Thiele info & Advice Needed!!

[Monsta-Tone]

I've gotta say that I'm not really impressed with the Thiele cab so far.

When I got it from Joey, he told me that I would probably need to turn the treble down on my amp when I'm using it.

I find that the exact opposite is true. It seems to take all of the sparkle out of the amp.


I'm using it with a DC-3 combo that has an English made Celestion Vintage 30 in it. The cabinet has an EV in it.

I've been using it for about an hour and am thoroughly unimpressed so far. I've tried everything with the EQ and the Graphic EQ on the amp and nothing seems to liven it up. I've adjusted the Presence and Gain as well.

I am no stranger to Mesa amps, but have never used this particular extension cab.

I should also mention that it is a hardwood cab, I think the wood is Paduak, but am not sure. It's dark with pronounced grains.


Does anybody have any advice? We play mostly classic rock with some newer blues like Jonny Lang & KWS.

So far, the amp sounds stellar without the Thiele cab, so I'm thinking about slapping one of my C-90's or a Mojotone in it to see what that might do.

What do you guys think?????

 

[ursinus]

Theile cabs can be deceiving. If you are playing out with it, it will sound small on stage, but out in the audience, it will cut heads off. Also, record it and a/b it with other speakers and you will see a marked difference....

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I'm really thinking that maybe my amp just doesn't have the guts to push the EV.

While it is true that a 35 watt amp will sound almost as loud as a 100 watt amp, there is a definite difference in the amount of air movement and sheer percussive force available in a larger amp.

People can say what they want, I have A/B'ed the 100, 50, & 35 watt versions of these amps and there is a definite difference in thump.



As for the Thiele sounding smaller up close, I could see that. Our drumset is across the store from us and through a wall, but the cabinet still made the snare rattle.



What do you do about the tonal qualities that you hear onstage? Does it bother you that it doesn't sound the same or do you notice a difference at all?

Thanks for the input.

 

[Boogiebabies]

Padauk is a very open grained wood and is naturally red.
It's a very nice harwood, but I dont have any idea how it would sound as a cab. I have a Boogie Headshell in Padauk and it's incredibly nice.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I just looked at the cabs on Mesa's website. It looks the most like Imbuya to me.

It is stunning to look at, but I really think that it's the EV that I don't like.



Ursinus,
I just noticed that your cabs have the C-90's in them. I might try that. I have a good stockpile of speakers, and there just happens to be 2 C-90's in there.

Have you tried one with an EV? If so, what were your thoughts?

 

[ursinus]

One of my theiles originally came with the EV, but I swapped it with the C90 in my combo so that I could compete easily with other amps when I use the 6v6 power tubes. At a recent jam session, I played with 2 other guitarists, a bass player and a drummer and a nice PA. The other guitarists had a Heritage Briton witha 2x12 cab and a Cornford Hellcat with a 2x12 cab. I was easily louder and more defined than the other two. I had my master at about 4 1/2 and my channel masters about 5-6. The EV is a very efficient speaker that is clear. NO mud at all. My amp was not elevated at this jam and I only used a couple of pedals in front. I didn't take my rack or thieles. I also have been experimenting in my home studio and the EV sounds much clearer and bell like, but with a very broad frequncy range. The C90 is still a nice speaker, but it is more "woofy" when I record with it. I little more unclear in the lower frequencies. I like to use the C90's for rock rythm, the EV for cleans and a mixture of both for leads. Hope that helps. BTW I am going to buy two more unloaded theiles in the near future and put some used EV's in them so I can mix and match as I need to.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

EVM 12L's in general are pretty pure. What you hear is an accurate reproduction of the amps tone(s) and ones playing. Mistakes as well as good playing become apparent for better or worse.

This is another thing that I had considered, and it is the main reason that I was thinking of changing speakers and trying it out.


From my experience, some speakers actually sound incredible when mixed. The Vintage 30/Heritage 30 or Vintage 30/Greenback combos sound really good with a decent amp.



The EV just seems to sound really dark and unbendable if that makes sense. I have grown accustomed to, and thoroughly enjoy a little speaker breakup. I think that it can add a lot of depth to the amp if the right speaker and speaker breakup are used.

 

[Restless Rocks]

Have you checked to be sure that your cab is in phase with the combo speaker? You would have to pull the back off the cab and make sure the white wire is going to the positive + (red) terminal on the EV and that the celestion is also wired the same otherwise you would be getting a pretty funky flangey type sound with many frequencys canceling out especially the bottom. The EV loaded Theile under a celestion is a very popular combination.

