The Roadster Blues...

[Chester]

The 25 watt Rectoverb combo looks amazing and the trim is really attractive. The sound clips are also great and it is definitely a fantastic small format amp for people who don't require halfstacks.

Or look at something like the DC Series. 2 CH with various power options at very low used prices ... and keep the Roadster for a while as you learn to dial it in ... the strategy worked for me in turning my love / hate relationship with the MKV into infatuation :mrgreen:

 

[Melodyman]

I simply refuse to boost a high-gain head, and even if I did want to try it I don't own any pedals and don't want to invest in any - I'd much rather get an amp to do what I want it to without having to introduce more elements into my signal chain.

Sell the amp imo

 

[Apoc]

A little update:

I was set on selling the amp and I responded to an ad for an EVH 5150 III 1x12 cab, brand new, for a really good price. I had tried out the amp at a store not too long ago and found it to do everything I want/need, even at low volumes. I figured I'd scoop up the cab and as soon as my Roadster sold (been posted online for a bit now) I'd pick up a used EVH 5150 III mini head.

I get there and play the seller's 5150 III (full sized) head through both his matching 1x12 and 4x12 separately, and realized how much of a difference the size/design of cabs makes. I loved the amp through the 4x12, and the 1x12 sounded good too, but with much more of that white-noise that I hate.

Anyhow, I get back home, plug into my Roadster, and turn it up to match the volume level that I had just experienced at the seller's place (big empty basement) and low and behold, the Roadster, even with the aforementioned softer retune, sounded B R U T A L in ch. 4, shimmery in channel 1, and just ridiculously full in channel 3 vintage. I couldn't believe it…

I've learned the following: as per a forumite over at the Carvin Amp site once said, the Master Volume Knob = Maseter TONE Knob.

NOW, the volumes at which I have to play to awaken the beast are just borderline too loud for me. I'm going to have to experiment a little with the EQ and perhaps dropping the amp to 50 watts will do the trick. I'll keep y'all posted.

I'm now also considering a high-quality power attenuator. Any suggestions? I'll do search myself a little later on.

[EDIT: I never ended up buying that 1x12, but I did make a friend out of it so score none-the-less!]

 

[screamingdaisy]

For low volume playing I run my amps through a pair of 1x12s loaded with G12M-25s, which I believe are basically the same speaker as what's in the EVH cabs. They're lower efficiency and thus knock some volume off, plus the speakers high end gives better low volume detail than the stock V30s and remove some of the sterile sound.

Oddly, I thought about recommending the option to you but I didn't really want to present ideas that would cost more money trying to save an amp you were unsure about keeping.

If I remember correctly running a Recto in variac drops the output to around 70w, so by conjecture half power mode should drop it to around 35w. Variac obviously changes the feel and sound of the amp, but at low volumes I feel the change is for the better.

 

[YellowJacket]

Oh geez, I'm not going to talk about how much money I wasted chasing low volume recto tone! :lol:
Suffice it to say it was a lot!
I've tried buying different cabs, building my own cabs, different speaker combinations (Even a pair of G12m Heritage =-o ) yellow jackets (hence my SN) pulling two tubes. These stupid things are just designed to be played loud. They ROAR at gig level and they buzz, fart, and fizz at low volumes. It sucks, SUCKS SUCKS!!!

If you want to sink more money into this thing, I'd say swap one Mesa v30 out for a Mesa c90. This will smooth out the high end in a really nice way. It will be much smoother and less buzzy sounding.

Cabs: At the end of the day, Mesa cabs always sound best with a Mesa amp. Period.

Speakers: Mesa amps always sound best with their speakers. A notable exception to this is greenbacks as Screamingdaisy mentioned. A 4 x 12 loaded with G12m 25 reissues and G12H 30s would be interesting.
Lower efficiency speakers lower the volume slightly which is very helpful in a live situation but does not help with bedroom playing much.

Yellowjackets: Sound great but change the character of the amp. The best way to use them is to turn the gain way down and turn the master up until the EL 84s clip. Then it sounds awesome. Totally different tone though.

At the end of the day, the biggest tone problem is a lack of speaker excursion. You need about 1 watt (100db at 1 metre) through each speaker to get that open sound and at that point, it is already prohibitively loud for your situation. An attenuator won't help with this, sorry. Attenuators are best for when you want to clip the power tubes for crunch.

So far my most workable solution has been using a 1 x 12 that I like the sound of. The RA 27" 1 x 12 sounds surprisingly good at low volumes and gets way better as it goes up. That being said, I use my Electra Dyne 75% of the time these days. It has a surprisingly good low volume tone given the reputation it has for being an absolute monster!

