter Loomis (Active EMG 707's on Ash body) direct to my Mark V (4x 6L6). I do have a noise gate and several effect units I swap in and out, but primarily just guitar direct to amp. I have had moments of tonal bliss in all three channels with different guitars, but recently have had some concerns.

I will add right now that if I had my choice I would be using my Peavey cabinet, since it has turned out to sound great, but where my band practices, we end up using studio cabinets which are usually Marshalls. They can be 8 or 16 Ohm, and of varying quality.

My two concerns run around what I am hearing from Channel 1 and Channel 3.

In Channel 1 over the last 2 months I have noticed I am not getting a truly clean tone. No matter what I do it clips. I have used 5 or 6 different cabinets and always get the same issue. I checked the tubes and they all appear to be fine and plugged in properly. I spent a good 45 minutes flipping through settings and was unable to get a clean tone. My other guitarist plugs her Dual Recto in and gets a much cleaner sound than I do from the same cabinet.

In both channels I am also finding I am really bright. I have been dialing back the treble and presence, but if I go to far it sounds...dead I guess. The concern is at higher volumes you can hear the amp buzzing, just waiting to feedback. At a gig recently I was asked to turn the volume up repeatedly and ended up unplayable due to the high end saturation.

I have done some reading but this is new ground for me so I am unsure what applies to me and what doesn't.

So the questions I have to go with this are...

1 - Could this be a tube concern? Is it possible that there is an issue with one or more of them? Could that cause either concern?

2 - Would swapping to EL-34's help pull back the high end? I understand they add some warmth to the tone.

3 - Could the active pickups just be pushing too much? I really like the 707's in other amp/cab combo's I have played, but I am willing to try something else.

I appreciate any help on this. If there is something I haven't thought f, or another direction I could look, please let me know.

 

[fleeced]

A lot of questions there! ...

In Channel 1 over the last 2 months I have noticed I am not getting a truly clean tone. No matter what I do it clips. I have used 5 or 6 different cabinets and always get the same issue. I checked the tubes and they all appear to be fine and plugged in properly. I spent a good 45 minutes flipping through settings and was unable to get a clean tone. My other guitarist plugs her Dual Recto in and gets a much cleaner sound than I do from the same cabinet.

Clipping points to overload of gain ... - Have you tried keeping the gain sub 12o'clock and turning up the master to compensate? "Tweed" will give a soft clip when pushed a little (even just with humbuckers) - clean and fat are able to give sparkly clean tones all the way up the volume range (anything will clip when really pushed). Make sure you have the channel set to 90w (this gives the most clean headroom)

It could be the pickups too hot - but you should be able to dial this out by lowering the gain on the channel. Keep the bass/mid/treble at sensible levels too! On my Les Paul I lower the volume of the pickups a little for clean sounds, - less boomy, much clearer and no clips.

I'm assuming you're not running any boost effects into the clean channel? These could cause clipping if the input signal is too hot.

The V should easily blow the DR away when it comes to nice clean tones. Big time!
I'll answer the other points in a second post as my browser is doing something weird and not letting me see what I type at thebottom of this one!

 

[fleeced]

In both channels I am also finding I am really bright. I have been dialing back the treble and presence, but if I go to far it sounds...dead I guess. The concern is at higher volumes you can hear the amp buzzing, just waiting to feedback. At a gig recently I was asked to turn the volume up repeatedly and ended up unplayable due to the high end saturation.

1 - Could this be a tube concern? Is it possible that there is an issue with one or more of them? Could that cause either concern?

Standard Marshall cabs are not known for being overly bright, I actually play my V into a 1960 4x12 for gigs specifically because this takes away the ice-pick high frequencies that hurt the ears more at high volume. The V is bright with standard tubes though. You may be able to dial a lot of this out by lowering the high frequency EQ slider rather than just Treble. If not, I'm told that changing pre amp tubes for something "smooth" like a Tung Sol in V1 (and maybe V2 and V3) sorts out the ice-pick brightness.

1. If Ch1 is still clipping with the gain low and pickups turned down a little, it could be a tube problem - I would suspect pre amp tubes before power amp tubes unless this only happens a high volume.

The active pickups will cause the whole set up to be more firey at high volumes ... they're putting more in to start with which gets amplified through the chain. The gain and treble controls on the amp will affect this also - lower setting will negate some of this. >> Follows

 

[Scary]

As the volume goes up, the gain has to go down. I can get decent cleans out of the 10watt mode as long as I don't turn the gain up past halfway. That's in fat mode, Clean mode should in theory be 'cleaner' but brighter. Be careful of using too much treble, as that's also a source of gain.

Also, give Mesa/Boogie a call. You never know.

 

[fleeced]

2 - Would swapping to EL-34's help pull back the high end? I understand they add some warmth to the tone.

EL34's will give a different tone to the amp entirely ... some people love it .. some don't. It may take some of the brightness out, they can sound a lot "smoother". It's probably not going to affect the clipping though.

If you can't get rid of the clipping, try a different guitar with standard pickups to see if it cures it. If it does - at least you've isolated the problem. I'm pretty sure that lowering the gain should sort it though.

Let us know how you get on

 

[Mungo Zen]

I should have clarified, I have the Gain at 7-8, no where over 9 o'clock for sure in Channel 1.

I am going to be rehearsing on Sunday for a few hours so I will try and take some pics of my settings.

My Peavey is rated 300 watt, and the Marshalls are all 280 or 300. I tried using an 80 watt Wizard 4x12 but it was totally saturated at any volume. The cab would be great for a clean blues tone with all the speaker clipping. There was one Marshall I used which was really soft and warm sounding in all channels (I almost want to ask the dude if he will sell it), but it still had the clip which made me start thinking it was the amp and not the cabs (it was the 3rd or 4th cab I tried).

Yeah I guess it is possible it is a pre-amp tube, cause the settings I am using are not over the top. Most of my settings are under 12 o'clock. I will report back on Sunday if I can with my settings, and some more testing.

BTW thanks for the replies, it all helps =)

 

[phyrexia]

I think your pickups are causing your clean problem. Even with moderately hot passive pickups you can overdrive the clean channel by playing hard.

 

[Mungo Zen]

I know I am resurrecting a somewhat older post, but, I wanted to mention the fix that I had for this.

My main guitar is the Loomis which uses the EMG 707's. By doing the 18v mod (running 2 * 9V batteries in serial) it has allowed for more headroom from the guitar, meaning the pickups aren't causing clipping that was noticed before.

I am waiting for another Loomis to be delivered so I can have the guitars routed and I can seat the batteries properly...

 

[shogun]

i'd LOWER or ditch you're EMG's.. Keep the gain AND master really low on the clean channel, and balance the other channels to fit.. don't dial your tone in at a bedroom volume, do it at a gig volume, or relatively loud, and do it with ur speakers pointing at your face..