 

[phyrexia]

And I can't see how you can say the EV is dark compared to the V30. I've never heard them together but I've heard both separately and I don't think they'd sound good together.

 

[tommyhawk13]

Just a thought:
What is the impedence you are plugging the Thiele into? 8, or 4?

Have you tried the cab with the combo speaker unplugged?

 

[jvk]

I love the way exotic hardwoods like Bubinga and Imbuya look. I was very close to buying some Imbuya timber to build a few cabs using my new dovetail jig, but decided against it. Imbuya comes from the Amazon, which is fast disappering... the Brazilian government is a joke, even after they announced that they'd fund projects which encourage renewable timber sources, and told the world how they'd put more resources into fighting illegal logging, nothing has happened. The rate of deforestation is only marginally less than the 70s and 80s. Apparently over half of exotic wood supplies come from illegal logging. European hardwoods are expensive here in the UK...

Hijacked!

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Thanks for all of the advice guys.


Thiele without the V30 - sounds really good, but less sizzle than the V30. More bass and definitely more clarity.

The "Dark" sound was attributed to the differences in mid frequency response between the speakers. The V30 definitely has more mids than the EV.


Speaker is wired correctly, but I have not bumped the speakers yet to determine if they truly are the same polarity.


The cab is 8 ohms. I used the 8 ohm jack when playing with just the cab. The 4 ohm jacks were used when playing with both speakers.



Surely I can't be the 1st person who has had this problem.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I checked the polarity of the speakers and they are both correct.

This is perplexing.


I'm basically thinking that either the 2 speakers don't like each other or the amp does not have enough headroom to really push the EV.

I've noticed that most guys who use the EV have larger amps, primarily the Mark series.

 

[Russ]

ursinus pushes 2 just fine with 6V6's. Your DC-3 should do just fine.

 

[PRS-Ian]

I don't think its a case of the amp not having the headroom, I use a 18W EL84 loaded amp into two Mesa EV loaded cabs, one open backed, the other a thiele, with no problems. However, I once had a blue stripe Mk3 with a celestion and was unimpressed - it didn't stay with me long.
Ian

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I'll mess around with it a little more this afternoon. It could be that the amp isn't working properly too. I got a batch of bad tubes in, I think that they may have been damaged in transit.


I also plan on experimenting with different speakers in the combo itself, and maybe trying a C-90 in the Thiele.

I have to be at the store tomorrow and have nothing to do if nobody comes in, so it gives me plenty of time to play with it.


Thanks guys, if you have any other advice, please keep it coming.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I didn't get the chance to mess with it today, will have to make it my mission for tomorrow.

Please let me know if there are any more suggestions. I'm using a great speaker cord, 14 guage Horizon with Switchcraft plugs. I also tried it with a PRS McCarty and a US Strat Deluxe with Rio Grandes in it, so it's not like I'm using a crappy epiphone and a guitar cord to hook it up.

 

[Russ]

Try the Thiele with a 4x12 cab too.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Try the Thiele with a 4x12 cab too.

I'll give it a try, but so much for the ease of portabillity. I've been lugging a 6-12 (old Sunn cab that rocked!!!!) or a 4-12 cab for so long now, it's not even funny. I think I'm kind of over the 1/2 stack thing.



I'm gonna try the C-90 today and see what happens.


Has anybody here tried any other speaker in the cab?


Also, why do they call it the 'Thiele' cabinet? Is that the guy who designed it or something?

 

[Monsta-Tone]

:lol: :lol: :lol: I figured it out.

This little amp has so much potential and it has given me so many problems.

When I 1st got it, the entire footswitching circuit, LDR's, 4N33's & transistors were shot. It would change channels when it wanted, and when I would turn on the EQ with the footswitch, it would always switch back to the clean channel.

It didn't look like it had been used much from looking inside. The power tube board is in great shape, with no lifted traces. The last DC-3 I owned had severe damage to the power tube board from overheating, which is a common problem on these amps.




I was finally able to crank it today, my wife took the kids to the grocery store and left me alone in the music store.

3 of the 6 new jj 12ax7's were bad, they had really low gain and just didn't sound good with both cabs, but sounded pretty good with just the V-30 in the combo cab.

After replacing these, the amp still sounded like it was missing something. I found a bad plate resistor on V1, it was only letting 88 volts through when the drawings called for 150 volts DC. This was my problem.




Now, the cabinet screams. I need to replace the V-30 though because it has developed a serious buzz.

Ebay, sometimes you score, and sometimes they score on you.



Thanks for all of your help guys, I knew that something wasn't right. I figured that if so many guys loved the Thiele, there had to be something to it.