Sorry pal, but my advice is to at least try the mini recto and the Rectoverb 25 (And other options). You can try them with the matching 1 x 12 for home use and the 2 x 12 rectocab for any jamming or bigger gigs. You'll get a huge and similar tone to the Roadster (Although it isn't quite as wide and deep) and you'll be able to work with more manageable sound levels. The 10 watt option is great for lower volume playing!

 

[Chester]

If I remember correctly running a Recto in variac drops the output to around 70w, so by conjecture half power mode should drop it to around 35w. Variac obviously changes the feel and sound of the amp, but at low volumes I feel the change is for the better.

+1

I run my Roadster in Variac 100% of the time, loop bypassed, through a 4x12 and a 2x12 - outstanding feel and dynamics in a studio setting

 

[Heritage Softail]

To get a different tone than the Mesa DNA tone, I would say to leave the Roadster be. Lt it be great at being a Roadster.

A superb second amp that gets you crunchy Marshall mids and smoking blues tones is the UK made, old original DSL. They are cheap too. It is the most popular best sellin Marshall ever made for good reason. I picked up one for 700. Got it to be a wet amp and backup. Now it is my fav old rock and blues crunchy amp.

They are on back lines all across the country. Zillions recorded. Some good glass in it and a favorite boost and you have great cleans to metal.

Mesa is superb at being Mesa. Trying to squeeze something else out of a Mesa is just frustrating.

And as an added bonus, a Marshall / Recto blended rig sounds absolutely killer. Recto chug with Marshall mids is sonic perfection.

Good luck on the tone quest.

 

[YellowJacket]

A superb second amp that gets you crunchy Marshall mids and smoking blues tones is the UK made, old original DSL. They are cheap too. It is the most popular best sellin Marshall ever made for good reason.

Good advice. One of these through a Standard Rectocab = instant <3

 

[mikebat]

I got a Roadster head about 6 months ago.

At first, I was really happy, coming from a single channel Marshall. The cleans on the Roadster blew me away, and I figured I could find a dirty tone somehow.

For dirty tones, I initially tried the Spongy/variac mode. I could not find a setting that knocked me out. I turned up the gain and used modern...buzzy. Next I tried Raw with the gain full up, and that was dull and buzzy at the same time. I introduced a BB+ to the mix, and I got a little closer to acceptable.

I became really disillusioned that I had this high gain monster, but I needed a drive pedal to make it acceptable. I was convinced I had to sell it.

I drove down to the music store and tried a Royal Atlantic, and I liked it a lot. I tried a Marshall JVM410H, it had a good plexi sound on channel 2 orange mode, and there were plenty of options, like speaker voiced line out, midi etc. Not bad. But I had Marshalls for years....lastly I plugged in an Orange OR15 head. Wow! If that was a little louder, and had 2 channels....it could be a winner! I tried the EVH too...it was alright, but somehow it felt hair band-like....if that makes sense. Lots of sizzle, no steak?

I decided to give the Roadster another kick at the can. I used channel 4 in Vintage mode (100 watt), with the gain around 1-2 o'clock. With the master up around 11 o'clock....it sounded thick, responsive, and percussive. So, I tried Ch3 in Vintage (50 watt), I tried an old favorite setting, treble 0, mids and bass pretty much cranked and presence way way down. Not bad! A little tweaking and that could be a useful channel.

I have played live twice with these settings and rehearsed numerous times. Throwing in the BB+ to kiss the preamp a little on the occasions when a touch more glue is required....I am getting pretty close to being satisfied. I still find the attack a little over emphasized at times on single notes...but I am confident I can work my way around this with tweaks to tone knobs and picking technique.

In the end, it takes some help from the power tubes, because the pre amp gain alone is not satisfying to someone that likes Michael Landau, Robben Ford, Jimmy Herring, hell even Gary Moore. You need to turn the pre amp gain down a touch, and get those power tubes to start cooking.

To get this at lower volumes.....maybe the Rivera Rockcrusher Recording is an option. $800...but looks promising.


Live with it, try it in various situations...and if it just cannot get you where you want, sell it. There are lots of options.

p.s. if you like boutique style Marshall's....I was REALLY impressed with the Third Power RPO100.

 

[Big_Al]

What Mikebat said....good stuff.

I felt that my Roadster did not have enough gain. Did not turn the knob past 2:00 on Vintage and Modern (channel 3/4). Read a lot on the forum and figured it was not about over the top gain but then again seems like that is what I was wanting. Thought something was wrong with the Mesa, everyone always said there should be plenty of gain on tap. In the end I went with a Marshall JVM410h...over the top gain. New set of problems but nothing I could not handle.

Tried my Roadster the other night and still like it, just needs to be pushed a little. Glad I have both.

 

[Apoc]

Hey Everyone, thanks for all the replies. Lots of good stuff here. I'll address them all soon.

As it stands right now, I'm finding that there is no escaping that the amp simply needs to be turned up to come alive, and boy does it ever come alive with enough volume!

 

[YellowJacket]

BUY EARPLUGS :shock: :lol:

But yes, this is my frustration with Rectos as well. Seems the mini needs to be turned up less to get that phat sound although it doesn't sound quite as BIG as the 100watt heads do!

 

[screamingdaisy]

A big part of the "Recto" sound is the sound of the speakers punching you in the chest.

 

[ryjan]

I just had to re-learn this lesson as well.
I just moved into a new house and with the bank stuff, packing, and everything else my Roadster was left untouched for three weeks or so. When we finally got into the new house it took another 2 weeks to unpack and settle in enough to start clearing my corner of the basement out for the new and improved band rehearsal area. 8)
It's a large unfinished basement with concrete walls and floor so I was really chomping at the bit to hear what a Roadster half stack would sound like compared to the small room we used before. At first I thought something was broken because my tone was really fuzzy and had little punch or definition. After messing around, checking tubes, cables and what not I figured out that I had the master volume way down. Either the new basement or not hearing my amp for so long altered my perception of what "loud" was. As soon as I cranked it up the Roadster roared back to life (all the natural reverb and air from the concrete helped too).
Trying to play that monster at bedroom volumes would be quite painful. There's no way to make a Recto sound good without volume and speaker movement. If I was restricted to low volume I'd sell my Roadster in a second and buy a little practice or modeling amp. This is where a Pod HD or Fractal unit would really shine too. They sound awesome at low volume and you can run them into PA speakers if you ever jam with a band.

 

[Apoc]

If you want to sink more money into this thing, I'd say swap one Mesa v30 out for a Mesa c90. This will smooth out the high end in a really nice way. It will be much smoother and less buzzy sounding.

Yellowjackets: Sound great but change the character of the amp. The best way to use them is to turn the gain way down and turn the master up until the EL 84s clip. Then it sounds awesome. Totally different tone though.

At the end of the day, the biggest tone problem is a lack of speaker excursion. You need about 1 watt (100db at 1 metre) through each speaker to get that open sound and at that point, it is already prohibitively loud for your situation. An attenuator won't help with this, sorry. Attenuators are best for when you want to clip the power tubes for crunch.

Sorry pal, but my advice is to at least try the mini recto and the Rectoverb 25 (And other options). You can try them with the matching 1 x 12 for home use and the 2 x 12 rectocab for any jamming or bigger gigs. You'll get a huge and similar tone to the Roadster (Although it isn't quite as wide and deep) and you'll be able to work with more manageable sound levels. The 10 watt option is great for lower volume playing!

Thanks for the suggestions. I won't be swapping out any speakers as I just don't have the know-how and the smoothness is all there now after the re-tube. When I hear clips of the Roadster on YouTube it sounds totally different than mine does now with the JJ's in it; no buzzing. I'm actually dialling in some good stuff in the vintage ch 3 and clean modes. Still on the fence about the modern ch 4 though, which is really the main reason, aside from the perceived versatility, why I bought the amp in the first place!

Yeah, I need to crank this sucker quite a bit to get it to really come alive. It's the nature of the beast. Attenuator won't help, eh? That sucks.

I've had the Roadster for sale for a couple of months now and it's getting no real bites. IF I'm able to sell it, I'll definitely look into the Mini Recto's and also the Engl Ironball.

 

[Apoc]

Do you get to use your Roadster loud? Or do you need to limit its volume?

Try using 50w with the tube rectifiers and variac mode. Give it a bit until you get a feel for it and avoid A/Bing it against full power modes (full power will be louder and when doing comparisons the mind perceives louder as better).

I flipped it into Variac mode the other day and it really did sound great. I'm going to play with this some more... I have yet to power down to 50 watts, but I'll try that too.

 

[Apoc]

To get a different tone than the Mesa DNA tone, I would say to leave the Roadster be. Lt it be great at being a Roadster.

A superb second amp that gets you crunchy Marshall mids and smoking blues tones is the UK made, old original DSL. They are cheap too. It is the most popular best sellin Marshall ever made for good reason. I picked up one for 700. Got it to be a wet amp and backup. Now it is my fav old rock and blues crunchy amp.

They are on back lines all across the country. Zillions recorded. Some good glass in it and a favorite boost and you have great cleans to metal.

Mesa is superb at being Mesa. Trying to squeeze something else out of a Mesa is just frustrating.

And as an added bonus, a Marshall / Recto blended rig sounds absolutely killer. Recto chug with Marshall mids is sonic perfection.

Good luck on the tone quest.

I do like the DSL, but I think I would find myself tweaking it too much to try to get that Mesa vibe out of it! I REALLY like the Stiletto series, and I was offered a trade for my Roadster: Trident plus 1936 Marshall 2x12, but that' just too many tubes and watts for me.

Going back to the DSL, I find that it has these raspy overtones that really hurt my ears. After a while I get the cotton in the ear feeling. I just can't 'stomach' too much Marshall DSL.

 

[Apoc]

Good advice. One of these through a Standard Rectocab = instant <3

What does "instant <3" mean?

 

[Apoc]

I got a Roadster head about 6 months ago.

At first, I was really happy, coming from a single channel Marshall. The cleans on the Roadster blew me away, and I figured I could find a dirty tone somehow.

For dirty tones, I initially tried the Spongy/variac mode. I could not find a setting that knocked me out. I turned up the gain and used modern...buzzy. Next I tried Raw with the gain full up, and that was dull and buzzy at the same time. I introduced a BB+ to the mix, and I got a little closer to acceptable.

I became really disillusioned that I had this high gain monster, but I needed a drive pedal to make it acceptable. I was convinced I had to sell it.

I drove down to the music store and tried a Royal Atlantic, and I liked it a lot. I tried a Marshall JVM410H, it had a good plexi sound on channel 2 orange mode, and there were plenty of options, like speaker voiced line out, midi etc. Not bad. But I had Marshalls for years....lastly I plugged in an Orange OR15 head. Wow! If that was a little louder, and had 2 channels....it could be a winner! I tried the EVH too...it was alright, but somehow it felt hair band-like....if that makes sense. Lots of sizzle, no steak?

I decided to give the Roadster another kick at the can. I used channel 4 in Vintage mode (100 watt), with the gain around 1-2 o'clock. With the master up around 11 o'clock....it sounded thick, responsive, and percussive. So, I tried Ch3 in Vintage (50 watt), I tried an old favorite setting, treble 0, mids and bass pretty much cranked and presence way way down. Not bad! A little tweaking and that could be a useful channel.

I have played live twice with these settings and rehearsed numerous times. Throwing in the BB+ to kiss the preamp a little on the occasions when a touch more glue is required....I am getting pretty close to being satisfied. I still find the attack a little over emphasized at times on single notes...but I am confident I can work my way around this with tweaks to tone knobs and picking technique.

In the end, it takes some help from the power tubes, because the pre amp gain alone is not satisfying to someone that likes Michael Landau, Robben Ford, Jimmy Herring, hell even Gary Moore. You need to turn the pre amp gain down a touch, and get those power tubes to start cooking.

To get this at lower volumes.....maybe the Rivera Rockcrusher Recording is an option. $800...but looks promising.


Live with it, try it in various situations...and if it just cannot get you where you want, sell it. There are lots of options.

p.s. if you like boutique style Marshall's....I was REALLY impressed with the Third Power RPO100.

Yeah, it's funny: I find myself trying out other amps and then coming home to play the Roadster and it just sounds better than I remember it. Who knows, maybe I'm just being OCD about this, i.e. intensely focusing on all the negatives, and need to wake the f@##$k up and realize that I have a monster of an amp sitting at home waiting for me. Or perhaps I just don't like this kind of monster. Also, to complicate things, I've found that some of the 'new' Roadsters in the stores sound far, far worse than mine. I'm thinking it's a worn tube issue. I REALLY need to do a good side-by-side with MY amp and other candidates.

 

[Apoc]

I just had to re-learn this lesson as well.
I just moved into a new house and with the bank stuff, packing, and everything else my Roadster was left untouched for three weeks or so. When we finally got into the new house it took another 2 weeks to unpack and settle in enough to start clearing my corner of the basement out for the new and improved band rehearsal area. 8)
It's a large unfinished basement with concrete walls and floor so I was really chomping at the bit to hear what a Roadster half stack would sound like compared to the small room we used before. At first I thought something was broken because my tone was really fuzzy and had little punch or definition. After messing around, checking tubes, cables and what not I figured out that I had the master volume way down. Either the new basement or not hearing my amp for so long altered my perception of what "loud" was. As soon as I cranked it up the Roadster roared back to life (all the natural reverb and air from the concrete helped too).
Trying to play that monster at bedroom volumes would be quite painful. There's no way to make a Recto sound good without volume and speaker movement. If I was restricted to low volume I'd sell my Roadster in a second and buy a little practice or modeling amp. This is where a Pod HD or Fractal unit would really shine too. They sound awesome at low volume and you can run them into PA speakers if you ever jam with a band.

I actually have a Roland Micro Cube at home, but with a busted AC adapter. I'll go get that replaced soon and fire it up again. I do remember really liking the feel of that little modeller.